13:20:42 wanna see how bloated the web is? surf at half a megabit 14:13:44 nsITobin: perhaps you should surf using Links? ;-) 14:20:47 seamonkey loads fast 14:20:53 and its a website 14:21:25 BinOC is slower cause I have a heavy imagemap and a soundcloud player thingy 14:21:47 xulorg loads rather fast 14:39:43 WG9s: surf in seamonkey turn off stylesheets lol 14:40:12 and images i forgot sm has access to permissions to prevent images from loading 14:40:28 nsITobin: was only a joke! 14:40:30 so basically i don't need links.. i have seamonkey with specific settings 14:40:36 i know 14:40:59 and what makes it better is seamonkey can be configured to be a mostly text browser like links 14:41:19 actaully firefox 1.0 back when trying to keep the download size small becuase many had 1200-baud dialup 14:41:35 how dare they break 7mbs for firefox 14:41:37 was supposed to be alightweight browser and is now among the heaviest weight 14:43:01 the browser project and mozilla alike have strayed so far from their original mission and project goals and subsiquent manifesto it is just defacto The Firefox Company to me at this point.. 14:44:30 remember: Mozilla is now a SV startup 14:44:44 ...or at least a bad imitation of one 14:45:51 i remember there being a target download size for firefox 1.0 was 5 MB we are now at 59MB 14:47:28 was the target size for the win32 installer 14:48:35 nobody is safe from software bloat 14:48:56 but from what I've seen, the Chrome installers are even heavier (if you manage to download a full, standalone installer!) 14:52:35 Just sating the entire idea of what FIrefox is supposed to be has changed significantly since version 1 when it took over the windows browser market from IE 14:55:36 and mozilla folk did not get it decided to concentrate on te WIndows version and sluffed Linux off to the side. redon Firefox took off was peoplle who wanted to browses were scared of the internet, but they had in their mainly an expert and the expert ran Linux and was using either the suite or Firefox for browsing and installed the windows version of FIrefox for them an taught them how to... 14:55:37 ...use it. 14:58:03 now windoes users run either edge or chrome and have no interst in FIrefox. 14:58:59 but as I have said before chrome is what firefox was meant to be before Mozilla pissed off the cief engineer hwo lft to go to google and come up with chromium 15:21:10 my 2.53.builds are now all shuffled up-to-date! 15:40:28 k so 1gb plan 69.95 for 2 years .. the promo was suddenly 10 bucks more expensive and they wouldn't honor that third year.. now have to go into town and take one modem back to get an identical modem 15:40:30 WG9s: 15:42:11 nsITobin: hi 15:42:34 hello 15:45:19 https://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?t=3124631 15:58:30 default smtp server does kinda suck 15:58:39 but it made sense in the popmail days 15:59:04 but is anything broken except expectations therube 15:59:54 oh, i have no idea, just point out what might be a potential issue. (i've never used Mail.) 16:00:29 therube: you've never used a mozilla email client? 16:01:07 no. only Eudora. & that stopped when google forced oATH2. 16:01:11 unless I am mistaken there is only an issue here of expecting the client to handle everything rather than what it should be TOLD to do but that is why I am asking rather than just default to it and that be the end of it 16:02:06 Oooh, a Eudora user. I used to hear good things about Eudora, but never tried it myself. (I was originally a Pegasus Mail user but switched to Gnus in the late nineties.) 16:02:24 real eudora or thunderdoratheexplorer 16:03:27 i mean it was great thunderbird and mozilla technology were highly regarded enough for eudora to cast off their own codebase and customize and extend thunderbird 16:03:44 Oh, I was not aware that happened. 16:04:06 thunderbird based eudora? 16:04:09 yeah 16:04:11 how it died 16:04:20 Yes, that would've killed it. 16:04:53 People who were sticking with old-school mailreaders like Eudora and Pegasus and so on, would not have been pleased with Yet Another Outlook Clone, which is what Thunderbird has always been. 16:05:11 jonadab: Penelope project 16:06:10 outlook express maybe 16:06:53 and thunderbird's UX hasn't changed much until recently in any radical way aside from style and icans and tabbed.. from netscape 4. 16:07:08 In terms of UI design, the difference between Outlook and Outlook Express is not really significant. 16:07:10 the LAYOUT and FUNCTIONALITY remained largely identical 16:07:19 well .. the outlook bar 16:07:27 vs not having the outlook bar 16:07:39 Oh, I haven't seen _recent_ versions of Outlook. 16:08:06 jonadab: sure you have.. just look at 60% of thunderbird's new design and layout 16:08:10 LOL 16:08:23 No thanks. 16:08:40 Already told you, I switched to Gnus. 16:08:55 I'd like to switch back to pop email 16:09:07 imap is gross 16:09:39 IMAP has a couple of use cases, but they're kinda niche IMO. 16:09:47 At least it's not webmail. 16:10:06 Which is the only kind of MUA the kids these days have ever seen. 16:10:09 Penelope was a decent thunderbird fork effort but i dunno if it satisfied eudora core users and guessing that its dead likely not plus mozilla killing projects 16:13:53 Eudora 7.1. My needs were basic & Eudora filled them just fine. It was light & did the job. 16:13:54 At one point SSL needed an update, & HermSSL filled the need. 16:48:37 My litmus tests for a mail client are A) can it _correctly_ handle re-wrapping nested quoted material, B) can it correctly handle threading on mailing lists when some users' mailreaders send In-Reply-To: and others send References: , and C) does the filtering system have flow control 16:48:42 Though I do also care about the UI being sane. 16:48:50 Most mailreaders can't get past A. 20:04:39 so only getting half the speed I am paying for 20:04:45 so I need another damned tech 20:04:53 cause its .. my stuff again never them 20:05:09 maybe I'll get some patch done today.... 20:05:13 maybe 21:01:05 the outlook bar isn't recent, is it? I think I remember it from Office 2000. Or is this a different bar? 21:02:40 But my memory probably isnt trustworthy on this, because I did *not* use Outlook as a client myself. Outlook Express I did, probably the one from the IE6 era. 22:29:13 njsg: I liked the Outlook bar, to the point of cloning it to some VB6 software I made back then 22:29:28 it was introduced with Outlook 97, which... well, was the first version of Outlook 23:50:22 so there is another likely a failed fix lasttime issue in the area .. also i don't even get a spectrum email address 23:50:41 but I have more than enough speed to work at least now