12:08:59 <Sompi> https://onevoicecrm.my.site.com/usaspending/s/database-download using SeaMonkey that page seems to be just a blank page
12:09:04 <Sompi> No errors in the console
12:10:25 <Sompi> can someone who is an USA citizen download that for me?
12:39:00 <frg_Away> Happy birthday Bill wherever you are
12:44:28 <frg_Away> hi tobin of the day
14:59:35 <nsITobin> generally same tobin i been all year .. which is a damn improvement vs last year and certainly years prior amd good morning frg_Away how are you?
15:00:17 <nsITobin> tho was napping, now got sufficient sleep
15:06:17 <frg_Away> nsITobin mostly ok :) Away two days and now updating systems
15:08:21 <tomman> Linux needs a Patch Tuesday :D
15:08:46 <nsITobin> yeah so i double checked its why I been so quiet reletively last several days.. pam and my script works.. it is vsftpd which seems barely pam capable.. oh it works well with pam_unix and pam_userdb.. any other pam module it either denies or pretends everything is a-ok.. Well I can play the manual game it is jus...
15:11:04 <nsITobin> it is just less elegant and portable.. proftpd should work for this purpose but I am not familar with its setup.. and just want a solution done this week.. so.. but of course I have to make my code a little more resilliant to bs like this ;)
15:11:11 <nsITobin> which I did
15:14:26 <nsITobin> I need reentry protection for writing the file and really my pseudo-singleton modules should be proper singletons cause that is how they are treated just not structurally enforced. Now it extends an abstract singleton base class..
15:18:02 <nsITobin> also take extra care cli routines cannot be triggered from the web.. and take care that the file can't be tricked into being read by web access.. and all should be peachy.. it just isn't as "sloppy" as simply using an sql database or reading content off disk..
15:57:25 <nsITobin> tomman: doesn't rhel basically run by patch tuesday and fedora has patch everyday
15:58:04 <nsITobin> (unless its a patch to fix something of course then it waits for refactors and replacements)
16:28:51 <tomman> dunno, I'm on Debian, where all you get are "Surprise Patch Day"
16:31:47 <nsITobin> tomman: extending classes is cool
16:31:49 <nsITobin> LOL
16:32:36 <nsITobin> real question is is it actually cool or do I think it is cool because it is working how I think it should and all is simply going well :P
16:32:58 <nsITobin> greetings hardys
16:34:59 <hardys> frg_Away: if you have a new 2.53.21pre win64 de for beta testing, can you send me a link for download :)
16:35:15 <frg_Away> will do
16:35:38 <hardys> thanks
16:37:31 <hardys> hi nsITobin
16:39:44 <frg> hardys https://seafiles.thereisonlyxul.org/nightly/2025/02/2025-02-09-00-00-00-comm-253/
16:40:01 <frg> Unlike the official needs the runtime if you have not installed it.
16:40:28 <frg> nsITobin If you want you can delet the 06.02 build. Thanks alot again.
16:42:07 <nsITobin> if the nightly store goes past the 20 gigs I have loosely set aside but I expect by the time that gets done anything relevant would be copied to the archive server by then
16:42:38 <nsITobin> but yeah I'll update the symlink and create a cron job
16:42:59 <nsITobin> some bash would be nice change of pace vs the php i been stairing at for days
16:44:16 <nsITobin> plan to use this file as the input https://seafiles.thereisonlyxul.org/nightly/latest-nightlies.txt i can split that easily enough and run the command every .. hour or so ..
16:45:30 <frg_Away> I think daily should be fine.
16:46:53 <nsITobin> yeah just optimistic.. gotta take it where you cna get any you know
16:47:32 <hardys> frg_Away: Danke, läuft
16:59:59 <nsITobin> for the record it is ln -svnf target link for anyone who wants to play the move symlink game
18:54:21 <tomman> awesome, TVTropes is now broken under SeaMonkey - trying to open the category folders on any article doesn't work
18:54:22 <tomman> SyntaxError: '*[data-click-toggle][data-click-toggle-target]:not(#signup-form-toggles a)' is not a valid selector
18:54:51 <tomman> the site throws a bunch of other JS errors, but that one only happens when clicking the folders
18:54:59 <tomman> seems to be CSS selectors this time
18:56:39 <tomman> hmm, seems to be the :not() function that is breaking here
18:57:09 <tomman> :not(a) works, :not(#blah) works, but :not(#blah a) fails, despite being a valid expression
18:57:55 <nsITobin> is it valid for sm's css parser?
