00:18:42 <nsITobin> tomman: is there ice cream yet?
09:43:48 <Sompi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyjiOBWH91s
09:44:17 <Sompi> Those "woke" people really seem to infiltrate everything, now even LibreWolf is in their hands
09:44:42 <Sompi> Somehow they always manage to reach the leading positions
09:48:55 <Sompi> And always they are so secretive
09:49:41 <Sompi> does anyone know who thas "ohfp she/her" is?
09:49:58 <Sompi> that*
13:46:21 <tomman> uuuugh, the Dolphin emu folks switched to AVIF images for their blog entries. WHY.
13:46:49 <nsITobin> so webp but with patents
13:46:50 <nsITobin> WHY
13:47:18 <nsITobin> oh it is av1 based k
13:47:27 <nsITobin> still.. why
13:47:31 <nsITobin> png is best
13:48:19 <nsITobin> a one frame movie != a single image format
13:49:55 <nsITobin> ok so what was the logic of backing out a rollup to get a patch in mc only to reland in comm..
13:50:22 <nsITobin> and why are thunderbird people jumping the gun on m-c changes before those have happened
13:50:53 <tomman> nsITobin: don't worry, I've spotted HEIF images being used in the wild too
13:51:05 <tomman> because once again WHY
13:51:51 <nsITobin> singularity of stupidity where the sheer mass of the stupidity will collapse and then explode with all our hopes and dreams.. or so goes the theory
13:52:13 <nsITobin> explode showering us with our hopes and dreams*
13:52:41 <nsITobin> granted its a stupid theory but there it is
13:52:48 <nsITobin> it is*
13:54:24 <nsITobin> works well for social climbers because once it starts coming apart at the seems it is someone elses problem
13:54:47 <nsITobin> seams*
13:54:56 <nsITobin> i can't type today.. perhaps an indication? lol
13:55:05 <tomman> https://developercommunity.visualstudio.com/t/Access-violation-with-std::mutex::lock-a/10664660 speaking of madness
13:55:08 <tomman> "CLOSED WONTFIX NOTABUG UPDATESAREGOOD"
13:55:17 <tomman> "Yes - bincompat is one-way. Old programs can use new redists, but new programs can’t use old redists. This allows us to add functionality over time - features, fixes, and performance improvements."
13:55:20 <tomman> the Linux madness, now on a Windows box close to you!
13:57:30 <nsITobin> yeah well everything else is shifting and flipping.. and i suspect if several ones act quickly a linux distro could be created with stability and as I was saying the other day an actual idealized windows-level de
13:57:42 <tomman> "you need the Visual C 2022 runtimes... no, not those, those other, no, not newer enough"
13:58:30 <tomman> it's like places rejecting $100 bills prior to the colorized 2006 series
13:58:43 <tomman> because "no, they're too old" despite still being legal tender
13:59:04 <nsITobin> that note is legal tender for all debts public or private
14:00:14 <nsITobin> if an older bill that is still legal tender will not be accepted then money has no value.. which it doesn't
14:02:08 <nsITobin> anyway practically speaking windows has been a dead platform since windows 10 and its free upgrade
14:04:08 <nsITobin> tomman: if microsoft hedges its bets on linux virtualization and a chromium browser engine.. what need is there of Windows except as a brand name..
14:04:20 <nsITobin> that people have been told for 40 years they have to have
14:05:56 <nsITobin> that concept of Windows in your mind as a sort of entity an established thing of defined attributes and characturistics and ways of doing things.. that's all just legacy and on the block
14:07:45 <nsITobin> and it is indeed the Mozilla model. Micrsoft IS Mozilla at scale now.. It is why I wish Mozilla was only doing this to take out a much bigger threat.. but I know that almost certainly hasn't been even the tiniest fraction of it and it makes me sad.
14:10:07 <tomman> so you mean MICROS~1 has become a overweight San Francisco startup? :D
14:10:31 <nsITobin> yes
14:10:35 <nsITobin> at scale
14:11:53 <tomman> someone should remind Redmond that they're in Washington, not California :P
14:12:29 <nsITobin> it was all over when Microsoft chose Wordpress instead of their own CMS.
14:12:32 <nsITobin> That's how it starts
14:12:50 <nsITobin> What did Mozilla first do.. they added google ipc
14:13:26 <nsITobin> and the codebase has been a 15 year trainwreak ever sense.. it is a small wonder ANY of us can do ANYTHING with any of it
14:14:28 <nsITobin> google ipc and webidl were the first steps in removing Mozilla tech from the playing field and it has worked brilliantly despite my best efforts.
