I am starting some new research into cross-compiling builds for windows from Linux. Hopefully it bares some fruit and is an option for SeaMonkey

to either use or not.. always good to have options.

I will discover the secrets. But now.. sleep.

Status meeting in 26 minutes - wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2024-10-20

hi

er, hi .*

here for the meeting!

finger slipped onto wrong key, on screen keyboards are no Model M for sure

ni all

Status meeting in 15 minutes - wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2024-10-20

hi tonymec|away

hi rsx11m

Status meeting in 3 minutes - wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2024-10-20

hi IanN frg WG9s etc.

rsx11m hi

hi rsx11m - congrats on getting out of google hell

always fun 8-)

Status meeting time - wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2024-10-20

Who's taking minutes?

me

thanks

Nominees for Friends of the Fish Tank?

Frank Lion and TPR75 for support in mozillaZine. There are a few others to thank too but these two are the ones usually chiming in

seconded

++

thirded

hi all

hi tonymec

hi tonymec

Action Items

tonymec hi

bau

Status of the SeaMonkey Infrastructure

bau. wanted to look a bit on the 2019 builder but didn't find the time.

need to find time to work with ewong on updating aus server

Status of the SeaMonkey Source Tree

bau Updated wip queue a bt more and these and that. Behind with reviews and updating central. Too much juglling around lately :(

Release Train

not sure when we want to do 2.53.20

beta early next month with final in late November / early December?

yeah any time I think

!summon rsx11m

wb rsx11m

modem hiccup :-(

:S

Extensions Tracking

bau

hello world~

hello tomman

hi tomman

hi tomman

2.Next, Feature List, Planning and Roundtable

bau

yes, lots of BAU

too much BAU

keeps us busy

BeAUtiful!

so Jack Bauer is now a Mozilla dev? :D

sssh

AOB?

bau

okay, so next meeting is in 3 weeks time, same bat channel, same bat time (DST adjusted)

thanks for your time today

yes, 15:00 UTC!

no stinkin' DST here~

then just an hour later than today ;-)

so... 11:00 VET

This time we won't have the mid-DST window, IIRC

good timing indeed

s@have@hit@

makes it less complicated

see you in three weeks and one hour!

also I suppose halloween is coming, a good one to those who celebrate foxtrot.com/wp-content/uploads/2024…pkin-carving-sunday-comic-strip.png

enjoy the rest of your day everyone

happy day

(wow, that filename *is* long)

c u rsx11m

bye!

cya

nsITobin Cross compiling needs much mores tuff backported. Because I kept msvc support also needs additional changes to keep this under native Windows.

not worth it imho

this MACH_USE_SYSTEM_PYTHON=1 is supposed to use the systems right? but I see it use added seed packages: pip==20.2.2, setuptools==49.6.0, wheel==0.35.1 which is not the sys version o.O

It uses the system python not all its packages

I see why now it's failing to build . its looking for /tmp/seamonkey-2.53.19/obj/_virtualenvs/init_py3/lib/python3.11/site-packages/ when it should be /tmp/seamonkey-2.53.19/obj/_virtualenvs/init_py3/lib64/python3.11/site-packages/

its not adding the 64 to lib

frg_Away: Cross-compiling was done long before rust and clang everywhere I am using 2015 research on the subject not 2020s crap. UXP has been cross-compiled tho as I previously stated G4JC never indicated how he did it.. never provided any patches.. and only a few builds I never had personal access to were ever generated at the time. Have you tried to cross compile to windows in the last several years?

also Moonchild refusing to seriously consider it because HE might have to actually change something.

I don't feel I can contribute nearly as much to the SeaMonkey project as I thought I could. The infrastructure isn't there. The code isn't there. The development process isn't there. There is no command structure. No consistant policy. And everything I want to do is just a slow-walk to Mozilla-central where nothing I actually want to work with on a codebase I have to literally figure out how to build over and over again from week to week because its

constantly broken.

I can do web infrastructure, web design, and minor xul bs. Everything else is either perpetually stuck as mozilla left it or will be on the path to block any change because future backports will conflict.

