gitlab wip updated

Good morning.

nsITobin hi

you are at your frgstation how can I halp?

nsITobin as usual check biuilds and do patches. Meeting in 40 minutes too.

oh i best be updating mah wiki section like I never do.

speaking of content formats.. got markdown going too rather complete once I threw a real github markdown file at it

and required really no wrapping code other than instantiating and using

unlike every other content method i have ;)

Status meeting in 29 minutes - wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2025-01-26

early here~

Hi tomman

hi tomman

Status meeting in 15 minutes - wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2025-01-26

Ready.

:P

hi .*

Something about the seamonkey site template I use on the new CCI.. SeaMonkey's design is based originally on a modified version of cavendish the xul org's template replicates many elements of that but is based on the BinOC layout.. which the CCI seamonkey template is built from the xul org template so ESSENTUALLY you have Mozilla, BinOC, SeaMonkey, There is only XUL, and an original footer all in one design .. its a little nuts.

but from a glance its just seamonkey with a different footer

hi njsg

and I find that neat.. but I am a crazy web designer

Status meeting in 3 minutes - wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2025-01-26

Hi rsx11m

howdy!

Oh holy Zawinski, we beseech you to-- wait wrong sunday service

hi rsx11m

Status meeting time - wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2025-01-26

rsx11m: hi

greetings everybody~

hi IanN njsg nsITobin

+tomman

sup

Who's taking minutes?

me and late as usual

Nominees for Friends of the Fish Tank?

thanks

WG9s for overall achivements and be there for us till the end.

++

thirded

absolutely

x100

sadly missed

yep, no doubt

yes. His last patches still need to go into central I hope I manage soon.

Action Items

I removed the links to Bills webiste and as a drive by cleaned up google groups and irc logs. Will makr it as done in the notes.

Nothing else for action items from me. Others are all infra I think.

Status of the SeaMonkey Infrastructure

Windows signing key expried. No news I suppose.

Currently no prerelease and comm-central builds done.

aus5 has gone live

aka updater

2012 R2 and CentOS 7 build servers are history. Not sure if ewong has decommisioned them yet.

the old builder are still there for reference

says server certificate expired when I try in latest prerelease :)

*builders

32bit builds for pre-releases should go and I think winding down 32bit releases should be started.

I am with you.

Code can stay if someone wants to do them.

well maybe they can contribute some builds to some ftp later lol

Good old tradition.. needs to come back.

nightly 2.53 builds for macos/linux should now be appearing

q4os.org is suitable for the current i686 releases but you shoud rather dump your i686 distro and hardware.

i will talk to ewong to see if we can work out what's happening with the cert on aus5

oh nice, the nightlies resumed

For a few now. Sorry I forgot to report it. Busy with real life :(

IanN: is the aus5 server config public somewhere or documentation there of

nsITobin doubt it. All in azure.

nsITobin: just a matter of working out why it's not renewing the LetsEncrypt cert

Mozilla made infrastructure rather opague and stopped releasing a lot of materal some years back.. would be nice to have it available at some point in the next several years ;)

nsITobin: have to check it's configured correctly as I think ewong just copied it across from aus2

I need to write a helper script for certbot to update my bind dns server .. I'll share it incase it becomes useful.

nsITobin I doubt we will have the manpower to document anything. Given that it is azure it is propritary as well.

that bad huh

well if it is only applicable to azure then yeah not really worth expending a bunch of effort on

I still don't even know how to copy to archive. But need to work out how to do Windows prerelease builds anyway.

Well trump should make the internet for rsx11m great again :)

Trump doesn't know anything about the internet.. maybe twitter but not the internet. Now W.. he understood the internet is a series of tubes.

Status of the SeaMonkey Source Tree

Not a series of tubes?

:P

wb rsx11m

sorry, modem trouble again...

check those capacitors~!

Hopefully all building. Updated my wip branch a bit more. With Bill no longer there we need to figure out occassional central builds and fixing them up too.

windows and linux 64 central ain't difficult to produce slightly easier than 253 for me .. but i keep not using a VM on linux.

Needs VS2022 artifacts, msys2 and later rust. If you want to keep it building happy to grant you gitlab access too.