14:20:50 <nsITobin> this is anti-widows development btw
14:20:56 <nsITobin> this vs thread
14:21:26 <nsITobin> it goes against EVERYTHING Microsoft had in decades past done regarding visual studio and the hordes of DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS
14:22:14 <tomman> hmmm, the benchmarks for the latest AMD GPUs are on
14:22:20 <tomman> and... well, the answer is "don't buy yet"
14:23:08 <nsITobin> AMD can't innovate they purged too many minds.. all they can do is crappily copy intel without the last decade's worth of research development and manufacturing
14:23:30 <tomman> half-baked drivers, as usual. But then, if you buy ANY new piece of hardware close to launch date, you deserve what you get
14:23:32 <nsITobin> all AMD products are suffering post AM5 and since they ran out of ATI technology to endlessly push
14:23:44 <nsITobin> gfx suck too
14:23:46 <tomman> wait 6 months at least, let drivers mature and prices normalize
14:23:54 <tomman> eh, I'm happy with my lowly Zen 2 APU
14:24:17 <nsITobin> that isn't am5
14:24:19 <tomman> the era of ATi driver hell is LONG gone - now you just get half baked (but stable) drivers at launch date
14:24:40 <tomman> yep, but still...
14:24:47 <tomman> I don't regret having jumped ship
14:25:00 <tomman> Intel? VINTAGE ONLY.
14:25:07 <nsITobin> well i prefered it when drivers were model or at least series specific.. amd unified driver has made it so i can't run multiple amd cards outside its range.. because the devices are semi-identical according to driver
14:27:35 <nsITobin> i guess comm people are done for now screwing with build configuration.. time to see what all there is..
16:46:39 <nsITobin> frg_Away: Good morning.
16:48:01 <nsITobin> So obviously with these new patches I have to fix one of the mass conversions because it altered confvars.. so I am going to have to exclude that bit during this conflict.. I hope i don't screw it up.
16:51:48 <nsITobin>  0:01.50   File "C:/seamonkey/src/comm/suite/moz.configure", line 91, in <module>
16:51:48 <nsITobin>  0:01.50     imply_option("MOZ_APP_VERSION", seamonkey_version.version)
16:51:48 <nsITobin>  0:01.50   File "C:\seamonkey\src\python\mozbuild\mozbuild\configure\__init__.py", line 1243, in imply_option_impl
16:51:48 <nsITobin>  0:01.50     raise ConfigureError(
16:51:49 <nsITobin>  0:01.50 mozbuild.configure.ConfigureError: Cannot infer what implies 'MOZ_APP_VERSION'. Please add a `reason` to the `imply_option` call.
16:54:05 <nsITobin> first thing I think I will do is eliminate SEAMONKEY_VERSION as THUNDERBIRD_VERSION is long gone
16:54:31 <nsITobin> ... guess i should find the bug for that..
16:54:36 <nsITobin> so i can reference it
16:55:12 <nsITobin> that will better match current prevailing config
16:57:13 <nsITobin> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1507948
16:58:49 <nsITobin> Let's all assume I have already ranted about the surrounding conditions contibuting to my task before me and let's do a thing!
17:02:43 <frg_Away> nsITobin Hi. Verson was used for Lighting add-on. Now integrated.
17:13:02 <nsITobin> nothing I haven't done oh.. about four times already :P
17:13:23 <nsITobin> and i expect to do it once more on 253 one day
17:25:20 <nsITobin> well now there are other issues
17:27:27 <frg_Away> nsITobin not sure bug 1507948 can be used. TB veesion is gone but ours is totally different and probably needs to be kept.
17:29:13 <nsITobin> what needs to be kept?
17:31:56 <nsITobin> mozilla just very recently began ripping autoconf out from under us.. confvars is basically done.. and the remaining rbanding vars left in I am sure is an error as well..
17:37:08 <frg_Away> What is in needs to be kept and moved to python because SeaMonkey specific. Only MOZ_UPDATER and _PROFILE_MIGRATOR are probably elsewhere already.
17:37:28 <nsITobin> sorry i was talking about central not 253
17:37:53 <nsITobin> for 253 *_VERSION hasn't been requred for years
17:38:11 <nsITobin> not since calendar left AMO
17:38:37 <nsITobin> because why would you ever need multiple targetApplications for something that is built and bundled specifically for the app per build
17:38:59 <nsITobin> just they didn't seem to bother until 65
17:39:11 <nsITobin> it was only ever for install.rdf
17:40:47 <nsITobin> and why was calendar de-extensionized? cause no more binary xpcom components for extensions.. and calendar uses em
17:52:07 <frg_Away> nsITobin no was only done after 60. Binary components were already done for in 2.49 and compiled in when the option was set. xpi won't work if the underlying program was compiled without calender support.
17:53:11 <frg_Away> But version is grabbed from te version.txt file in this case. Forgot: http://xr.thereisonlyxul.org/seamonkey-2.53/search?string=seamonkey_version&find=
17:53:59 <frg_Away> this is gone in central.
17:54:18 <nsITobin> SEAMONKEY_VERSION only exists in suite/ on central
17:54:33 <nsITobin> but the build configuration is basically screwed now
17:54:49 <nsITobin> and the underlying stuff has changed a bit as well
17:54:55 <nsITobin> I am disorented again
17:55:02 <nsITobin> within moz.configure
17:55:26 <frg_Away> Thr installers need ot for the file at lest so moz_app:_Version and others need to be set.
18:36:53 <nsITobin> would it be at all possible to get thunderbird contributors to stop updating SeaMonkey's build system?
18:37:00 <nsITobin> on central
18:57:26 <nsITobin>     # version.txt content from the project directory if there is one, otherwise
18:57:26 <nsITobin>     # the firefox version.
18:58:07 <nsITobin> it is no longer possible to alter the MOZ_APP_VERSION outside version.txt without a preexisting condition being set
18:58:26 <nsITobin> it will automatically pick up version.txt and version display
18:58:35 <nsITobin> it is no longer something the project.. does
18:58:38 <nsITobin> or app
18:59:49 <nsITobin> thunderbird uses firefox versioning
18:59:59 <nsITobin> which is mozilla milstone versioning
19:10:04 <nsITobin> okay.. here is my situation as I see it.. I have before me comm and mozilla central.. a recent botched thunderbird patch making changes the build system was never going to accept and obviously without giving it even a ./mach configure to test.. I either need direct instruction on what work to complete or just set loose and make it do SOMETHING so that everything isn't blind applied left untestable.
19:33:45 <frg_Away> would just make it build using mozilla versioning and then we can see what goes later.
19:37:09 <nsITobin> yeah well i have to undo what they did and work through EACH thing and handle it properly then I was gonna rewrite suite/moz.configure to be maintainable.. what they did was a blind port of everything they previously missed and they did it.. wrong.. so its worse now and all at once instead of working through it.
19:37:34 <nsITobin> the nature of moz.configure is its all strangely async so consistant order of what will provoke an error first changes
19:39:00 <nsITobin> so i have to move each item out of confvars one at a time and test via ./mach configure and checking values in config.status foreach
19:42:18 <nsITobin> I just about had it the other day but I trashed it because I had no idea what they were doing if it would be a different patch or just the same reapplied after m-c was patched
19:43:00 <nsITobin> i was up to about five bugs before their patch landed then was reverted and landed again
19:47:14 <nsITobin> I am gonna have to make a decision.
19:53:01 <Sompi> With lossless compression PNG almost always ends up in a smaller file size than AVIF. With lossy compression it seems to be about 50/50, sometimes AVIF is smaller and sometimes JPEG
19:59:29 <Sompi> AVIF just means more compatibility problems and security vulnerabilities
21:18:55 <nsITobin> i mean god forbid moz.configure was as nice as this https://dpaste.org/msoNq
21:39:25 <nsITobin> oh something to look forward to
21:39:25 <nsITobin> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1770174
21:42:11 <nsITobin> config.status looks correct
21:43:46 <IanN_Away> i'm getting "502 Bad Gateway" on bmo
21:44:36 <nsITobin> confirmed
21:44:38 <nsITobin> 502
21:44:43 <nsITobin> ffs
21:45:00 <nsITobin> did bugzilla fall over?
21:45:35 <nsITobin> my conspriacy senses are tingling.. I am fighting them tho.. too much to do
21:46:10 <IanN_Away> it's back
21:50:28 <nsITobin> dunno why I am so conserned .. never needed bugzilla before to figure anything out.. just additional metadata i guess
21:51:25 <frg_Away> nsITobin happens pretty often lately. hg is affected also. comes with the cloud
21:52:08 <nsITobin> well that's all the reason I need to shut down bugzilla and hg and just switch to github
21:52:13 <nsITobin> :P
21:53:10 <nsITobin> i mean it's soooo old and unreliable
21:53:55 <nsITobin> if it can't be stable on a poorly managed overengineered distributed network.. what use is it?
21:55:01 <nsITobin> but seriously.. i wonder why isn't azure supposed to be good?
21:56:11 <Tekk> Because no 'cloud' provider can be.
21:56:26 <Tekk> They're all total garbage. Seems inherent in the industry.
21:56:29 <nsITobin> no shit.. i bet they are being targeted because of that USAID bs
21:56:39 <nsITobin> there is a comma in there
21:56:42 <nsITobin> no comma shit
21:57:51 <nsITobin> allow me to rephrase: no, i bet they are being targeted because of that USAID funding bs
21:58:26 <nsITobin> anyway, gonna build this see what happens
22:00:31 <nsITobin> on top of the adclick contraversy
22:00:38 <frg_Away> nsITobin I would leave the tin hat at the door stop. This happend for weeks now.
22:01:31 <nsITobin> i'll set it over there on the soapbox for now :)
22:02:44 <nsITobin> using rust 1.82 as it seems to be behaving memory wise
23:19:36 <nsITobin> https://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/69a701cab95a
23:19:59 <nsITobin>  0:33.13 C:/seamonkey/src/toolkit/xre/nsAppRunner.cpp(4162,38): error: expected ')'
23:19:59 <nsITobin>  0:33.13  4162 |            "Maybe try to reinstall " MOZ_APP_DISPLAYNAME "?\n",
23:19:59 <nsITobin>  0:33.13       |                                      ^
23:20:12 <nsITobin> i suspect when empty it is fine.. this is on the mozilla side
23:23:49 <nsITobin> either that or MOZ_APP_DISPLAYNAME doesn't work in moz.configure yet.. has to be set by branding/configure.sh
23:23:55 <nsITobin> switch it to that see if it helps