12:19:48 <Sompi> Now even Twitter has stopped working on Seamonkey...
14:29:52 <tomman> and nothing of value has been lost
14:30:00 <tomman> seriously, don't use the Musknet™
14:30:23 <tomman> if you absolutely MUST READ contents on the Musknet™, use xcancel.com or any of the few surviving Nitter instances
14:30:45 <tomman> I can't believe people refuse to abandon that sinking ship of hate
14:33:37 <tomman> https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?p=261490#p261490 oh gawd, Crimeflare is Crimeflaring browsers again
14:33:45 <tomman> why I have this faint feeling of deja-vu?
14:33:57 <tomman> </sarcasm>
14:34:24 <tomman> also, "We test on production, like REAL MEN DO"
15:34:49 <njsg> Sompi: for a long time I haven't even bothered, wasn't TSNFKAT broken in SeaMonkey for months already?
15:35:19 <njsg> Sompi: nitter has made a comeback but given recent comments here, they're moving behind CAPTCHAs, which I assume means ECMAScript
15:36:56 <njsg> tomman: I'd start by holding some political parties and organizations to the standards they ought to have, like doing most of their public communication via TSNFKAT or Zuckerberg's media when their own positions would point towards the opposite of that
16:02:39 <tomman> LOLOL Meta
16:02:56 <tomman> the Whatsapp site blocks SeaMonkey with a misleading "Something happened" error page
16:03:02 <tomman> ...and a HTTP 400 Bad Request error
16:10:16 <njsg> you mean they might be teapots?
16:35:06 <njsg> hm... at least in one mastodon web interface, having the find bar open seems to increase CPU activity, now am I seeing things...
16:45:49 <tomman> and found my next bank account to close: Venezuela's Banco Mercantil now wants static class members
16:46:02 <tomman> > SyntaxError: expected property name, got '{'
16:46:10 <tomman> turns out this renders their online banking inaccessible to me
16:46:23 <tomman> ...yay, it will be SO FUN to close that account
16:46:28 <tomman> I hated that bank anyway
16:46:39 <tomman> ...the bank that demands Chromeisms but still runs XP on their ATMs :D
17:42:42 <Sompi> Many web servers nowadays just return the "400 Bad Request" error when the user agent string is something else than Chrome or Firefox...
17:53:00 <tomman> error codes? Who even check those these days?
17:53:05 <tomman> See: Discourse's "500 OK"
18:00:24 <Sompi> and also now Finlex changed to the new version of the site that does not work properly if the browser is not Firefox or Chrome
18:00:41 <Sompi> so now no-one can read Finnish law anymore, without a non-free browser
18:01:40 <Sompi> I contacted Oikeusministeriö about it but seems that they just don't care
18:02:22 <Sompi> I sent this message to them: http://paste.dy.fi/LBy/plain
18:02:40 <Sompi> So they just don't care about accessibility at all
18:34:58 <tomman> the law is tech illiterate
18:35:15 <tomman> they only know about sending bribes, er, project investment to 3rd party contractors
18:35:45 <Sompi> btw, how does Seamonkey's JavaScript engine work? Does it compile everything to the native code or to a platform-independent bytecode?
18:35:49 <tomman> it's like that time I had to call the banking regulator when Clownflare blocked me from my owen money
18:36:00 <tomman> --own
18:36:16 <tomman> Sompi: it's still Spidermoney under the hood
18:36:29 <Sompi> I was blocked from my own money by Danske Bank because I didn't use Windows and Chrome... and they literally told me to use those or else it won't work
18:36:40 <Sompi> So even Firefox is not supported
18:36:49 <tomman> ha, not even "Linux and Chrome"?
18:36:54 <Sompi> Nope
18:37:08 <Sompi> And nothing like that was mentioned in the contract when my account was created to that bank
18:37:17 <Sompi> Otherwise I would have chosen a different bank
18:37:30 <tomman> and that's the sound of me withdrawing all of my money, closing my accounts, and leaving my cards burning at the branch doors
18:37:56 <Sompi> They didn't let me close my account because the service fees caused the balance to go negative
18:38:11 <Sompi> So I just abandoned it and hopefully it doesn't cause me problems in the future
18:38:34 <Sompi> They broke the contract, not me
18:39:48 <Sompi> tomman: I don't know how SeaMonkey's JavaScript engine works. But if it uses bytecode, that makes it immune to CPU bugs like Meltdown and such
18:40:33 <Sompi> Firefox was affected
18:40:35 <tomman> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpiderMonkey
18:40:56 <tomman> Well, do remember that for exploiting Meltdown and friends, you need extremely targeted (and unreliable!) attacks
18:41:15 <tomman> I stopped caring, live with the flow, and mitigations=off because Intel won't buy me a new PC :)
18:41:35 <tomman> and on older metal, the performance loss from the mitigations CAN be noticeable
18:42:02 <tomman> now, you should worry on, say, shared webhosting or VPS
18:42:19 <tomman> because one of the avenues of exploitation for these CPU flaws are VMs
18:42:33 <tomman> (again, extremely targeted and unreliable, but theoretically possible)
18:43:47 <tomman> OK, after reading that, we're still using IonMonkey as their JIT
18:44:09 <tomman> Firefox upstream moved to WarpMonkey by FF83, but it's still a JIT
18:44:12 <tomman> it has always been a JIT
18:44:32 <Sompi> So it can use native instructions on ARM and x86 but also supports pure bytecode?
18:45:06 <tomman> no, the end result is always native code, which is generated from intermediate bytecode
18:46:47 <Sompi> So it isn't platform-independent?
18:47:42 <tomman> that's the nature of JITs - you still need a platform-dependant backend to generate the native code that the CPU ends running
18:47:48 <Sompi> It seems to be partly written in Rust so it cannot be platform-independent anyway
18:47:54 <tomman> the intermediate bytecode CAN be platform-agnostic
18:48:12 <tomman> but without a native code generator... it's useless, and you might as well fallback to a pure interpreter
22:48:04 <njsg> Sompi: but did OM reply to you that they did not care, or did you not get a reply at all?
22:52:11 <njsg> Sompi: there's one entity which has not responded to my message yet, but it might be because they're using the new webmail from MICROS~1
23:23:50 <Sompi> I did not get reply at all
23:29:37 <njsg> it's amazing how these days e-mail starts getting less reliable once it hits MS or Gmail...
23:29:53 <njsg> (so far, I'd say my experience is that MS is quite worse in this regard)