I have for windows a seperate central build vm need to refresh it.. last thing I was doing on central was upsetting Mozilla.

Bill did daily builds but just a weekly one or so would help. l10n is borked but it does not affect us as I thought it would. New strings in our central gitlab l10n repo get translated.

weekly is doable .. couple hours once it gets STARTED of course

I do know it is important for various testing things and the like

Bill just fixed it up with build fixes then. Usually put them as 999999- in gitlab and I would pick them during a checking later. I usually pick only the stuff needed for buildign and left the others in as TOP- patches.

It just needs to build so that we still have a foot in the door. No testing needed.

Status of the SeaMonkey Source Tree done?

I bet with the move to github our source will be gone but just a hunch.

he was working blind almost the entire time.. it is a miricle it builds

IanN think so

nsITobin we now and then figured it out together. Only packaging and cpp fixes usually.

before I was banned the Thunderbird plan i got out of them was to remove suite and merge mailnews into mail

and chat into mail

basically comm-central is mail rust and third_party

that was the plan i was told

oh, I guess that'll make backports so much easier...

well git follows renames better than hg so there is that

but once they merge mailnews with mail, it'll not even enforce the separation it ought to have

I figure after that they will make them selves a parody of a xulrunner app launched by firefox.exe

mozilla still approves of that method

there was a fitting burntelectrons quote

nsITobin: web.archive.org/web/20150102231047i…tp://quotes.burntelectrons.org/3161

Release Train

Well mailnews is no longer something good for cross app development but that is another story. Like browser/toolkit now. Anyway lets not dive into this.

Till later ;)

2.53.20 has a borked json bookmakrs import thanks to me. Signing key expired so not sure if the next one can be signed. Still too much to do left.

I think 2.53.21 should be the end of the raod for i686/x86 releases.

will see what info ewong can pull off for number of pings from x86 clients

At lest one addon using the add-on sdk was broken by 2.53.20 too.

I also agree betas should go until such time as betas would be useful again

Which extension?

add-on which broke is Dark Background and Light Text 0.5.16. Ran out of time fixing it. I found one problem and fixed it in 2.53.20 but totally blank what the remaingin problem is.

jetpack can be tricky .. next time I get a build going I'll see if i see anything no promises though

my usual suspects still survive. Redirector settings remains broken because of the limitations to addons that hit its embedded jQuery

i think that's Extensions covered too

I know there is some brakage in it from removing the deprecated js stuff but this one still worked. Breakge showed only dorung add-on removel and just needed a restart.

well at some point bustages become an add-on problem not an application problem.. best effort always but sometimes bustages happen even in the old days.

IanN yes. My places cleanup might habe broken an add-on names check places but was last updated years ago. So be it in this case.

We need the cleanup.

better conformance to firefox places actually could open up reviving some firefox-only places related extensions

potentally

nsITobin yes but if we brak xul stuff left and right and also don't suppet webext it will be lonely out there in SeaMonkey add-on land :)

frg: i still win on misspelling as a lifestyle choice

Typing too fast and then just hitting enter instead of looking it over.

Devtools still has some complaints in 253.. because no CUI needs a simple patch

2.Next, Feature List, Planning and Roundtable

bau

I was working on a patch to migrate DOMi from an extension to a component

but stuff happened since then

as long as DOMi works i consider it essentual for fe development

and add-ons development

nsITobin I would not do this right now. Gone in central and when we come to stylo would need lots of changes or be removed in 2.53 too.

fair enough

AOB?

I am gonna try till my dying breath to keep DOMi alive.. i swear it

bau

IanN: not from me, bau

nsITobin I don't want to remove it either

The SeaMonkey Community Contributed Infrastructure was launched suddenly listing community resources and official links.. still largely dev focused but intends to be useful.

FTP space with web access for contributors and community members and administration for it is also in progress

along with a thing that can do wikitext and markdown and the fabeled add-ons site..