18:59:28 <tomman> yep, it seems we don't support nested selectors inside :not()
18:59:57 <tomman> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/21770960/nesting-inside-css-not-selectors
19:00:14 <nsITobin> i can't find the bug but that behavior change landed in 84
19:00:19 <tomman> https://www.w3.org/TR/selectors-4/ ...which got ratified in... 2022
19:00:36 <tomman> we need selectors level 4
19:00:43 <nsITobin> checking for a UXP solution
19:01:08 <tomman> This one... I can't really complain, it makes sense to allow nested selectors on pseudo-selectors
19:01:15 <tomman> I can see uses for this
19:03:33 <nsITobin> they don't have it
19:04:13 <nsITobin> tomman: yeah but I am fairly sure we can't backport it without rust unless it was done purely in layout/style
19:04:20 <nsITobin> rust
19:04:23 <nsITobin> stylo
19:04:26 <nsITobin> i betcha
19:04:29 <tomman> oof
19:04:29 <nsITobin> if we find the bug
19:04:33 <nsITobin> it will be rust
19:09:46 <nsITobin> https://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/fd29ba131d13
19:09:49 <nsITobin> there it is
19:10:05 <nsITobin> doesn't even touch layout/style except for a test case
19:10:08 <nsITobin> as expected
19:10:29 <nsITobin> Bug 933562
19:10:38 <nsITobin> a six digit bug..
19:11:04 <nsITobin> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=933562
19:17:26 <nsITobin> tomman: maybe we should start a wiki about OpenWeb Tropes..
19:17:57 <nsITobin> then start listing sites and the tropes they pull
19:18:29 <nsITobin> mozilla specifically waited until stylo to add layer 4 to :not
19:18:35 <nsITobin> they waited YEARS
19:18:47 <nsITobin> tells me it won't be trivial
19:30:05 <tomman> Uh, where I can download Greasemonkey for Seamonkey?
19:30:14 <tomman> it's not on the addons directory
19:30:28 <tomman> first time ever I need its services~
19:37:13 <nsITobin> good question
19:37:23 <nsITobin> ... someone in here has greasemonkey ..
19:37:28 <nsITobin> unless it was you
19:38:32 <nsITobin> therube last linked this tomman https://sourceforge.net/projects/gmport/files/
19:39:16 <tomman> ha, SourceForge :D
19:39:19 <tomman> OK, let's restart~
19:46:26 <tomman> thanks folks, that worked~
19:46:36 <nsITobin> how functional is the extension?
19:47:40 <tomman> took me a couple minutes on how to install a script, edited it, did what it was supposed to do
19:47:53 <tomman> --to figure out how to
19:47:58 <nsITobin> it should have a functional installtrigger of its own
19:48:07 <nsITobin> but i dunno if sites bother with it or not
19:48:08 <nsITobin> anymore
19:58:37 <nsITobin> tomman: what userscript are you using?
20:04:26 <tomman> needed this: https://whatsoftware.com/bypass-blogger-content-warning-on-offensive-blogspot-sites/
20:04:38 <tomman> specifically this: https://gist.github.com/obeattie/362589
20:04:49 <tomman> (had to edit it since Blogger these days is HTTPS-only)
20:09:29 <nsITobin> cool, if more web users were still like that.. we'd be in a lot better shape
20:20:41 <tomman> in the past you could simply dismiss Blogger's agecheck by clicking the "Yes, I'm an adult" button
20:20:47 <tomman> nowadays it requires a mandatory Google login
20:21:06 <tomman> worse, it popups a Android-style dialog there
20:49:38 <nsITobin> google ads saying my browser is out of date.. i thought we made that shit defacto illegal over a decade ago
20:55:19 <tomman> oh god
20:55:22 <tomman> speaking about that
20:55:36 <tomman> I found a new Clownflare cockblocking display saying... exactly the same
20:55:41 <tomman> "Your browser is out of date!"