*I* have NOTHING to do and everything I can do doesn't ACTUALLY intrest me at this point.

except php

I think SeaMonkey needs a lot of radical and fundamental changes so it isn't operating as a mozilla leech from 2008

Will I be allowed to accomplish a decent portion of them evene if it breaks 20 year old muscle memory?

because if not.. I need to get the hell out of your development way and do what I can do otherwise and not be relient on accomplishing stuff for SeaMonkey to convince my self I have any tangible worth or the shit I been through wasn't utterly pointless.

tl;dr I don't care about Mozilla bugs and mozilla backports as being the deciding factor on if to do something. I care about making SeaMonkey the best it can actually be and following MozProgression has failed. It failed years ago from my perspective.

it failed before I even joined Pale Moon

for SeaMonkey

persisting and living are two distinct concepts for people AND projects

not to mention the simple fact is.. because of the development process SeaMonkey is even LESS forkable than Modern Mozilla..

contribution is limited to minor fuckoff patches and massive mozilla backports it's simply not a good fit for me.. I want to change things.. Improve them. Make them efficient. Make them attainable by anyone with as little grief as possible. And make sure they can do the same.

I still want to help regardless but I ... just can't figure out what do to do that fits in my skillset and doesn't have any potental issues down the road

or isn't shackled by a setup from 20 years ago

So I need to know what I can ACTUALLY do for seamonkey.. before i decide to do it and certainly before i have already completed it. I couldn't work that way in 2008 and I can't work that way now. I have a million other things I want to do in the same vein but because I am capable I feel NOT helping in the ways I can just frustrates me to no end

because people should help when possible regardless

and also frankly.. I have a budding nazi-subparty to unravel because it is my actions that allowed them to get to the point they could feel safe enough to devolve that far.

or more properly lack of action

The problem with cross compiling Windows is that there are no native tools for everything. Relies on wine and parts of msvc to do the job which I think is bad. Cross compiling macOS is better than doing ti native imho.

For the rest as usual not enough people around to properly run things. A fix here and there to keep it aflot. But I think our ui and general functionality improved a lot in recent releases. Just the web compatibility needs to be fixed fast or nothing will matter in the long run. So its backports unless more people show up and I just don't see this.

like what?

places and jsdownloads?

clear pirvate data cZ zoom and bunch of minor things which all add up.

ok that zoom control looks amatureish

They are not 1:1 mozilla copies.

i would have lifted the toolbar button from Firefox

ironically

I have been ignoring the decisions on the UI because I will always disagree with anything that wasn't retained or made in a way that extapolates the rest of the UX. So I ignore it. I can also change it to look at least on the surface like Borealis with a few patches.. And that's no surprise since it is dirived from seamonkey.. I don't NEED seamonkey to change the app ui to my liking I can do that my self.. when I can build and can be bothered. I am

talking about the platform side.. the build system.. first and foremost. Webcompat is irrelevant if the bloody thing can't be reliably build by others outside packaging or .. here.

Stop taking Mozilla patches regarding the build system and let's figure out what it actually NEEDS to do for the seamonkey project and if you are conserned about backports being a problem.. then either learn how to do it manually or assign it to me.. STOP altering the build system.. stablize it.

the build system literally should not need to change beyond added functionality which there is some but not to the degree it already has been.

I tzhink we need to go to about 102 or redo everything. Then we should stop rip out stuff like android and see what goes. Latest mozilla build system is urgkk....

102 seems the last viable bit if you want any pretense of mozilla tech of old

There are still things missing like macOS arm support and other stuff. beyound 102 it seems to be change beucase we love change mostly.

how many mac users does the project have

approx

hard to say but enough to warrant an arm release.

I always prioritize Windows first then linux then mac then UNIX_BUT_NOT_MAC

I also would like a Windows arm releasds even Windows arm seems to go nowhere currently.

Personally I rather invest in arm than old 32 bit x86

I think Windows support is something some projects will be debating in the near future

ARM has done more harm to the world and its population than any cpu ever

consider what the devices that arm processor has been used for

Mobile devices are suppliments and low power arm processors are NOT an acceptable replacement for AMD64

Windows x64 is here to stay if we like the direction it goes or not.

in a primary device

So arm and x64

well you use windows so...

I think Windows will soon be a platform that drives users away

but of course I do still use AMD64 windows and so does virtually everyone else who isn't mac or linux.. so no.. 32bit tho

frg_Away: be prepared for SeaMonkey to be absorbed into the crawling XP-style mindset just with Windows 7

I heard this 20 years ago. Didn't happen. I know lots of people using it and they will not switch to Linux in my lifetime.

No because they switched to google linux on an arm processor 15 years ago

;)

One of the reasons I try to expand build support and stay current there.

