-
hardys
frg_Away: Danke, läuft
-
nsITobin
so yeah as long as hg.m.o is under attack they basically have to ban a bunch of stuff including it seems chromium UAs
-
nsITobin
but it should work on Mozilla-based stuff
-
nsITobin
as far as my testing goes
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frg_Away
hi nsITobin
-
nsITobin
Good morning
-
nsITobin
i slept
-
therube
clownflare (on the PM end)
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therube
-
therube
-
tomman
-
tomman
ooh, the Clownflare agent joined the discussion in the forum too!
-
tomman
> Quite the contrary and this has never been our goal. There is also no anticompetitive angle we are seeking. We don’t participate in browser related engagements to date. We don't have logic in our systems that specifically target the major browser vendors. We rely on well known browser standards to implement our checks.
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tomman
LOLOLOLOLOLOL
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tomman
With the team we agreed we can be more specific with the issues identified as it does not pose a security risk. Pale Moon lacks support for these two functions:
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tomman
canvas fillText()
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tomman
DomRect.toJSON()
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tomman
OK, you should have said that 45 DAYS AGO
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tomman
...do we support those?
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tomman
> Pale Moon does need to support CSPs as well (including in web workers). Specifically these directives:
-
tomman
> At this moment, it's not possible for us to remove checks for these for Pale Moon. We continue to explore options, but if Pale Moon implements these, we can take care of the lack of JS function support listed above.
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tomman
nope, can't do, for realsies
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nsITobin
It's irrelevant
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nsITobin
even if Pale Moon gets special treatment it doesn't do dick for SeaMonkey or anyone else let alone the next time
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tomman
Anyway, we *really* need to get that Clownflare Clown on board here too
-
tomman
yeah
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tomman
do CLownflares even know that IRC exists?
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nsITobin
and I would rather see the Unified XUL Platform, MY XUL Platform, destroyed than bow to cloudflare terrorism
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nsITobin
or you must be this tall to play
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nsITobin
no
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tomman
hmmm, we don't support DOMRect.toJSON()...
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tomman
...WTF, why a rectangle must generate JSON!?
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nsITobin
i don't even know the fuck that is
-
tomman
-
tomman
...Firefox 62
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nsITobin
yes i know but WHY
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nsITobin
why would a rectangle need to be by js accessed with a json result
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tomman
because JSON is the new XML
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nsITobin
why would you use xml to seralize the bounds of a rectangle client side?
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nsITobin
and not use dom to get attrs
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tomman
I can recall how every Enterprisey™ computer rag in the late '90s claimed the future was XML
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tomman
for EVERYTHING
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nsITobin
it is
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nsITobin
just an aborted future
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nsITobin
the rightful future in tech is an XML ecosystem
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tomman
nowadays the new crop of web kids deemed XML was "too verbose" and... replaced it with JSON, because see, JavaScript is the only thing that matters
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tomman
(and Rust)
-
tomman
-
tomman
but... apparently we do support that?
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nsITobin
wicknix: you been silent.. you're a stake holder too as an on again off again browser developer and implimentor
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tomman
that's Firefox 3.5!
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nsITobin
and know the problematic state of anything MCP with strongarm tactics and neogotiations
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nsITobin
tomman: it isn't even that everyone switched to not-xml its that the stuff that replaced it sucks worse than any issues XML ever had
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tomman
Seriously, we need to find a way (legal, of course) to get that Clownflare agent here talking to us
-
tomman
...it will cost two arms, a leg, and possibly one virgin sacrifice or two
-
tomman
but we must hit while the iron is hot
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nsITobin
frg_Away: how is our mailnews core doing?
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hrosik
hi, I'm looking into an interesting issue with SM on Gentoo - since some time chatzilla stopped being packaged (even though it is built), It seems it may have something to do with the build finishing with an .xpi file (now) instead of unpacked extension directory.
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hrosik
any chance anyone remembers switch like that happening?