20:55:47 <tomman> https://pastebin.com/login example
20:55:55 <tomman> WAIT
20:56:04 <tomman> they REPLACED TURNSTILE WITH THAT LOCKSCREEN
20:56:05 <tomman> WTF
20:56:16 <tomman> Clownflare ESCALATED the war against us!?!?!?!
20:56:41 <nsITobin> i long stopped using pastebin cause of cf shit and hell their serious business filter is way over senstive hard to paste any code with my uhh comments.. lol
20:56:54 <tomman> yep, all those sites that were failing due to Turnstile breaking because lolBigInt now outright block us
20:56:58 <tomman> How. Wonderful
20:57:03 <tomman> they could have drawn a big fat dick too
20:57:48 <nsITobin> yes
20:57:51 <nsITobin> seems so
20:57:56 <nsITobin> checking uxp
20:58:20 <tomman> https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=32045&sid=465343abd2439cd4e22dc618b4e9cac6&start=180#p259665
20:58:30 <tomman> they instead now cause Pale Moon to go OOM
20:58:40 <tomman> this is insanity
20:58:54 <nsITobin> UXP.. not just Pale Moon lol
20:59:07 <nsITobin> Pale Moon isn't even native code to UXP technically
20:59:30 <tomman> While us Seamonkey get... a hard block
21:00:17 <tomman> even disabling the Firefox token from the user agent doesn't help
21:00:24 <nsITobin> tomman: confirmed oom for them.. tho OH i hit a breakpoint
21:00:32 <nsITobin> and my vm just lost accelerated graphics
21:00:40 <tomman> yeah, this is a deliberate criminal act
21:00:42 <nsITobin> oh no
21:00:45 <nsITobin> my vm is FUCKED
21:00:49 <tomman> oof
21:00:50 <tomman> OOF
21:01:07 <nsITobin> not enough memory to crash and the video.. OH SHIT LOL
21:01:15 <nsITobin> THEY FUCKED THE MOON HARD
21:01:39 <tomman> so Pale Moon/UXP users get death penalty, SeaMonkey instead gets a brick wall
21:01:42 <tomman> lovely
21:01:50 <nsITobin> i have ... very conflicted feelings right now tomman
21:02:13 <tomman> "Day 13 of the Clownflare Siege... the warfare acts escalated even higher this time"
21:03:11 <nsITobin> yeah i dunno what to do about this vm
21:03:23 <tomman> apparently they're blocking Opera too
21:03:40 <tomman> which is odd since Opera is yet another Chrome fork
21:03:46 <tomman> well, skin
21:04:00 <nsITobin> THERE finally slipped a shutdown api call down its thoat
21:04:36 <tomman> Supported browsers
21:04:37 <tomman> If your visitors are using an up-to-date version of a major browser — such as Chrome, Firefox, Safari, Microsoft Edge, Chrome and Safari on mobile — they will receive the challenge correctly.
21:04:39 <tomman> Challenges are not supported by Microsoft Internet Explorer.
21:04:40 <tomman> If your visitors encounter issues using a major browser besides Internet Explorer, they should upgrade their browser.
21:04:50 <tomman> no mention about "non-major browsers", of course
21:05:21 <tomman> but it's pretty much official that even Chrome clones other than Chredge are not allowed anymore
21:05:34 <nsITobin> as I foreseen
21:05:45 <nsITobin> was only a matter of time
21:06:04 <nsITobin> now .. will they be able to keep it up or have to start changing the game again
21:06:45 <nsITobin> I find it interesting that this all escilated after I invaded the WHATWG and sepcifically called out quic cf and everything
21:06:50 <nsITobin> after-around
21:08:11 <nsITobin> I told them.. you've already signed your depercation notices.. because the fact the WhatWG exists means the established power structure can be endrun, bypassed, and subsumed.. All someone has to do is... do it.. AGAIN.
21:08:16 <nsITobin> before i got banned
21:14:12 <nsITobin> tomman: this siege is too specific .. twice now UXP was rendered crash-y by Cloudflare .. and for seamonkey users as you say they just get an out of date message .. they had to specifically make sure it worked with SeaMonkey and by the same token have made sure Pale Moon is crashing.. Opera? i dunno why they are after them it is just Chrome..
