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nsITobinand forcing my self to not shrug off what would be refered to as trivial mistakes
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nsITobinand bad judgement
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nsITobinat the tail end of the 2010s
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nsITobinwelcome back tomman
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nsITobin
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nsITobinTracking issue for CF issues on rpmo
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nsITobinI learned them .. too well
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Ximoclownflare strikes again
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tomman"Clownflare Siege, Day 46"
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tommanthe latest HN thread cooled down even before warming up
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tommanin the meanwhile, the Clownflare Agent is hellbent at having their demands met - they're now demanding a timeline to implement some of the missing features
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nsITobina timeline from MCP
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nsITobinlol
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tommanso far there hasn't been any approach to any of the other affected browsers, other than a vague promise of establishing a sort of "Trusted Browser" crapola program
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nsITobinit was a fuckin war to get a consistant release schedule
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tommannsITobin: let's be realistic, no FOSS project like ours can get anywhere near a timeline
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tommanthat's like asking cows to produce cheese
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nsITobinthey may be able to pull it off but tehre would be fallout and consiquences if pushing that fast
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tommanand that's exactly what Clownflare is now demanding, because they firmly believe that any "concession" they make on our browsers will "weaken" their mafia product
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tommanagain, a Ukraine vs. Trump situation
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nsITobinDon't
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nsITobindo not equate MCP with Ukraine
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tommanI'm bagging ALL OF US, not just PAle Moon
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tommanwe're the victims here, remember?
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nsITobinYeah
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nsITobinwe have been for a long time
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tommanAnyway, the situation remains at a stalemate, and negotiations have proved to be a farce where Clownflare wants to keep their pie ANd eat it
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nsITobinBut I think it is a trap. There is a narative that has been building past year that non-corperate backed open source cannot be trusted and the worth of a project is dependant on how many people contribute rather than output produced
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tommanyep, that's the Silly Con Valley mindset
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tommanwhere FOSS without a monetization path is basically Soviet malware
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nsITobinPale Moon is not any kind of entity and the most hostile mozilla related group this side of NT6
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nsITobini fear they will be played
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tommanand if your project is not backed by big VC capital, then it's irrelevant and should not be used, EVER
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tommanI find amusing that the latest stupid rumour there is "Apple will buy Ladybird eventually" just because the Ladybird dev uses Apple tech like Switft
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nsITobinthat could be a self fullfilling prophacy tho
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nsITobinhype about it would get apple's attention
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tommanmaaaaaaaaybe... in 10 years, when Ladybird becomes a relatively complete product?
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nsITobini am sure apple is kinda over their hard stolen khtml code driving google and microsoft's control of web standards
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tommanbut why Apple would ditch Webkit after pouring decades of manpower and billions of dollars on it?
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nsITobinwhy is mozilla dropping every Netscape and early Mozilla technology just line by line?
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nsITobinover a decade
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nsITobinand a half
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tommanha, the complaint I hear usually is "Apple is holding the web back with Safari because it doesn't innovate as fast as Chrome"
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tomman(it doesn't indeed help the illegal MICROS~1-esque monopoly Apple has on their cellphones and non-computers with Safari)
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tommanphoronix.com/news/Theora-libtheora-1.2-Beta speaking about blasts from the past
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nsITobinI still think I caused this
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nsITobinall of it
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nsITobinthe cloudflare stuff
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nsITobinwhen I went to the whatwg and told them at the end I would use a XUL Browser to endrun their standards body just like they did to the W3C.. and well XUL Browsers are specifically under attack across the board.
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tommannah, Clownflare happened because they got blind by the Googlebux
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nsITobinyeah but this seige could be my fault
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nsITobinbecause all these companies conspire with each other
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nsITobinthe standards are just a pretense
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tommanthey just hate diversity (no, not the DEI one) because that's "extra work, yo"
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tommanit's the IE era all over again
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tommanexcept that Chrome is actually well liked because each release comes with new shiny toys for bored nerds
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tommanunlike IE which was basically medieval punishment
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nsITobintomman: I am pretty sure that's what I said during some moments of lucity when I was still raging about .. everything
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nsITobinlike in 2023
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tommanBasically the modern crop of webdevs see Chrome tech as the "eternal youth fountain"
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tommanand nothing else matters
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tommanit's like the web being the new OS (again because Chrome empowers that - Microsoft's approach with ActiveX was clearly the wrong one, and so it was Java)
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nsITobinthese modern web devs have to deal with a very dark world out their window
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nsITobingah I am running behind on things again...
