Day 19 of the Clownflare Siege... negative progress IS progress?

now SeaMonkey is back from being hardblocked to a endless broken Turnstile

also, I tried poking at it with Devtools this time so it could render, and all I managed (after 3-4 loops) was to hang my browser

the widget however doesn't complain anymore (?) about BigInt

but it still will fail, and now it feels SLOW

in other stupid Clownflare news, they're being sued in Spain for... enabling Big Fútbol piracy

(because blocking niche browsers is fine, and so is taking crime money)

now they're countersuing the Spanish Fútbol Mafia because they DARED blocking their precious crime-stained IPs!

Hi tomman nsITobin

yo frg_Away~

sup nsITobin

enough clowns, time to hit an ATM

...preferably one not running XP, but I'm not picky :D

(there are only 14 of the bastards still working on my city)

nsITobin didn't know that MOZILLA_STATE_PATH already existed for some time. Now I can have mozbuild 3.2 3.4 an 4.1 in parallel with different workspaces. Makes life easier.

frg_Away: good morning

nsITobin hi and long gone here :)

hi the tomman

i didn't know MOZILLA_STATE_PATH was a thing before vendoring toolchain deps

either

what does it give you in older mozillabuild?

or mozbuild

it is a cold day in texas .. windy

19°F

-7°C

Wind Speed N 18 G 31 mph

nsITobin can have different workspaces. I can install mozilla build 4.1 and 3.4 in parallel and if you use mach bootstrap in 4.1 the toolchains and setting from 3.4 are not touched. And vice versa.

ah

So I can set up an intisal 2.53 env with mozilla esr115 in 3.4 and for central msys2 4.1 the latest bloat

3.2 doesn't even need the workspace. Just built 2.49.6 with VS2019 (VS2017 toolset)

well how was running the pre-Borealis code again :P

old

also wanted to know if the binary is still XP compatible. It is.

if the subsystem version is set right ye should be

nsITobin they forked up the runtime in the latest VS2017. Use post XP apis.

I am pretty sure I am blamed for dropping old os support in UXP because I was against roytam and fedor half-assing XP releases.. but I think one will find who removed all the xp and vista code was not me and I wasn't too thrilled about it at the time.. especially vista support cause NT5x generation gap is one thing.. vista was then just next door in terms of compat

frg_Away: are all 2.49 enhancements in 2.53?

It is more or less history now. I really really rarely use pre 7. And not for browsing the web for sure.

you had three patch branches going at the time plus central.. that's a lot to track

yes everything got checked in then central and/or carried over to 2.53 if late.

it was a very nice navigator base, have to say :P

2.49

mailnews was sorda crap then but it has improved dramatically in 2.53

brb

though thinking about it it was just tabbedmail that never sat right with me .. seemed incomplete for a long time..

I did some cleanups and fixes I think but even then mostly backports. Understand it better now but the second rate programmer is still a thing :) Jack of all trades master of none.

maybe that's why I avoided c/cpp all this time despite getting some through osmosis alone.. just staying ahead of that

I wonder if we shpould morrit to heptapod. With mozilla moving to gitshrub might get lost otherwise. It is mostly history but 1 or 2 people might still want it for XP support.

It is also a solid reference point for me as well so it would be nice to retain an hg copy

and yeah i bet suite will be dropped before cc goes github

as part of the repo prep to shead history

^I wonder if we should mirror.

I think so

drat laptop keyboard is on the right side from the main one and I always mistype

well my ability to spell is dubious so don't worry so much

Bill and I always beat each other who is the worst typo generator.

I remember he mentioning that after a string of typos of his own

there morning chores are done.. everything is in perfect order..

inb4 i remember i didn't do something

frg_Away: so you have it setup as vs2019 and the vs2017 tools provided by 2019 and you what set it prepending mach commands and you can build 249 253 abd central cause central grabs vs2022 all adhoc like

and if you do bootstrap 115 you can indeed build back to at least 102 .. that's good

Did central in a different VS2022 vm but it should work now.

right and it eats ram like a monster atm you said

Plan to change 2.53 so that the VS2019 toolset is picked when you select VS2022. Till native VS2022 is fixed.

well then we have to target 2022 to be fixed before extended 115 support ends

cause after that 115 bootstrapping could vanish

oh wait

you mean do the 2019/2017 thing

yes

well that sure would be snazzy

i was against that sort of thing back in the day but there is little choice now..

