18:39:34 <tomman> https://www.jwz.org/blog/2024/10/mozillas-ceo-doubles-down-on-them-being-an-advertising-company-now/
18:39:45 <tomman> how naive, MZLA believes advertising can and should be saved :D
18:49:13 <nsITobin> tomman: yeah its insane
18:50:03 <tomman> aww, JWZ only blocked two idiots this time: one defending EME (because apparently Netflix is a "must have" for mankind), and another idiot complaining about JWZ being "emotional"
18:52:07 <nsITobin> tomman: why is JWZ saying shit i was saying 10 years ago
18:52:12 <nsITobin> literally
18:54:11 <nsITobin> 1. Building THE reference implementation web browser, and
18:54:18 <nsITobin> 2. Being a jugular-snapping attack dog on standards committees.
18:55:14 <tomman> I blame San Francisco
19:06:23 <tomman> https://mastodon.social/@jwz/113250642473455523 and this is the JWZ that pisses me off badly
19:08:49 <nsITobin> well i maintain UXP and Pale Moon tech was was fine throughout my tenure and certainly gets development
19:10:06 <nsITobin> he is right tho.. nice things were depercated in 2005 and have reached the end of long-term support
19:10:30 <tomman> OK, that hurts :D
19:11:22 <tomman> and this is why I now use Windows Me
19:11:42 <nsITobin> that was depercated before it was released
19:11:43 <nsITobin> lol
19:13:30 <technomancy> is there a trick to being able to follow links with the keyboard even if they're not textual? like on firefox I can use the surfingkeys extension which will label every clickable element with a pair of letters, or back in the day the conkeror browser used to have that built-in.
19:13:38 <technomancy> haven't been able to find anything like that for seamonkey; does it exist?
19:14:27 <nsITobin> i dunno i never even heard of anything like that save using tab and arrow keys somehow
19:14:44 <technomancy> yeah, that is technically viable but it's very slow compared to this
19:15:09 <technomancy> I kinda like seamonkey, but not enough to give up on the keyboard
19:29:12 <technomancy> I guess this is more of a browser for mouse users; that's fine
20:12:02 <njsg> technomancy: all I know is old, because I've not tried to use anything like that in gecko browsers for years now
20:13:13 <technomancy> yeah, I was able to get keysnail to work in palemoon, but it wouldn't install in seamonkey
20:13:27 <njsg> last I delved into this area: conqueror, on top of xulrunner, vimperator, pentadactyl. I think at least the latter might have run on seamonkey too, but not sure
20:14:01 <technomancy> yeah, conkeror was the pinnacle of browsers; nothing since has come close
20:14:25 <technomancy> it used to be possible to run conkeror on seamonkey but I couldn't get it working when I tried yesterday
20:14:39 <njsg> conqueror IIRC was meant to be Emacs-like and pentadactyl vim-like, but I pretty much could get the latter to be Emacs-like
20:15:09 <njsg> now never heard of keysnail, but it might be worth checking if it will work with SeaMonkey with little or no adaptation.
20:15:23 <technomancy> problem is webextensions explicitly ban rebinding ctrl-n and ctrl-p
20:15:30 <nsITobin> service smb start
20:15:32 <nsITobin> ...
20:15:35 <technomancy> despite the fact that I haven't opened a new window intentionally in over a decade
20:15:36 <njsg> in the base UI I suppose the only thing will be the tab key?
20:15:40 <njsg> nsITobin: Restarting service...
20:15:48 <njsg> nsITobin: Caching service dependencies...
20:15:53 <njsg> nsITobin: Segmentation fault
20:16:03 <nsITobin> LOL
20:16:05 <nsITobin> nice
20:16:14 <njsg> gdb: command not found
20:16:38 <nsITobin> i should hack bash to say Bad command or file name
20:17:00 <nsITobin> ... best make sure I have an alt shell installed before hacking bash
20:17:05 <nsITobin> LOL
20:18:02 <njsg> there's always busybox (it has its own sh, right?), and I'm sure minnie.tuhs.org will have sources for some shells
20:18:29 <njsg> technomancy: okay, that - about webexts not being able to bind some keybindings - is... wow.
20:18:36 <njsg> that bad, uh?
20:18:59 <technomancy> njsg: it's insultingly stupid
20:19:07 <technomancy> because it's justified "for security reasons"
20:20:05 <njsg> was that decided before or after preventing web pages to bind these bindings?
20:20:22 <njsg> because the old yellow webapp OWA did have that problem
20:20:32 <technomancy> that was a lot more recent
20:20:36 <njsg> close tab? oops, message marked as read, open tab? oops something else happened to message
20:20:39 <technomancy> at least with firefox it didn't hit until 2017
20:20:49 <technomancy> chrome had that problem much earlier tho
22:51:50 <njsg> mozilla bought k-9 mail to... add tracking?