fireftp is busted

js syntax errors

no surprise

now posting the source to nightly/latest-253-nightly-source I seem to have write permission there and a beeter folder name anyway because makes it clar that this folder contains the source for the latest nightly and not the latest release

tobin: which errors? hopefully one of the known cases that might be just replacing constructs? or is it something deeper?

syntax errors some funky nonstandard trycatch logic.. some issue with its assigned var for gPrefService.. and other things

I am gonna try and fix it because its basically 85% a file manager already

and reform it as a component in its ftp client form

it also ships with an old compiled xpt but xpcom isn't bitching about it.. but i am not sure if typelibs can be loaded from extensions still

guessing it isn't affected by binary xpcom manifest blocks

mmm Borealis Security UX Enhancements. white for normal, red for broken, gold for secure, and green for ev and the urlbar and statusbar panel are consistant

code works great just need to update it for things like Ci instead of Components.interfaces

ignore the white menubar grey toolbox styling it isn't part of this just the urlbar and security button statuspanel

frg_Away: seems series files can reference files in subdirectories or elsewhere can a series file reference another series file?

nsITobin I didn't try but I doubt it. This is at best very unsupported territory.

> for things like Ci instead of Components.interfaces

Both are usually valid. Prefer the shorter one for less typing :)

status meeting in 20 minutes wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2024-08-18

hi tonymec

hi frg_Away

here for the meeting. hi everyone!

hi WG9s

hi tonymec

oh that is happening today

status meeting in 14 minutes wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2024-08-18

i been too busy trying to get productive I didn't prepare anything for the meeting LOL

frg: that was the shole point Ci was defined as a shortcut for COmpontents.interfaces back when we started to enforce maximimum line legts in the source

if it does not work for something old you are doing you could just define it and use

the old guideline at least as far as I know still is.. match surrounding code, don't make style changes as part of a functional change, and if in doubt ask someone

guidelines*

SEEMS like common sense but i never see it anywhere outside mozilla-decentant project

i think it comes down to consistant code style is consistant even if its an older style.. its where there are mixed styles that my brain goes wtf

lol

status meeting in 9 minutes wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2024-08-18

but the whole idea was to get a way to not make things hard to follow becuase of line braking and make it less likely to have to line break if everyone understands Ci means Components.interfaces I think the abbreviation just makes the code more readable.

WG9s: and yet Mozilla makes super long ass cpp functions like and this is only a slight exaggeration MaybeSomeDooberOrSomeOtherConditionFallable

hi .*

greetings the njsg

status meeting in 5 minutes wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2024-08-18

where is the IanN boss?

Components.interfaces is better for readability but you'd have to either give up the 80 col soft-limit, expand it, or learn what Ci stands for cause it ain't no longer defined at the top of every script no more

that was gramatically terrible even for me, I'm sorry lol

good question frg

he did change his nick to be ready

tick tick tick...

or is actually he both here and away. I am not sure e know if he is comming or going.

status meeting time wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2024-08-18

and reminds me of an old inappropriate joke.

lets wait a few minutes for the boss to show up

hi rsx11m

rsx11m: hi

hi rsx11m

hi frg njsg WG9s ++

frg: is Bruce coming?

ping IanN IanN_Away

The one I know is in the US :)

yes IanN is "Born in the UK"!

is there something missing in restoring closed tabs to restore filled in form values?

As opposed to Cheech and Chong "Born in East LA"!

njsg: sessionstore needs a lot of love

I mean have tab 1 with history A, B, B has a form, fill something in, close, restore, B's form has nothing, move to A in tab history, move back to B, now there is form content

njsg I don't think this is done. sessionstore needs an overhaul

Ok lets start Agenda

I am taking minutes

I was thinking the occasions I've seen were because of "sometimes it's cached, not always", but then maybe I should look deeper...

Nominees for Friends of the Fish Tank

IanN in absentia for l10n work

ye

++

thirded

WG9s for unbreaking comm-central with adding rust stuff from TB and IanN for adding a central l10n repo and coordinating with mmozilla so that pontoon finds it.

seconded/thirded :-)

++++

right tbrust

Action items.

Need to edit the website again now that our old / second irc bot is online again.

otherwise bau

maybe add a logbot.seamonkey-project.org with links to both so everyone always has a central location to find A logbot

hello world~

barely on time, but here this time

hi tomman

sup

i'm here now

nsITobin is it worth a subdomain?

perhaps not.. a slash page maybe?