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hrosik
to pinpoint it more precisely: somewhere between 2.53.7 and 2.53.18 :>
-
» hrosik knows it is a span of some 40 months
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tomman
weird, I'm using both the stable releases and the nightlies and it's built-in
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hrosik
the extensino as such is built all right, but the gentoo ebuild script has some special treatment of locales - effectively removing the .xpi from install directory.
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hrosik
it used to re-create it in the past, but my guess was, that something has changed and the ebuild hasn't been updated accordingly.
-
hrosik
well, if anyone remembers, I'd be glad to hear about it, but it's not a big deal really
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nsITobin
hi hrosik can you link the ebuild?
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hrosik
gitweb.gentoo.org/repo/gentoo.git/t…onkey/seamonkey-2.53.20.ebuild#n484 is the likely culprit (but my understanding of the locale thingie there is none)
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nsITobin
is it slow?
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nsITobin
yeah that's not responding for me they may have hotlink protection
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nsITobin
hrosik: I can't access that file
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nsITobin
or the entire domain
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nsITobin
is it ipv6 only?
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nsITobin
-
nsITobin
they seem to be treating this improperly
-
nsITobin
-
nsITobin
why are they fucking with chatzilla's XPI at all
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nsITobin
k, I am not suited to comment on this..
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nsITobin
also why are they still making provisions for npapi
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nsITobin
What I am suited to comment on is why having bundled extensions is a terrible idea.. it should be an integrated component or external to the software package on some add-ons site somewhere
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nsITobin
for these very reasons
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nsITobin
frg_Away: is there a bulk way to do qimport?
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frg
horsik some changes in 2.53.8
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frg
-
frg
nsITobin I usually edit the series file directly. Never looked but doubt it.
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nsITobin
well successive commands seem to need you to either apply foreach after import or to import without applying foreach but reversed cause it always seems to insert a patch as next to be applied
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frg_Away
Long time since I used. If I have an existing patch I just copy it into patches and put it in the place in the series where I want it.
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frg_Away
hrosik Myckel might know
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frg_Away
code is incorrect for sure. xpi is either localized or the SeaMonkey language pack contains the translations.
-
frg_Away
translations are also incomplete. el and ka missing among others. lt is dead.
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tomman
window.navigator.deviceMemory
-
tomman
wat
-
tomman
why websites need to know how much RAM I have!?
-
tomman
ah yeah, so that's for someone that wants to write a sysinfo app replacement for HWiNFO or AIDA64 :D
-
tomman
in Web Technologies™, of course
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nsITobin
yeah so they know how much to overshoot it to cause hangs for undesirable versions?
-
nsITobin
seems like a cloudflare technology
-
nsITobin
least as of late
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Sompi
Iltasanomat has now also stopped working with Seamonkey
-
nsITobin
it is my opinion that system packagers on average cannot be trusted to take special care when you deviate and even less care if you deviate from the deviation.. there are exceptions like deu and buck
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Sompi
the content is shown for a very short time and then all elements are removed from the page
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nsITobin
but in general...
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Sompi
And it only has a text "Jokin on rikki.
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Sompi
Yritä ladata sivu uudelleen hetken kuluttua."
-
tomman
news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43360642 apparently "Mozilla is stupid for not implementing WebUSB", a obvious security vulnerability
-
Sompi
what is a WebUSB?
-
tomman
however, I'm also pleased to report that at least one out of each two Hackernews actually hates webUSB
-
tomman
Sompi: give your web browser raw access to USB devices
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tomman
because writing native flashers and other tools these days is "icky"
-
Sompi
what the fuck
-
tomman
only Google implements that, and sadly it has been well received by some device OEMs
-
nsITobin
know what.. with recent shifts in narratives and global power structures.. we are gonna be put in to a position to eventually defned Mozilla its self as a dirivative cause they knock down the last of Mozilla's.. whatever the modern version of integrety is.. and they come for us next..
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Sompi
And the Chromium developers came up with that?
