00:04:44 <nsITobin> and forcing my self to not shrug off what would be refered to as trivial mistakes
00:05:30 <nsITobin> and bad judgement
00:08:23 <nsITobin> at the tail end of the 2010s
01:44:19 <nsITobin> welcome back tomman
02:49:18 <nsITobin> https://repo.palemoon.org/MoonchildProductions/UXP/issues/2693
02:49:33 <nsITobin> Tracking issue for CF issues on rpmo
02:50:57 <nsITobin> I learned them .. too well
04:41:36 <Ximo> clownflare strikes again
14:04:53 <tomman> "Clownflare Siege, Day 46"
14:05:18 <tomman> the latest HN thread cooled down even before warming up
14:07:16 <tomman> in the meanwhile, the Clownflare Agent is hellbent at having their demands met - they're now demanding a timeline to implement some of the missing features
14:07:38 <nsITobin> a timeline from MCP
14:07:39 <nsITobin> lol
14:07:47 <tomman> so far there hasn't been any approach to any of the other affected browsers, other than a vague promise of establishing a sort of "Trusted Browser" crapola program
14:07:57 <nsITobin> it was a fuckin war to get a consistant release schedule
14:08:08 <tomman> nsITobin: let's be realistic, no FOSS project like ours can get anywhere near a timeline
14:08:18 <tomman> that's like asking cows to produce cheese
14:08:46 <nsITobin> they may be able to pull it off but tehre would be fallout and consiquences if pushing that fast
14:08:49 <tomman> and that's exactly what Clownflare is now demanding, because they firmly believe that any "concession" they make on our browsers will "weaken" their mafia product
14:09:02 <tomman> again, a Ukraine vs. Trump situation
14:09:11 <nsITobin> Don't
14:09:22 <nsITobin> do not equate MCP with Ukraine
14:09:33 <tomman> I'm bagging ALL OF US, not just PAle Moon
14:09:37 <tomman> we're the victims here, remember?
14:09:44 <nsITobin> Yeah
14:09:53 <nsITobin> we have been for a long time
14:10:24 <tomman> Anyway, the situation remains at a stalemate, and negotiations have proved to be a farce where Clownflare wants to keep their pie ANd eat it
14:11:26 <nsITobin> But I think it is a trap. There is a narative that has been building past year that non-corperate backed open source cannot be trusted and the worth of a project is dependant on how many people contribute rather than output produced
14:11:49 <tomman> yep, that's the Silly Con Valley mindset
14:12:00 <tomman> where FOSS without a monetization path is basically Soviet malware
14:12:09 <nsITobin> Pale Moon is not any kind of entity and the most hostile mozilla related group this side of NT6
14:12:20 <nsITobin> i fear they will be played
14:12:21 <tomman> and if your project is not backed by big VC capital, then it's irrelevant and should not be used, EVER
14:13:16 <tomman> I find amusing that the latest stupid rumour there is "Apple will buy Ladybird eventually" just because the Ladybird dev uses Apple tech like Switft
14:13:47 <nsITobin> that could be a self fullfilling prophacy tho
14:13:56 <nsITobin> hype about it would get apple's attention
14:14:38 <tomman> maaaaaaaaybe... in 10 years, when Ladybird becomes a relatively complete product?
14:14:50 <nsITobin> i am sure apple is kinda over their hard stolen khtml code driving google and microsoft's control of web standards
14:14:55 <tomman> but why Apple would ditch Webkit after pouring decades of manpower and billions of dollars on it?
14:15:26 <nsITobin> why is mozilla dropping every Netscape and early Mozilla technology just line by line?
14:15:29 <nsITobin> over a decade
14:15:31 <nsITobin> and a half
14:15:32 <tomman> ha, the complaint I hear usually is "Apple is holding the web back with Safari because it doesn't innovate as fast as Chrome"
14:16:06 <tomman> (it doesn't indeed help the illegal MICROS~1-esque monopoly Apple has on their cellphones and non-computers with Safari)
14:18:51 <tomman> https://www.phoronix.com/news/Theora-libtheora-1.2-Beta speaking about blasts from the past
14:27:13 <nsITobin> I still think I caused this
14:27:16 <nsITobin> all of it
14:27:21 <nsITobin> the cloudflare stuff
14:28:10 <nsITobin> when I went to the whatwg and told them at the end I would use a XUL Browser to endrun their standards body just like they did to the W3C.. and well XUL Browsers are specifically under attack across the board.
14:28:59 <tomman> nah, Clownflare happened because they got blind by the Googlebux
14:29:16 <nsITobin> yeah but this seige could be my fault
14:29:25 <nsITobin> because all these companies conspire with each other
14:29:39 <nsITobin> the standards are just a pretense
14:29:42 <tomman> they just hate diversity (no, not the DEI one) because that's "extra work, yo"
14:29:47 <tomman> it's the IE era all over again
14:30:09 <tomman> except that Chrome is actually well liked because each release comes with new shiny toys for bored nerds
14:30:16 <tomman> unlike IE which was basically medieval punishment
14:30:25 <nsITobin> tomman: I am pretty sure that's what I said during some moments of lucity when I was still raging about .. everything
14:30:31 <nsITobin> like in 2023
14:31:09 <tomman> Basically the modern crop of webdevs see Chrome tech as the "eternal youth fountain"
14:31:16 <tomman> and nothing else matters
14:31:41 <tomman> it's like the web being the new OS (again because Chrome empowers that - Microsoft's approach with ActiveX was clearly the wrong one, and so it was Java)
14:35:04 <nsITobin> these modern web devs have to deal with a very dark world out their window
14:37:19 <nsITobin> gah I am running behind on things again...