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therubeuBlock Origin Legacy (uBO) security concerns
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therube
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therubein there is mentioned UCyborg's fork that seemly has ported the fix over
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therube(myself, i'll just live dangerously)
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therubeoh, & from what i recall, if i recall correctly ?, it does run in SeaMonkey
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nsITobintherube: and when was the last time someone checked if it STILL runs.. both UXP and 253 have breaking changes to extensions and it is difficult at best to target firefox and suite when it was on the same platform .. it may work MOSTLY but is it specifically cared for for seamonkey? That is what matters when it comes to Mozilla Extensions..
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therubecertainly not specifically catered for SM... but if someone wants to try...
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nsITobinwell it won't be me.. I'll fudge ABPrime over first
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therube
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tommantherube: we were discussing that earlier, but yeah, all I can see is a loooooooong stalemate
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tommanClownflare is not really willing to give us some margin, are they?
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tomman> Note that we may need to instrument anonymised aggregate traffic analytics for the PM UA as it is likely that bot developers would start leveraging this in nefarious ways.
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tommanit's all because The Bots™
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tomman(in the meanwhile you routinely see bot makers at Hackernews saying they can easily bypass all and any of Clownflare's antibot crapola)
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nsITobinyeah I noticed that
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tommanalso, the Clownflare dude really contradicts himself
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tomman"no, we don't rely on user agent strings to identify browsers"
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tomman"yes, we actually do"
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tomman"no, not really"
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tomman"but we may need to collect data"
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nsITobinwell he is doing ok on not being completely unreasonable and the community is doing a decent job backing up and supporting what is said while getting a jab in every so often.. But Moonchild's biggest weakness is he is not prepared for a long term showdown.. Eventually he may cave for an easier path for Just Them(tm) or break and play into the stratagy I think is at play.
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nsITobinif his fanfic skills start showing on what he is telling the community.. we will know..
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tommanand there is where we should enter
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tommanbecause once Clownflare is done chewing him, it's our turn next :/
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nsITobinMoonchild will have to step up and be the leader he so desperately wants to be which means looking out for more than your own shit.. This I believe is his test.. He has had more than enough time for some form of de-tobinization and retains every last benefit of it.. He has new contributors and the community seems on the same page.. what he DOES with it will determine a lot about the future..
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frg_AwayHi all. uBlock 1.16.6.0 is fine. Just updated from his previous beta.
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nsITobincool
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frg_AwayI usually test this and NoScript. If it were not for NoScript we would have more more backports but hold off. Wish someone would fork it. I applied some private fixes for obsolete stuff so far.
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frg_AwayAs for clownflare. Can we stop the discussion. It goes nowhere and becomes pointless. I rather would like to discuss SeaMonkey shortcomings or possible enhancements. Best if soneone even does them :)
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tommanoh,that reminds me
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tommanhow about pdf.js?
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tommandoes anyone have a newer compatible version I can install here?
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nsITobinis it an extension or a toolkit component?
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tommanI've been finding some PDFs that fail to render at all lately, including real ancient stuff from the mid '90s
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tommanbut then I'm using the final public release of a fork that just turned... what, five years old?
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tommanI'm amazed at the fact it still works without the need for fixes
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nsITobinwhich fork
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tomman
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frg_AwayIn theory we have newer code in our tree. I wanted to look into it for ages but...
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nsITobinwell this things should be on a list somewhere
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frg_Awayyes in the meeting notes
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nsITobinfor integrated pdf.js of course the normal fe code but also shellservice needs updated to be aware it is a target for pdfs
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nsITobinif i recall correctly hooks in content handler shellservice and glue
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nsITobinare needed
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nsITobinof course Mozilla handled it in a very strange way unlike any other previous or future bundled extension
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nsITobinthis extension is nothing like the code in-tree
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nsITobini am confused here
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frg_Awayyes was adapted to SeaMonkey with some stuff. One of the reasons we can't just bundle the integreted stuff 1:1
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nsITobinoh
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nsITobinthis shit is node generated then wrapped with a pseudo-extension
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nsITobinokay that makes sense
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nsITobin... so why didn't they just keep it like the code in browser?
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frg_AwayWanted to look into it for ages but it not something I personally want anyway so it gets moved to the next meeting and the next and ....
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frg_AwayI prefer opening suff in an external pdf reader.
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nsITobinsame
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nsITobinI don't understand how this node abomination produces a mozilla extension
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nsITobintomman: do you know anything about this?
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nsITobini don't think there is a way to gut and maintain this simpler .. someone is gonna have to lrn how to maintain this thing and conduct more backports
7 minutes ago