-
nsITobin
and forcing my self to not shrug off what would be refered to as trivial mistakes
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nsITobin
and bad judgement
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nsITobin
at the tail end of the 2010s
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nsITobin
welcome back tomman
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nsITobin
-
nsITobin
Tracking issue for CF issues on rpmo
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nsITobin
I learned them .. too well
-
Ximo
clownflare strikes again
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tomman
"Clownflare Siege, Day 46"
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tomman
the latest HN thread cooled down even before warming up
-
tomman
in the meanwhile, the Clownflare Agent is hellbent at having their demands met - they're now demanding a timeline to implement some of the missing features
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nsITobin
a timeline from MCP
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nsITobin
lol
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tomman
so far there hasn't been any approach to any of the other affected browsers, other than a vague promise of establishing a sort of "Trusted Browser" crapola program
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nsITobin
it was a fuckin war to get a consistant release schedule
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tomman
nsITobin: let's be realistic, no FOSS project like ours can get anywhere near a timeline
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tomman
that's like asking cows to produce cheese
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nsITobin
they may be able to pull it off but tehre would be fallout and consiquences if pushing that fast
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tomman
and that's exactly what Clownflare is now demanding, because they firmly believe that any "concession" they make on our browsers will "weaken" their mafia product
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tomman
again, a Ukraine vs. Trump situation
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nsITobin
Don't
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nsITobin
do not equate MCP with Ukraine
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tomman
I'm bagging ALL OF US, not just PAle Moon
-
tomman
we're the victims here, remember?
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nsITobin
Yeah
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nsITobin
we have been for a long time
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tomman
Anyway, the situation remains at a stalemate, and negotiations have proved to be a farce where Clownflare wants to keep their pie ANd eat it
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nsITobin
But I think it is a trap. There is a narative that has been building past year that non-corperate backed open source cannot be trusted and the worth of a project is dependant on how many people contribute rather than output produced
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tomman
yep, that's the Silly Con Valley mindset
-
tomman
where FOSS without a monetization path is basically Soviet malware
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nsITobin
Pale Moon is not any kind of entity and the most hostile mozilla related group this side of NT6
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nsITobin
i fear they will be played
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tomman
and if your project is not backed by big VC capital, then it's irrelevant and should not be used, EVER
-
tomman
I find amusing that the latest stupid rumour there is "Apple will buy Ladybird eventually" just because the Ladybird dev uses Apple tech like Switft
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nsITobin
that could be a self fullfilling prophacy tho
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nsITobin
hype about it would get apple's attention
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tomman
maaaaaaaaybe... in 10 years, when Ladybird becomes a relatively complete product?
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nsITobin
i am sure apple is kinda over their hard stolen khtml code driving google and microsoft's control of web standards
-
tomman
but why Apple would ditch Webkit after pouring decades of manpower and billions of dollars on it?
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nsITobin
why is mozilla dropping every Netscape and early Mozilla technology just line by line?
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nsITobin
over a decade
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nsITobin
and a half
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tomman
ha, the complaint I hear usually is "Apple is holding the web back with Safari because it doesn't innovate as fast as Chrome"
-
tomman
(it doesn't indeed help the illegal MICROS~1-esque monopoly Apple has on their cellphones and non-computers with Safari)
-
tomman
-
nsITobin
I still think I caused this
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nsITobin
all of it
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nsITobin
the cloudflare stuff
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nsITobin
when I went to the whatwg and told them at the end I would use a XUL Browser to endrun their standards body just like they did to the W3C.. and well XUL Browsers are specifically under attack across the board.