I love expanding build support.. can we expand it to .. the build system LOL

It's just so hard and then I remember One it doesn't have to be this hard and Two Mozilla didn't have to create the conditions for making this so hard for seamonkey

nsITobin: Windows has been a platform that drives users away since Windows 98

Win2k and 7 were awesome

but they really ramped up around the launch of Vista

and Windows 3.1 was a great operating environment for 16bit

cellphones are finishing the job

tomman: would you like me to soon re-write up the history of Vista development as I witnessed it as a pirate beta tester?

on BinOC not here lol

the sooner I can erase "Vista" from my mind, the better

same with "10" and "11"

maybe those folks at one at my banks are onto something, holding to dear life to their beloved XP :D

tomman: they did erase vista from everyone's minds.. they finished its development swapped out a few components for new ones like the ACTUAL NT6x memory manager not the tweaked XP one Vista retained.. and the server team had a pass on it.. They removed the green paled the blue and put a big ol 7 on it and evryone was happy

That's the tl;dr of course

speaking about stupid: I found yet another reason to hate Mastodon

Vista as a BRAND was way more fucked than Vista the actual operating system over microsoft dicking around with longhorn for five years

hate is a strong word

let's say you open any random account, say, JWZ's one

.. says the almost-not-a-dalek

and I want to find how many people he *plonk'd* lately

there is a search box on top, so I input "plonk" there

...it doesn't search on JWZ's "toots"

instead it searches the entire *server*, which is exactly what I DO NOT WANT

i have noticed each instance has different results differen posts some cross some not.. nothing is consistant so "reading something on mastodon" is literally different for everyone

I don't even get an option to filter "search "plonk" on this account only", just a "some options are available if you login" crap

not even the defunct Twitter was THAT bad

btw musk is a nazi

like a real neonazi

and bankrolling trump

and trump sounds like April 30th, 1945 hitler like its gonna be a Trump America or no america at all.. that trump IS america..

its shocking cause I been staying out of politics for some time now

the contrast to a few years ago to today based SOLEY on what trump himself has said

so any idea how I cab get it to look in /tmp/seamonkey-2.53.19/obj/_virtualenvs/init_py3/lib64/python3.11/site-packages/ since it wants to look in /lib/

seem like its hard coded to lib

XBL and any xul element removed COULD be put back into 102

not beyond that

and no clue how difficult it might be

but it is possible

I/we tried with 60 and there was som much useful stuff removed. I wouldn't tackle this.

I maintain any codebase with xpcom in control and has the native component loader it doesn't matter what was lost because it can be put back in one way or another.

XBL code from dom was removed at 72.0a1 2019

frg_Away: archive.org being dead is REALLY hampering my ability to SIMPLY remember where I looked shit up 10 years ago

that is easier than finding it today in may cases

i guess at the end of the day (save binary loader for extensions) there isn't anything wrong with whats being produced it's everything currently required to produce it.

I tried to make 2.57 work and gave up. So currently raise the water with backports :)

tried with export SHLIB_SUFFIX=64 no luck

it needs to be functional or at least LARGELY functional on 71 to push it beyond that point

oneforall2: sorry don't think I am trying to distract from your issue I am thinking on it too but no ideas yet

yeah not sure how to tell f its looking at an other package that Imight need to fix

export python_lib=/usr/lib64/python3.11 no luck either

remove objdir and python3.11 ./mach create-mach-environment

just a guess

tomman: try "plonk from:@jwz⊙ms"

the search ui is perhaps like the rest of the ui, a deep dive into how not to do things

njsg: "Could not find anything for these search terms"

perfect, no notes

it at least used to show a popup if focused with no text, but even then I never got it to work in mastodon's ui

via brutaldon usually works, although it will still be affected by the full text search string

hmm, brutaldon also can't show anything, be it with keyword or just the from:

oneforall2: now try configure

ignore the error

idgi mozversioncontrol is in tree

or should be

./python/mozversioncontrol/mozversioncontrol

local smokehouse smoked pepper bacon wrapped around cheddar brats.. good stuff

ok so starting fresh did the ./mach create-mach-environment cd obj-x86_64-pc-linux-gnu ../configure

yeah that makes no sense

same error its looking for sitecustomize.py

in tmp/seamonkey-2.53.19/obj-x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/_virtualenvs/init_py3/lib/python3.11/sitecustomize.py instead of tmp/seamonkey-2.53.19/obj-x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/_virtualenvs/init_py3/lib64/python3.11/sitecustomize.py

THAT sounds like a backporting oversight potentally an easy mistake to make .. Microsoft's solution was better system32 even if its 64bit.. and put 32bit elsewhere

any ideas what I can do for now .. sed, patch, or ?

oneforall2: no because I don't understand how virtualenvs work in Python

in my experience they work.. badly

but the answer is there

wherever that code that sets it up or directs it

oneforall2: try finding it xr.thereisonlyxul.org/seamonkey-2.53

once you find it then we can find out when and how it was last changed

then hopefully FIX it

oneforall2: