00:01:05 <oneforall2> hmm tried adding lib as a symlink to lib64 .. but no help
00:01:46 <nsITobin> we need to seek and locate where in the code it is.. It's too late for me to start digging into mozilla python lol
00:02:22 <nsITobin> I'm not a kid anymore.. I get tired after being up 16 hours these days
00:02:32 <nsITobin> ;)
00:03:06 <nsITobin> which is why I typically stop at 12 or 10
00:03:18 <nsITobin> and relax more afterward
00:04:07 <nsITobin> i need older cbindgen to build 71 .. too many things to make it work with newer
00:04:49 <nsITobin> the code crashes cbindgen due to rust being terrible.. emillio fixed it.. well beyond the rust code compat range i need for the moment so screw him..
00:06:34 <nsITobin> still further along than I HAVE gotten building anything past UXP unmodified
00:09:08 <oneforall2> I still love configure/make much easier to trace down the simple things .. hard coded lib , missing  #include or wrong path etc :)  rust,python.meson(horrible  lately for not honoring LDFLAGS  when no .pc)  etc
00:09:43 <nsITobin> not using the mach runner directly can cause additional issues because its a superset
00:10:14 <oneforall2> whats runner?
00:10:32 <nsITobin> i would PREFER to use client.mk directly like the old days and I can.. but it doesn't ALWAYS work in EVERY situation EVERYWHERE like it used to ever since mach was added
00:10:40 <nsITobin> mach is a command runner
00:10:46 <nsITobin> but also sets up the environment
00:10:47 <nsITobin> now too
00:11:17 <oneforall2> in the build script(for packaging) ./mach build and the .mozconfig
00:11:28 <oneforall2> ah yeah
00:11:29 <nsITobin> oneforall2: remember you have a custom launcher creating a custom environment for a custom build system and configure system that also has to chain its horseshit to autohell and standard makefiles too
00:11:40 <nsITobin> oh and its a mozilla codebase too
00:11:49 <nsITobin> so already half custom in its setup anyway
00:12:26 <nsITobin> let's do a test
00:12:58 <nsITobin> oneforall2: build Pale Moon just to verify your environment is capable.. I say Pale Moon and not literally anything else because Pale Moon has build instructions..
00:14:59 <nsITobin> it has nearly the same deps as seamonkey does but is still driven by python 2.7
00:19:36 <nsITobin> if i .. and when I have had similar strange pythonic issues I verify by doing the same because I have screwed up my system that has rendered it unable to build anything properly .. still dunno how i did it but i couldn't reproduce with a new install so..
00:21:37 <nsITobin> it's a residual benefit from years of driving home.. I will not play the commit revert commit revert commit revert commit release revert release again game more than a few times a year.
00:22:15 <nsITobin> so UXP even today almost always stays building
00:26:12 <nsITobin> Working is more of an uncertain aspect of that codebase these days.. but it will build.
00:31:32 <nsITobin> I need to get out of this chair
00:31:38 <nsITobin> peace
03:26:31 <oneforall2> hey is there a channel for seamonkey on matrix ?
03:27:42 <oneforall2> or iirc chat.mozilla.org
12:57:53 <nsITobin> oneforall2: I was thinking you did mention a lib lib64 mismatch.. Didn't you mention your distro was somewhat custom as well?
13:02:19 <nsITobin> there is a concept in virtualenv called platlib and purelib in a virtualenv
13:07:38 <nsITobin>  __version__ = "20.0.31"
13:07:50 <nsITobin> Behavior changed in virtualenv 20
13:10:49 <nsITobin> https://gitlab.com/seamonkey-project/seamonkey-2.53-mozilla/-/commit/b1b98bfaabc97f209f8354983d2b0a2ee7fb0dd0
13:13:20 <nsITobin> redhat likely alters their python packages to deal with it
13:13:38 <nsITobin> which is why I haven't come across a lib/lib64 mismatch in paths
13:17:05 <nsITobin> NOT TO MENTION
13:17:19 <nsITobin> SeaMonkey 2.53's virtualenv only supports up to 3.9
13:17:25 <nsITobin> in release
13:17:46 <nsITobin> according to the virtualenv code
13:19:39 <nsITobin> btw i figured out the real reason for comm under mozilla besides special provisions.. It's the only way the workspace hack would work it's a prereq
13:20:08 <nsITobin> so its a rustism
13:25:12 <frg_Away> Probbaly needs a backpport of bug 1732946
13:25:42 <frg_Away> 2.53.20 has lots more in already but not this one
15:10:58 <Sompi> "We're sorry but Tracking.postnord.com doesn't work properly without JavaScript enabled. Please enable it to continue."
15:11:23 <Sompi> even package tracking now requires the newest javascript and doesn't work on anything else than Firefox and Chrome...
15:12:40 <nsITobin> to be fair its not exactly easy even if they wanted to to serve a modern expectation webapp without javascript. Keep that in mind.. even if some people would like to go back to server side and minimal js.. doing so may not be feasable for a number of reasons.. few technical but important reasons.. like the current web/primary/ mentality rather than good old fasioned webmaster mentality
15:21:17 <tomman> I don't oppose to JS - used sparingly can enhance the end user experience (AJAX is actually nice to have, and not just in your kitchen!)
15:21:30 <nsITobin> i actually disagree with ajax
15:21:32 <tomman> the problem is frameworks adopting the very latest hot Chromeisms the very minute they ship on a Chrome alpha
15:21:41 <tomman> for no good reason at all
15:22:01 <nsITobin> that is A problem
15:22:04 <nsITobin> but not THE problem
15:22:20 <nsITobin> THE problem is with the entire WebApp concept
15:22:42 <tomman> That's a industry-wide problem, yes
15:22:46 <nsITobin> A problem with that is google forcing it and everyone using it to the exclusion of everything else
15:22:49 <nsITobin> ;)
15:22:51 <nsITobin> context
15:22:59 <tomman> but my biggest beef is with things that should not be app-ified becoming... apps
15:23:07 <tomman> for example, informational websites
15:23:20 <tomman> https://www.analog.com/en/index.html today's suspect. Analog Devices
15:23:27 <tomman> tried to figure out if they still make audio codecs
15:23:31 <tomman> instead found this... dog vomit
15:23:33 <nsITobin> besides, generalities about who is at fault is quite a dangerous thing these days I am QUICKLY finding out.. must be specific and percise
15:23:58 <tomman> because someone decided it was a bright idea to turn a corporate information site into an App-y Experience™
15:24:28 <tomman> https://cirrus.com/ contrast with Cirrus Logic, which looks modern and yet works without falling apart
15:24:31 <nsITobin> well i can't figure out what they do from their front page
15:24:33 <tomman> (and yes, they still make audio codecs!)
15:25:15 <nsITobin> i know what analog devices is just its a failure when the front page won't tell you or assume you already know
15:25:40 <tomman> they have spent way too much time drifting into those newfangled "digital" devices, yes :D
15:26:08 <nsITobin> I think they don't actually know what they do but they SURE AS HELL are doing it lol
15:26:17 <nsITobin> from JUST the front page alone
15:26:43 <nsITobin> look at the fish and the watch that programs a garden
15:26:47 <nsITobin> and WINDMILLS!
15:26:52 <nsITobin> tomman:
15:27:15 <tomman> needs moar AI
15:35:59 <nsITobin> tomman: AI controlled windmill fish?
16:20:40 <Sompi> and somehow we have a generation of programmers who are just simply unable to write vanilla javascript code
16:20:59 <Sompi> they literally don't know how to write stuff without using the latest megaframeworks
16:21:08 <Sompi> I don't understand how that's even possible
16:21:49 <Sompi> the frameworks don't do anything else than add some functions and classes
16:22:02 <Sompi> so how it is possible that someone can write stuff with them, but not without?
16:36:20 <nsITobin> Sompi: that is why wasm
16:48:20 <nsITobin> basically Sompi sophistication is one thing.. piling on abstraction after abstraction and only coding to that abstraction and then adding even more on top for PERCIEVED lacking support for things.. over 10 years you have a fuckin mountain of code that EVENTUALLY will be completely replaced by something else if not piece by piece never stopping never stabilzing never bothering
16:48:52 <nsITobin> does that pretty well sum it up?
16:54:39 <oneforall2> nsITobin  will take a look and see if I can find a rpm src for python and see if it has that patch to deal with it.