21:14:53 <tomman> at this point looks like a vendetta against either Pale Moon or Moonchild, but given that they're now also blocking us AND even some Chrome skins... oof...
21:14:53 <nsITobin> it PERFECTLY reflects the general viewpoints of both Pale Moon/UXP and SeaMonkey most have
21:15:00 <tomman> this could be as well a very complex issue
21:15:12 <tomman> but in any case, it's deliberate criminal action
21:16:01 <nsITobin> tomman: Moonchild is a known queried individual in the DOJ case against Google..
21:16:30 <nsITobin> I wasn't.. which is bullshit but okay.
21:16:54 <tomman> Unfortunately given the current leaning of the actual USA administration, I see no legal avenue working here
21:17:10 <tomman> I mean, remember that the entirety of Silly Con Valley suddenly flipped with Trump
21:17:15 <tomman> and now... well, this
21:17:20 <nsITobin> tomman: have they?
21:17:22 <nsITobin> i been cut off
21:17:25 <tomman> money has to be protected
21:17:36 <nsITobin> and mainstream news isn't covering tech stories
21:17:42 <nsITobin> except when elon is directly involved
21:18:54 <tomman> which given Elon's new status as the President (Second) of the USA, well, it ensures him total air time
21:19:35 <nsITobin> tomman: what are you seeing in silicon valley from your vantage point.. have they really flipped?
21:20:32 <tomman> again, money speaks... and they know well of which Trump is capable of
21:20:52 <tomman> they may have fought him during his first term, but now the times (and interests) are changed, to worse
21:21:17 <tomman> Anyway, maybe it's time for another Hackernews plea for help?
21:21:27 <tomman> or will be get buried faster this time?
21:22:05 <nsITobin> well as a defective retard I was NEVER gonna rise to the top of anything in Final MAGA
21:22:23 <tomman> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43036593 and yet Chrome has gotten text rendering wrong under Windows, but they're now being praised for... a Edge bugfix?
21:23:02 <nsITobin> tomman: Microsoft has been in defacto charge of chromium branch on windows since edge started.. it was all about first party cleartype support
21:23:09 <nsITobin> that is WHY google went along with it
21:23:31 <nsITobin> but Microsoft will kill google for us .. the seeds are already planted
21:23:36 <nsITobin> but then...
21:26:34 <nsITobin> all things considered.. The Paradigm was FAR better than Final MAGA and now big tech is swinging right or will as long as trump is in power?
21:27:39 <nsITobin> swinging right with all the left's silencing technology
21:30:59 <nsITobin> yeah I was conserned about that.. only hope now tomman is everything is so fragile and broken and unmaintainable that the new techright under techbro authority that it all falls apart in their hands..
21:31:27 <nsITobin> so dystopic control or eventual collapse..
21:31:32 <tomman> the best we can help (short of resorting to illegal moves) is for Clownflare to fail from its insides
21:31:59 <tomman> or to get eaten by a Broadcom that starts dismantling them and selling the carcass for parts
21:32:50 <nsITobin> tomman: illgeal? to whom.. the executive branch?
21:33:05 <nsITobin> do you REALLY think that is a consern anymore?
21:41:18 <tomman> it seems the block page I got served uses heavily obfuscated/encoded JavaScript
21:41:28 <tomman> so the actual rejection message is rendered client-side
21:41:38 <tomman> but no JavaScript errors
21:42:43 <tomman> so it seems that this time it checks the browser version somehow even before attempting to load Turnstile
21:43:18 <tomman> and since they know that it's going to fail here, they instead assume I'm running Firefox 3.6 on Windows XP, basically
21:44:07 <nsITobin> yeah
21:44:50 <nsITobin> tomman: and what is wrong with that? We could sec patch the HELL out of 3.6 and it would be safe just not very useful
21:45:01 <tomman> Well, it was a saying
21:45:28 <tomman> they assume "this must be a ancient Firefox version, because there is no way in hell a Firefox fork or Gecko-based browser can exist in 2025"
21:45:42 <nsITobin> i dunno tho its hard to predict stuff when everyone's motivations for doing shit are being mass altered
21:46:15 <nsITobin> i am guessing more than predicting based on older trends that haven't skewed yet
22:16:11 <nsITobin> FrankLion: any corrections :P
22:16:24 <nsITobin> I'm embrasing em lol
22:17:58 <FrankLion> Corrections about what? I haven't read the log stuff yet.