-
tomman
implementing from keyboard customization tools to... cellphone firmware flashers
-
tomman
Apple and Mozilla rejected it for good reasons
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nsITobin
well b2g is back
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Sompi
That should be a _very_ obvious security vulnerability
-
tomman
but kids these days consider that downloading native software is "dangerous" and that the web browser is oh-so-much-convenient to brick your cellphone AND get tracked
-
nsITobin
i bet it gets merged back into mozilla central
-
Sompi
But somehow people nowadays don't even see USB chargers as a security risk
-
nsITobin
well people who believe in native apps only do so until they "Get theirs"
-
nsITobin
see a former BinOC Associate
-
Sompi
They just plug it in not caring that it is using a universal data port
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tomman
"webtech is crossplatform, otherwise you get Windows-only software"
-
nsITobin
not MCP-aligned
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Sompi
And soon even a webpage can talk to your charger?
-
tomman
that's the usual excuse these days
-
tomman
Sompi: don't worry, that's why the Battery API is for
-
tomman
...not sure if that one got shot down, or if Google pushed forward with it
-
tomman
"This is the reason I don't use firefox and opt for Edge instead. Mozilla's ridiculous stance on WebUSB, WebSerial and other web-forward tech is bizarre. It shuts out a huge hobbyist community and diminishes web as a platform."
-
tomman
didn't knew the web was a OS
-
tomman
Wonder if native apps will be mainstream by 2030...
-
tomman
or if they will be relegated to niche stuff, old computers, and dinosaurs like me
-
nsITobin
tomman: I wonder if I will have the means to run a computer a year from now
-
tomman
in my case that would be...electricity :/
-
nsITobin
my hardware is aging
-
nsITobin
and it has been through hell already
-
nsITobin
and yeah often making it is a 20 dollar difference between just barely enough and going without
-
tomman
I did some major hardware refresh last year, thankfully
-
tomman
although well, I had to settle with tech of 2014 and 2021, but still...
-
tomman
problem however is the endless power outages and surges/fluctuations here
-
Sompi
I'm not sure if I can even use those new boot-locked computers that can only run Microsoft Windows. They need a Microsoft account to even log in and I have always had problems with those. I'm probably shadowbanned or something
-
Sompi
I wouldn't trust them with my files anyway.
-
nsITobin
So i been testing to see how well a running conversion from git commit history to hg would be.. I used UXP as the repo to test with cause it is massive but not too massive and already presents a number of git challenges like the constant merge commits .. I first tried a direct conversion then a conversion from draft to patch but merge commits threw a wrench in then i tried every git commit and that failed to work.. then I tried exporting the hg
-
nsITobin
conversion to patches and importing that.. and history tracking falls down with branch to branch to branch to master bullshit.. nothing aligns with any specific history.. so then i finally settled on git to hg conversion as-is and only work futurewise and I have found if i follow master branch and skip merge commits it seems to work fine.. This use case is the most likely avenue for maintaining a continued hg repo for central once they shut down
-
nsITobin
theirs.. But we will have to see HOW mozilla lands shit in git. If they want sustainability they will AVOID merges like the plague but once people get on them git flows.. their smarts seem to flow away.
-
hrosik
frg_Away: thanks for the pointers, (and yes, I hope Myckel will find a suitable solution)
-
frg_Away
nsITobin I only did it manually a few times with commit ranges. Formatting patches are numbered and can be directly converted into a series file but yes merges are bad. It is the same with mozilla hg and autoland etc... as seen in the wip repo with the mozilla-xxx.patches.
-
Sompi
-
Sompi
It worked just minutes ago but now it does not show the weather information anymore
-
nsITobin
if I started directly with mozilla i'd likely have been discuraged.. which is why I tested with something less massive but still hefty and using seamonkey gitlab would be cheating ;)
-
nsITobin
frg_Away: it was already difficult cause I had to prep the git repo just to get a clean master branch.. see UXP had a problem when we were holding off webcomponents so we were running two trunks and two release branches.. well Moonchild's happy ass decided to just merge and ever since we have had TWO histories the redwood history and the history that includes webcomponents and as you know webcomponents landed without being largely operational .. for
-
nsITobin
git it can be a bit of an issue but converting to hg had both histories visable and because hg doesn't know they are same patches for the vast majority it nearly doubles the commit history and repo size.. the solution is prep the repo with a single branch clone then sever from origin and manually remove all tags and prune and gc THEN singlebranch clone that to a second repo and import to hg from that
-
nsITobin
the more I work with hg and mq the more I dislike how git works that low entry point has a LOT of consiquences
-
frg_Away
If it were not for hg mq it would probably be just different but this is the killer feature for me. Shtashing stuff and merging is soo time consuming if not everything applies 100%
-
frg_Away
At the old workplace svn was already bad but git seems to top it a bit here.
-
nsITobin
guess when older versions and historical fidelity aren't important git is great for all cases
-
frg_Away
And as usual doesn't matter git has won and everything else is on the way out.
-
nsITobin
git won't last
-
nsITobin
something else will sweep it away
-
frg_Away
google scc with ai control :)
-
nsITobin
hg being python is an issue
-
nsITobin
long term
-
frg_Away
microsoft co-source :)
-
nsITobin
oh god
-
Harzilein
<nsITobin> hg being python is an issue
-
Harzilein
hg people being hostile to reimplementations (vowing to add more things that need intimate knowledge if people manage to do the current thing that according to them also needs it) is a bit of an issue
-
nsITobin
well they need to understand if they don't do something someone is gonna rust them out
-
nsITobin
certainly won't be ported to C by anyone
-
nsITobin
it would be rust
-
nsITobin
also as a well known hostile person regarding their own stuff.. they need to .. get over it.. we're well past saving things because its ours.. we have to save it because it helps people.
-
nsITobin
least I think so and it is at LEAST better than just sticking to being hostile
-
nsITobin
43 patches in 6 weeks
-
nsITobin
that's all they have done
-
nsITobin
how many patches did you backport last release frg_Away ;)
-
hrosik
what is "The Right Way (TM)" to create maildir account?
-
nsITobin
wish i knew anything about maildir
-
nsITobin
apperently i busted it for a year and no one noticed until after i was out on my ass
-
nsITobin
sooo
-
hrosik
the only resource I found was referring to setting some preference for *default* account creation and then creating a new account
-
hrosik
... and can't find again what preference that was :)
-
Harzilein
does maildir (not dropmail, right) even work across platforms?
-
Harzilein
given its naming scheme has filenames with colons in them
-
Harzilein
s/dropmail/movemail/
-
tomman
-
frg_Away
nsITobin didn't do much lately. A bit burned out. Mostly woked on wip before.
-
nsITobin
it is hard to muster one of those give-a-damns with how this year is shaping up
-
nsITobin
or maintain one
-
frg_Away
Well president Dumb and his russian friend are bad enough but just too mal real life issues and uphill battle with backporting. But will continue for sure :)
-
nsITobin
The real issue right now is elon.. and the project 2025 people
-
nsITobin
but i suspect elon is gonna fall hard
-
nsITobin
he is out of control and not officially anything.. it is pretty perfect actually
-
nsITobin
the fallout I fear is people becoming dismissive or restrictive to techies that got out of hand across the board
-
nsITobin
when the technocracy fails or simply fails to get a foothold.. the techies are gonna be blamed
-
nsITobin
regardless
-
frg_Away
nn
-
nsITobin
rest well
-
hrosik
nsITobin: I'm afraid you might be putting too much hope into people caring about techies that get crazy. chances are, that people will only notice too late that something went wrong (as in letting people without any eduaction in humanitites rule society)
-
hrosik
... not that things like that haven't happened in the past
-
nsITobin
there are a lot of disterbing parallels with how I used .. largely don't anymore .. act and how Elon hacks.. if I was a little dumber a bit more sociable and had unlimited resources there is a high probibility i would act no different and it scares me. It is a crime that I am left in this condition but not of my own.. what IS my own failure is reflecting that back out allowing rage and superiority to co-op my other capabilities as if that was the
-
nsITobin
source of them.
-
nsITobin
hrosik: so much so I am basically forcing my self to relearn virtually all my skills to eliminate taint from it..