SeaMonkey Suite code its self.. no real progress this time around

*walks off stage*

:P

nsITobin let me know if it can be linked now. Personlly I won't contribute much. Strecked too thin already but nothing new here....

thanks

next meeting in 3 weeks time, same bat channel, same bat time

thanks for your time today

Have fuunnn

frg: yeah it can be now i stablized it and setup the cci-dev subdomain to continue working on it

cu later

cya

frg: the WHOLE idea is you don't HAVE to but its there if needed like sharing a big file without involving a cloud provider like dropbox etc

make: *** No rule to make target 'fun'. Stop.

need to add that to some Makefile

or make your self an old school netscape homepage put that at your directory root

nsITbin yeah that would be good. I do it now and then on a different server but need to remove it fast afterwards. Not really pinball related usually :)

plus I can test the ftp functionality in seamonkey its self.. no one tests that anymore

Yes no site left where I can test ftp or composer uploads unfortunately.

well this will be standard ftp .. i need to switch it to the secure version .. does seamonkey support the secure ftp version?

or ftps whatever one it is

nsITobin I am not sure. At least not for composer. But for uloads I use Filezilly or WinScp anyway. Just not breaking downloads is all we need I think.

And here the latest reinventing the wheel news: phoronix.com/news/Rust-Coreutils-uutils-0.0.29

potental for enhancement if anyone gets around to it

dear god

yes. Personally I would like to rip out the gopher remains. This one is really dead.

I hope everyone is learning C cause we need to take over once they switch crap to rust

what is still there? doesn't it always require OverbiteFF?

Redirection to add-on but this one is broken.

what will for sure happen with an alternative coreutils in rust is yet another implementation of some utilities with different behaviour

be back

didn't util-linux at some point get a vlock that lacked some of the features of another vlock utility?

ah, kbd, not util-linux

(But on this front, it's not much of a difference, it pays to check which implementation is being used and which features are portable, there are just some cases that aren't between different distributions or OSes, but rather between different projects; a notable one inside Linux systems is probably rename)

so... will rust-based coreutils rm be GNU-compliant or POSIX-compliant in the handling of / ?

Well me and rust will never be friends in this life. I still think it will be interesting to see how the current code will be maintained in 10 years. It is so abstract and might need a KI supercomputer to understand it then :)

re: overbite, I guess I never checked again about it being updated or not, so it still lacks that Init arity change?

working here, but it has that change made locally

njsg broke long ago with network nsIChannel backports. Tried to make it work but failed. But didn't invest much time.

njsg: tell you what.. if I ever write a gopher necko module or revive the old one I will offer it to the seamonkey project :P

Watch me to be totally indifferent to this :)

indifferent isn't a r-

an*

IIRC two parameters need to be removed, if this is the right set of directories:

njsg I think I did this and still didn't work.

nsITobin but it isn't r+ or checking it in :)

that could change

frg: I'll see if I can test this further. it's on 2.53.20, but the extension has been installed for a long time in the profile, so maybe there's something else

Like I686 I still think it is excess baggage in 2025 and I used gopher so I am not a biggot never knowing it. Was good around 1992.

I still known of an active Gopher server

--know

the Floodgap one

I want an XML based web still XML should be the basis of all

tomman: there's also the ones at sdf (US and EU at least), but Floodgap really is a place to focus on, as IIRC Cameron has a list of known servers there too, besides the search engine

Oh holy Zawinski, we beseech you to show us the way once again, in your name, NS_RESULT.

I just want SeaMonkey to work well enough :)

Well i could get all grandious about it.. it is a skill I have.. making well enough seem like cutting edge

seriously tho the priorities are clear but the wishes are many is the take away frg_Away

well I could wish for the moon but that is all what it would be.

frg_Away: don't.. NEVER wish for that.

I prefer the salt air vs regolith and choking vaccume

I should get some work done at some point though.

and I think I just discovered I need to do changes on AdBlock Plus :-)

njsg: don't expect any /Latitude/

when Pale Moon changed it's guid we hotpatched several extensions including Adblock Plus as temporary pseudo-static versions.. I contacted ABP about the change asking for support.. I got a C&D in response..

That is where Adblock Latitude and later ABPrime came from..

nsITobin well if you watched For All Mainkind you might think otherwise.

have to check it out

A bit soapy in the last 2 seasons but I really like it.

who owns the name "Chatzilla"

ChatZilla*

rightfully it SHOULD be seamonkey but .. i dunno was it ever decaired a mark by Mozilla or Netscape?