22:18:45 <nsITobin> heh how you been FrankLion?
22:21:00 <FrankLion> Fine, although I'm missing my Protonmail, Ebay and IMDB on SM, which I notice are all working fine on that damn PM
22:24:52 <nsITobin> FrankLion: check the log.. cloudflare's assult seems specifically geared to crash Pale Moon .. twice now a cf changes has caused crashy issues for the moon people.. if we're honest this is broadly how people treat Pale Moon vs SeaMonkey.. one needs killed with fire and the other is just old netscape..
22:26:49 <nsITobin> yesterday's drama is tomorrow's weapon of war
22:26:56 <nsITobin> i been saying that since 2014
22:28:32 <nsITobin> there is a difference though Pale Moon may be able to do some modern web but it is by no means complete.. all webcompat is treated on a majority usage in the wild basis NOT parity..
22:28:54 <nsITobin> while when SeaMonkey gets updates its gonna be roughly Mozilla eq
22:29:08 <FrankLion> Hmm, CF seem to be up to something, that's for sure.
22:29:42 <FrankLion> SM is a far better 'user experience' than PM
22:30:45 <nsITobin> currently Pale Moon and UXP are still the most antithetical threat to the openweb narrative and the coming authoritarian crackdown.. they are authoritarians they understand how to navigate.. they been on their own under attack since before I even started.. Their extermination is top priority for anyone not wanting a world wide web.. SeaMonkey is second.. I am third.. no one else will go far enough off script to matter.
22:31:20 <nsITobin> well no one until someone does that is
22:31:23 <nsITobin> which I hope a lot will
22:32:59 <nsITobin> antithetical and top threat*
22:34:13 <nsITobin> FrankLion: Pale Moon's eroded Firefox 4ish UX is something I always hated.
22:35:39 <nsITobin> people didn't want the 4ish ux they wanted the 2/3 style.. why do you think there are so many firefox 1 2 and 3 skins.. because Pale Moon default is horrible.. it was when it was Firefox imo
22:37:49 <nsITobin> and failing that.. people depserately wanted my Navigator for its polished up power user communicator UI style.. enough to steal it my branding etc and call it their own.. There is a fork of Borealis and also a full suite using some Borealis fixups on UXP.. it's clear.. the amount of comm-code with mail suite and downstream for vaporware.. SeaMonkey rocks and everything touched by Mozcorp sucks..
22:38:26 <FrankLion> I'm biased but neither Firefox nor PM ever seemed to understand what good themes are about, let alone make them
22:38:58 <nsITobin> FrankLion: Default theme? Firefox 2 was spiffy
22:39:14 <FrankLion> Meh
22:39:21 <nsITobin> better than IE
22:39:24 <nsITobin> :P
22:39:33 <nsITobin> better than Chrome
22:39:42 <nsITobin> better than anything OTHER than SeaMonkey today
22:54:26 <nsITobin> bbl
23:02:12 <tomman> https://garry.net/posts/the-death-of-the-web the web has been dead for way too long, dude~
23:45:37 <nsITobin> back
23:52:25 <Ximo> garry newman and his boyfriend are fairly scuffed
23:53:01 <Ximo> he's gone from ranting about Unity Engine to, apparently, now things even MORE above his head
23:53:56 <nsITobin> why is this site setup like webmail
23:54:01 <nsITobin> this looks terrible
23:54:08 <Ximo> the shitbag is complaining about everything that has made him and his Facepunch Studios filthy rich
23:54:09 <nsITobin> this design is death of the web
23:54:15 <Ximo> prick through and through that's fors ure
23:55:15 <nsITobin> Ximo: so tl;dr he knows how the web died cause he helped
23:55:54 <Ximo> not sure he "helped" because that would imply too much credit.... Rust/Garry's Mod isn't really that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things
23:56:19 <Ximo> most people don't even know what that is
23:56:26 <nsITobin> rust is gonna kill the c language if people don't watch out
23:57:12 <Ximo> see what I mean? heh