-
tomman
nah, Clownflare happened because they got blind by the Googlebux
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nsITobin
yeah but this seige could be my fault
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nsITobin
because all these companies conspire with each other
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nsITobin
the standards are just a pretense
-
tomman
they just hate diversity (no, not the DEI one) because that's "extra work, yo"
-
tomman
it's the IE era all over again
-
tomman
except that Chrome is actually well liked because each release comes with new shiny toys for bored nerds
-
tomman
unlike IE which was basically medieval punishment
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nsITobin
tomman: I am pretty sure that's what I said during some moments of lucity when I was still raging about .. everything
-
nsITobin
like in 2023
-
tomman
Basically the modern crop of webdevs see Chrome tech as the "eternal youth fountain"
-
tomman
and nothing else matters
-
tomman
it's like the web being the new OS (again because Chrome empowers that - Microsoft's approach with ActiveX was clearly the wrong one, and so it was Java)
-
nsITobin
these modern web devs have to deal with a very dark world out their window
-
nsITobin
gah I am running behind on things again...
-
therube
uBlock Origin Legacy (uBO) security concerns
-
therube
-
therube
in there is mentioned UCyborg's fork that seemly has ported the fix over
-
therube
(myself, i'll just live dangerously)
-
therube
oh, & from what i recall, if i recall correctly ?, it does run in SeaMonkey
-
nsITobin
therube: and when was the last time someone checked if it STILL runs.. both UXP and 253 have breaking changes to extensions and it is difficult at best to target firefox and suite when it was on the same platform .. it may work MOSTLY but is it specifically cared for for seamonkey? That is what matters when it comes to Mozilla Extensions..
-
therube
certainly not specifically catered for SM... but if someone wants to try...
-
nsITobin
well it won't be me.. I'll fudge ABPrime over first
-
therube
-
tomman
therube: we were discussing that earlier, but yeah, all I can see is a loooooooong stalemate
-
tomman
Clownflare is not really willing to give us some margin, are they?
-
tomman
> Note that we may need to instrument anonymised aggregate traffic analytics for the PM UA as it is likely that bot developers would start leveraging this in nefarious ways.
-
tomman
it's all because The Bots™
-
tomman
(in the meanwhile you routinely see bot makers at Hackernews saying they can easily bypass all and any of Clownflare's antibot crapola)
-
nsITobin
yeah I noticed that
-
tomman
also, the Clownflare dude really contradicts himself
-
tomman
"no, we don't rely on user agent strings to identify browsers"
-
tomman
"yes, we actually do"
-
tomman
"no, not really"
-
tomman
"but we may need to collect data"
-
nsITobin
well he is doing ok on not being completely unreasonable and the community is doing a decent job backing up and supporting what is said while getting a jab in every so often.. But Moonchild's biggest weakness is he is not prepared for a long term showdown.. Eventually he may cave for an easier path for Just Them(tm) or break and play into the stratagy I think is at play.
-
nsITobin
if his fanfic skills start showing on what he is telling the community.. we will know..
-
tomman
and there is where we should enter
-
tomman
because once Clownflare is done chewing him, it's our turn next :/
-
nsITobin
Moonchild will have to step up and be the leader he so desperately wants to be which means looking out for more than your own shit.. This I believe is his test.. He has had more than enough time for some form of de-tobinization and retains every last benefit of it.. He has new contributors and the community seems on the same page.. what he DOES with it will determine a lot about the future..
-
frg_Away
Hi all. uBlock 1.16.6.0 is fine. Just updated from his previous beta.
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nsITobin
cool
-
frg_Away
I usually test this and NoScript. If it were not for NoScript we would have more more backports but hold off. Wish someone would fork it. I applied some private fixes for obsolete stuff so far.
-
frg_Away
As for clownflare. Can we stop the discussion. It goes nowhere and becomes pointless. I rather would like to discuss SeaMonkey shortcomings or possible enhancements. Best if soneone even does them :)
-
tomman
oh,that reminds me
-
tomman
how about pdf.js?
-
tomman
does anyone have a newer compatible version I can install here?
-
nsITobin
is it an extension or a toolkit component?
-
tomman
I've been finding some PDFs that fail to render at all lately, including real ancient stuff from the mid '90s
-
tomman
but then I'm using the final public release of a fork that just turned... what, five years old?
-
tomman
I'm amazed at the fact it still works without the need for fixes
-
nsITobin
which fork
-
tomman
-
frg_Away
In theory we have newer code in our tree. I wanted to look into it for ages but...
-
nsITobin
well this things should be on a list somewhere
-
frg_Away
yes in the meeting notes
-
nsITobin
for integrated pdf.js of course the normal fe code but also shellservice needs updated to be aware it is a target for pdfs
-
nsITobin
if i recall correctly hooks in content handler shellservice and glue
-
nsITobin
are needed
-
nsITobin
of course Mozilla handled it in a very strange way unlike any other previous or future bundled extension
-
nsITobin
this extension is nothing like the code in-tree
-
nsITobin
i am confused here
-
frg_Away
yes was adapted to SeaMonkey with some stuff. One of the reasons we can't just bundle the integreted stuff 1:1
-
nsITobin
oh
-
nsITobin
this shit is node generated then wrapped with a pseudo-extension
-
nsITobin
okay that makes sense
-
nsITobin
... so why didn't they just keep it like the code in browser?
-
frg_Away
Wanted to look into it for ages but it not something I personally want anyway so it gets moved to the next meeting and the next and ....
-
frg_Away
I prefer opening suff in an external pdf reader.
-
nsITobin
same
-
nsITobin
I don't understand how this node abomination produces a mozilla extension
-
nsITobin
tomman: do you know anything about this?
-
nsITobin
i don't think there is a way to gut and maintain this simpler .. someone is gonna have to lrn how to maintain this thing and conduct more backports
-
frg_Away
task 99999
-
nsITobin
well next year should it arrive
-
nsITobin
try and look into it.. I don't know anything about node though
-
Sompi
Rust's developer community forum does not work on non-free browsers, or if JavaScript is disabled. Instead it has "overflow-y: hidden !important;" for its html body so that the page cannot be scrolled down and the user always sees the top banned that tells to download a "supported" (non-free) browser
-
Sompi
does not work on free browsers, I meant to write
-
Sompi
Those supported browsers are Firefox, Chrome and Safari...
-
tomman
Sompi: is that Dischorse, er, Discorpse, er, Discourse?
-
tomman
because Dischorse has such a self-sabotage mode if it detects a browser that doesn't fit Jeff's Vision™
-
tomman
it CAN gracefully degrade, and the proof is that once you disable that CSS rule (and some booby trap with jQuery and links), forums work fine (at least for read-only, I do not recommend using Disscourse as an actual forum user)
-
tomman
of course if you complain at Discourse's "bug tracker" (which is nothing but another Discourse forum instance!), you will be dismissed, locked out, and potentially banned
-
Harzilein
tomman: do you come to that conclusion from observation for empirically?
-
Harzilein
tomman ;)
-
Harzilein
or*
-
tomman
Harzilein: I've been lurking at Discourse boards since Jeff convinced TDWTF's owner to deploy that dogvomit there
-
tomman
spoilers: the locals had a field day every day breaking the darned thing :D
-
tomman
outages were common, and Jeff Atwood is on record having said that any computer older than 5 years is inadequate for Discourse
-
Harzilein
5 years, nice. so at least we won't be _worse_ off than businesses who can actually write them off
-
tomman
(TDWTF eventually triggered a meltdown at Jeff's, and got banned from Discourse, they migrated to NodeBB and remain there, almost a decade later)
-
Harzilein
remains the waste of resources...
-
tomman
FWIW, NodeBB works fine on SeaMonkey, doesn't crash your server 30 times a day, and can be paginated
-
tomman
(it's still overkill for a forum software, I'll stick to phpBB or similar 'till the cold death of the universe)
-
Harzilein
has the pgp key for the mozilla hierarchy been lost?
-
Harzilein
or did it not have one in the first place?
-
Harzilein
netscape
-
Harzilein
w/e
-
Harzilein
oldest _spam_ visible from here in mozilla.support.seamonkey is from 2011
-
nsITobin
tomman: wanna help me write a minimal forum?
-
nsITobin
nothing as grandious as phpbb
-
tomman
those already exist
-
nsITobin
where?
-
tomman
they're called "whatever trash they use in Japan" :D
-
nsITobin
yeah but a good one
-
nsITobin
so anyone know anyone that goes by the username the_fsf?
-
frg_Away
nope