Mozilla has never claimed it as a trademark or mark of any kind from 2013 on.. trying to check earlier

I think there are no efforts under way to remake it as a web ext but we still treat it as owned by the former maintainers.

because chatcore also has irc

i suspect anyway

The Mozilla Organization never claimed ownership either

inb4 it's owned by Yahoo/Verizon :D

Mozilla re-added XUL™ under the heading registered trademarks

it isn't registered

though they CAN defend it by mere usage and a legal team

likely in response to me actually.. I am the ONLY person in the last year that bruteforced their way in and wouldn't shut up about xul tech until they banned me

This is why I don't like splitting developer public chat from user public chat.. users can learn if they are interested and contributors aren't put out

and you get a better sense of what is actually happening

I think coding async javascript changes the way people's minds work

where everything and everyone Maybe Will Return

multiple streams of async chat

needing formal forms of expression

so its easily parsable when streamswitching

javascript has warped peoples MIIIIINNNDDDSSSS

lol

fortunately we have Generative Autocomplet... I mean, GenAI to help with that

Overiterated Autocomplete Chatbots

that is ALL Generative AI is

and it is literally KILLING THE PLANET

as surely as cowfarts and your jalopy is

man humanity is gonna be boned when the evironment is wreaked and all the resources are used up making an AI that at BEST will respond with... meh doesn't affect me

that is the best case.. it goes down hill from there

They're having AI solve a problem, and then they'll need to design an AI to tell them what problem is the first AI's solution supposed to address.

Why does this sound familiar?

the real threat with current generations of AI is people trusting them without question and being fed nonsense.. like interactive fox news

I guess, in the end, the universe might have been a bad move.

I will bring #seamonkey with me next time I shift into another universe so we can stick together

I grow tired of this parody mirror universe

you see njsg

One might wonder why bother using so much water and energy when we already know that the result's gonna be 42.

everyone needs to remember we are all connected by data transfering electromagnetic fields.. science can happen and sometimes unexpectedly

njsg: if you wait too long say 200 years and make the calculation you will have to correct it for inflation to 47

but we should have starships and phaser weapons by then..

... I am starting to believe that ain't gonna actually happen.. though the real struggle will be to keep the elietes from ruining this planet before we sieze their own technology and shoot them into space like they were planning anyway just less laughing

kicking the elites off the planet that's a reason to fund space travel..

njsg: makes you wonder WHY they needed to get everyone switched to low energy crap.. cause it doesn't look like we have reduced our overall destruction of the environment or energy usage it was just reallocated.. I wonder where.

low energy stuff and lowflow water fixtures

... where is it going.. not to those who have issues getting power and water

i think it is going to god damned artifical idiocy

also big budget 3d rendering

and animation

If you think this rendered environment looks nice you should see the ecosystem we destroyed to create it!

before we*

it to*

I'm using seamonkey 1.53.20 and sometime in the last 24h all images have vanished from bbc.co.uk/news for me. I'm trying to work out if this is something wrong with my install or if it's a change they've made that's broken it or...

TrevorH: it's worth checking if you've accidentally blocked images from bbc.co.uk

images load here for me

or well, the domain they are using for that

tools->images was set to default, changed to allow, hit F5, still nothing

TrevorH: ctrl+i to open page info, media tab, check the images listed there and whether the missing ones have the checkbox checked

in my case, images are coming from ichef.bbci.co.uk

so look for a possible block entry there

it did happened to me once with some website

the tools menu image manager selection does not change for me after blocking, I'm guessing because the host is different. the data manager does show it under bbci.co.uk

but the page info dialog might be simpler for this

check any content blocking extensions like Adblockers as well

works in current release linux clean profile for me

there were about 100 things listed on the media tab and just one of them was set to block and it took the whole lot with it

TrevorH: " to open page info, media tab," er I mean "then select the Media tab"

no idea how it got set to block, I'd guess there's some magic keystroke that does it that I managed to finger fumble by mistake

but working now, thanks all

it happens, especially when one is on a rush with the context menu

look in page info under permissions

I think the order of context menu entries was changed some time ago (frg?) because it was easier to block by accident

TrevorH:

oh ok

nsITobin: possibly same problem as the tools menu submenu, it seems to show permissions for the page domain and/or host

sorry i was poking then typed without reading

njsg: OH right datamanager

i have an ehanced permissions manager from Pale Moon that I further enhanced that I used in borealis cause I didn't care for the data manager

so i forgot about it

can you share a screenshot?

me?

of the enhanced manager

I was thinking for a moment whether a table could work better to browse permissions in some cases

well its ehanced from a dev perspective its just the old UI with a nice header

and words

hold on i will see if i have an old build avilable

the permissions manager and cookiemanager still exist in seamonkey but they have bad coderot unless they were cleaned up past 2.49

as in ditched

cookie manager works IIRC

haven't checked permissions manager

the data manager does have performance issues for ancient profiles

or did at 2.49

Prformance issues seem to be gone with all the backports. Have seen no new reports.

that's good

For the old cookie manager don't check Don't allow websites that set removed cookies to set future cookies. That needs to be removed and blocks all sites somehow.

njsg:

I put some effort into it but applicablity for seamonkey is questionable.. maybe I'll make it an extension and override the menu items.. that way the older remnents can be ditched in suite core proper

nsITobin I put cookies and passwords in as a separate toolbar item

in 2.49 permissions manager was badly broken.. cookie manager was just out of date but the firefox version wasn't much different

even the native firefox 52 version was basically the same just loaded as a div overlay in about:preferences

I think I fixed them all.

entirely possible.. one issue i had when i was sourcing this was that each individual permission manager call was an individual call adhoc all different .. when i put it in Borealis i made a unified function in typical taskOverlay style

IanN_Awa<y put some more cookie types in. This needs to be checked a bit more for Data Manager and the old one.

something to put on the list of thinks to poke soon ;)

things*

I also modified the cookieviewer .. or was it the permissions manager to have the same basic layout.. so really you can't tell it isn't just part of the permissions manager

I was rather proud of that actually

The data Manager functionality is much better. Just its ui....

I think it works better as a window vs in-content but it isn't BAD so much as different.. like doorhangers vs infobars

still better than Pale Moon's about:permissions by a mile

thing doesn't even have widget alignment

and is webby

it is frankly embrassing from a design and UX standpoint.. data manager is just a basic multipane XUL interface.. if it doesn't slow to a crawl or lock up the main threat its fine and dandy

thread*

it's*

i guess it has been SLIGHTLY improved in the last 3 years but still.. I'd take the data manager over this any day .. ibb.co/D1zdM6p

the layout metrics on Pale Moon's about:permissions still remains horrific

to me

why anyone thinks big text big icons no padding was a good idea i dunno i'd ask mozilla but they banned me

it's like someone misunderstood how rich textboxes worked and couldn't be bothered and did this instead

cause they could have EASILY done some tricks to reuse this code i.ibb.co/cvkvWmx/image.png .. Page Info btw in Modern Firefox.. is virtually untouched.. I used it as a basis to get a handle on xul to xhtml

*gets off soap box and places automated turret on it*

that way I can get back to work on stuff and my position is defended :P

so my hotel lamp with the integrated plug.. only reading 60 volts i think i burned the outlet up .. and this lamp is potentally unsafe .. internet thinks an open neutral

cause it has a plug on the base of the lamp

i think i acceeded its amps

yeah I am pretty sure I shouldn't be reading 14 volts across the metal to ground

Might be the internal line filter if it has one

yeah will have to see if I can crack it open and see if its worth fixing or just snip it and electrical tape the ends

i only paid five bucks at a thrift store for it but i like it cause it had that plug, was a gooseneck, and took lightbulbs

unlike the built in amber color leds people have convinced them selves is like incandecent.. tho i like cooler color light personally

Probably not worth a repair if glued together. And line voltage can kill so if in doubt better pass.

frg_Away: it's still just US line voltage .. nothing to worry about as long as you aren't holding on to a better ground or drenching wet.. just a few cursewords really no proble

problem

Chance is not high but even a light one can cause cardiac arrhythmias. I only zapped myself once when working on a pinball and no harm done but I try to avoid it like the plague and doublecheck now.

well I have managed to avoid it since I was a kid so that also helps

well teenager

and yeah it smarts

all in all not getting shocked is better than getting shocked

Latest news shock me all the time :)