In theory I could also do it for 52 but I don't thing I want to mess with it again. Would need to integrate the different compiler path and waste a day or two for tests.

how far did your 52 get on web features?

not that it matters much as 253 is well beyond that

forget it level

frg_Away: does WIN32_REDIST_DIR and WIN_UCRT_REDIST_DIR work for seamonkey's current state cause I noticed you had been copying the redist in with your recent builds?

yes. I just have the redist installed anyway and don't bother updating it for the build vm. I use a differeent dir for it. Official builds will not need it.

that's all gotten a bit harder to do in mozconfig because all the vcvars are normally not set anymore.. tho I have hacked start_shell bats i need to refine so i can SELECT the visual studio version to use more properly.. I am just extremely rusty on my old batch skills

until seamonkey requires msys2 .. we really need a refresh of mb3x

Unless you compile for xp just use the latest. All good for 7 to 11. Even still Vista.

I still think it is irresponsible to drop support for an OS from a browser when you know the OS is still used a lot and have the resources to continue supporting it.. THEY do.. But I, we, no one with out a .. budget does so I have no reason to build for XP but lots of reasons to never build for XP.

objectively putting aside my biases.. XP users seem to expect Microsoft level support from a few guys and a codebase and often won't take yes for an answer..

they always want MOAR

now if you want the bias'd take LOL

I would have kept Vista support. Not much different from 7 and Server 2008 is still supported via premium assurance. Even x86. Unlike 7 last one of the 32 bit holdouts. I still wonder who needs 2008 x86? XP had its time.

i can tell you my 2014 craptop.. can barely run the modern web at all it couldn;t handle seamonkey TRYING to modern web.. we have just moved past that hardware and its minimum system requirements..

rust helped that along

yes but my 2013 X230 and the W530 I am just typing on are good. Just not so for compiles.

and it ain;t just seamonkey.. the craptop doesn't like UXP browsers either .. even worse there cause customelements mostly works

i can't stand these chicklet keyboards

older style laptop keyboards .. no problem..

The X220 and W520 are crap because of outdated gfx drivers. Otherwise I would not have swithcer th the 30s.

how do people type on these things they are just one step removed from a flat surface en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiclet_keyboard

the thinkdpad ones are halfway ok. My P50 also has a better one compared to the x30

the newer thinkpad keyboards?

yes

i have heard they are a better design but still not as good as the ibm style thinkpad keyboards.. the gold standard IMO

well IBM was the gold standard for keyboards with the model m and that bucking spring as well

On the desktops I still use ancient Model Ms with an adapter. 1986 equipment :)

I'd do the same if I had one.. currently abusing a Das Keyboard .. clicky as fuck microswitches I love it

i wanted to save up for a unicomp keyboard but i heard they went way down hill

assuming they still exist.. i haven't looked in forever

I have one and the cable broke. Custom layout for de. Fixed it but now broken again. Didn't have time to check if it the cable again. They are a bit mushy compared to the orginal ones.

well maybe best to stick with my microswitched monstrocity daskeyboard.com/model-s-professional

So currently no windows key but I don't miss it much. No copilot key ever either :)

Have a few Ms in the attic so I suspect good till I vanish from this planet.

mice are terrible these days

Even a few 24 F key ones for 3270 use.

too fuckin light and cheap and pointy

Use logitech pilo and thrash them ever 2-3 years. Even got some switches once but not worth it.

^pilot

i am down to using a walmart brand mouse.. need a new one eventually

i LIKED the feel and weight of the original microsoft optical scroll mice with the tail light.. the basis for the intellimouse later on

Fujitsu mice were usually logitech so I bought a box of them cheap. Looking at the latest they might still be oem ware.

welcome back tomman also hi tonymec|away