Hi IanN we are at Action items.

IanN: so are fearull leader appers.

or just update it as planned ;)

greetings!

I am gonna rewrite the currently blank frontpage of my bot to link to the other bot as well

maybe setup nginx if 502 to redirect to the other one

Status of the SeaMonkey Infrastructure

nothing from me. CentOS 7 is now eol as stated and we use it one last time for 2.53.19 I suppose.

Mozilla move to l10n has happened, hence the work mentioned earlier for SeaMonkey l01n

not sure this is the right place inagenda for this but issues with things on our officail archive in nightly that i don;t have privs to alter.

WG9s: it's as good as place as any to mention it

so things what worked yesterday does not work today becuase sudently i don;t have rigtts tochange that file anymore.

so that is why Ichanged the lik to where nightly stuff is from the official archive site to my website

we should map out a plan to depercate and remove 32bit builds as well as bump the windows sdk to a windows 11 version

I acn;s upport this on the official site if i kep geting changes lading that i cant override

maybe we need to look at a different option for our archive site

nsITobin: i would probably say i would not want to bump sindows to a win11 ony sdk

or understand how to make it work more seamlessly

sorry i didn't mean to hit enter until you were done with your archive issue

WG9s:

(I expect NT 6.1 to stay around (in userbase) for a long time - but then maybe IA32 isn't much popular with these)

the win11 sdk shouldn't compramise win7 functionality

.. but have to keep an eye on it tho

plenty of W7 still in service here, but getting more and more eclipsed by 10+ :/

(and the odd XP box here and there)

need to make sure it doesn't break non Windows 11 / Windows Server 2022

so what would be dropped? 6.0 support?

or wouldn't make a difference in supported versions of Windows NT?

does seamonkey support vista now?

nsITobin: I only remember the drop of NT5.1 support being a thing, but given how popular Vista was, it's entirely possible that going away never registered in my mind

Did SeaMonkey ever support Vista?

latest version swupporting vista was 2.49.5

right cause in 52 moonchild dropped vista for no good reason

current min requirements read "Windows 7 SP1 with KB4474419 SHA-2 code signing support added"

as steted in the meeting notes no intention to drop 7 and 8.1 including the server variants.

7 is still supported for another 2 months anyway and 8.1 till 2026

sorry i didn't mean to imply as such i meant only the sdk for better windows 11 compat

but did it really VIsta was the UI it worked under a VIsta build but I am not usre syaing it really supported vista was ever a real thing

WG9s: an add-on supported Vista as it made the toolbox all dwm glass

I think we are derailed a bit. Still using 19041 for official builds. 22xxx works too.

Yeah sorry

Status of the SeaMonkey Source Tree

Vista support is out permanetly. libs no longer support it.

i don't remember SeaMonkey ever having a UI that complied with the Windows Vista crap.

yeah, it does tell that I've never seriously used Vista nor do I have any install of it. but to be honest if I did it'd be set to Windows Classic

well, the default theme kinda blended somewhat on Aero

2.53 and central are building. I am still on my wip tree.

my patches will be in for .20 right?

the prefers-*

prefers-darkgray and prefers-lightgraytext?

tomman: Oh i forgot that was called Aero. I kind of just called it Vista

nsITobin yes. DOMi patch needs a review.. Best if IanN does it. I am a bit swamped.

nsITobin: and this was being used by cloudflare, right?

I didn't do further Cloudflare testing myself, but IIRC something was said about that?

njsg: ye .. the critical busting one webwide is prefers-color-scheme but more frameworks are adding depenancies for all of em

no fallbacks

ah prefers-color-scheme, that's it.

makes my inner webmaster upset

as long as it is not used by CrowdStrike!

lack of fallbacks will someday be the name for the development method used by frameworks

ebay images are now broken than to another stupid update. Works with wip already but still no eta for wip :(

what is it with ebay images and xul browsers

this has been a long term saga with them

yes, I will review

i hope it is up to snuff IanN

how's going the dynamic imports stuff?

I didn't spot anything at first glance and it works but needs a second look.

pretty much every major JS frame-not-work relies on that junk, and since graceful degradation has been banned worldwide...

tomman it is in wip and working bigint too.

oh, cool~!

it's on the nightlies?

just the rebasis for optional chaining an regexp holding it up. It is more of a redo here so need more stuff first.

ah.

tomman: you should learn the art of patchqueue and build ;)

^rebase

find the whole staement graceful degradation has been banned troubling

nsITobin: what's the bug ref?

ha, I guess I need something to exercise that new Ryzen laptop other than building emulators

shoul i not be able to wite a computer progam that works I s I intend?

1912354

i think

yeah

tomman wip will do you no good usually. sites that need dynamic imports usually do optional chaining.

tomman: chromium or libreoffice come to mind

IanN: Bug 1912354

Aside of dynamic imports and BigInt, and CF relying on fancy JS junk for Turnstile, no major new offenders to report regarding web compat

tomman: to stress the machine compiling, that is

although lately Turnstile gets all afraid when I fire devtools and lets me in

tomman private public fields on it too with wip.

ah, had forgotten about those, but thankfully few sites rely on those... yet

tomman more and more. It starts to s*ck

off topic for the Vista lovers: ibb.co/RYxnNXf

I think mastodon 4.3 now required some CSS grid support to render as intended, but, that said, Mastodon is like a party for all these fancy JS features only a few browsers support

Sites breaking due to CSS are tougher to diag, since I tend to forget there is another error console

Release Train

but yeah, Mastodon and CF are CSS serial offenders of the year

tomman: heh, really? devtools presence makes turnstile hide its toys?

and Discourse

2.53.19 next. Delay is on me for personal reasons sorry.

Harzilein: in my few last instances it failed to render, but after bringing up devtools, it usually renders after I point the inspector

Discourse, btw, I intended to double-check, but might be the "revert" keyword for the overflow properties?

dunno why, but fear is fear :P

Discourse basically is "any web browser not made in the last 3 months is ancient tech that should be burned with fire" (actual Atwood words)

Have more or less a final 2.53.19 queue. Just need to formalize it.

I think build env is a bit flaky with the python changes but have only seen one bug.

Re: discourse, Jeff Atwood didn't care much beyond linking something I didn't read yet, but: jwz.org/blog/2024/06/modern-web-technologies/#comment-250757

(the revert thing is at least for when scripts are disabled)

tomman: i am from beantown so I say fear stands out

njsg we know. Best to discuss after the meeting.

(with scripts enabled I've read it doesn't work well)

fear strikes out i meant

The Jimmy Pearsal stry!

where are we? gen rel issues?

nsITobin yes

frg: is bug 1909061 due to building in sub directory of source folder?

IanN I am not sure but might be. FOUND_MOZCONFIG=/home/uhlar/src/mozilla/seamonkey-2.53.19b1/.mozconfig

I am getting a failed python 2 env error under Windows when recompiling. Harmless.

I build in a directory one leve above where the mozilla top levelis. so my objdir is under the level above the topsrcdir to avoid anh such issue

I got that too at some point.. of course the mozbuild is slightly compramised because taskcluster's removal and even if it was there it wouldn't match anything on taskcluster's servers anyway..

need to better factor that junk out

so lide for 2.53 i have a comm-253 folder and my objdirs are built there and then i have a mozilla and mozilla/comm for wher the source is.

Extensions Tracking

bau

let me check my fleet: no new hacks needed recently

haven't bothered finding out a fix Redirector's embedded JQuery breakages

2.Next, Feature List, Planning and Roundtable

(extension still works fine, but the config dialog is a page that uses jQuery and broke because of some... security restrictions?)

bau for me

addec security in the sanitizer might have broken stuff but no time to investigate:

> Removing unsafe node. Element: input.

frg: yep, that one

my stuff is broadcasted all day every day so that sums my status up.. Also learned that the logbot hates running out of disk space

AOB

bau

bau

I want to effectively reverse 686278 and have --disable-mailnews

:P

nsITobin as long as you don't expect it to be in the official releases... :)

but i do!

lol

well not enabled

I'm calling that a meeting. Next meeting is in 3 weeks time, same bat channel, same bat time. Thanks for your time today.

thanks and cu here and there

not official releases but official sources that is what I meant to say.. Also

can we put a take on the website for the next status meeting

somewhere

next on September 8th?

nsITobin well same. This would go very very deep. Not a fan.

nsITobin: Edit→Preferences→Appearance→When browser starts up→ untick [ ] Mail & Newsgroups

njsg: says my calendar...

yeah, I just like to check, just in case my brain is disagreeing with reality on that

we should stick with 3 weeks unless decided otherwise

seems to work, tho nothing would please me more than justifing weekly again

ok, have to go now

rsx11m: have fun!

nsITobin: we could always have a separate discussions about the website

c u rsx11m

cya

IanN: there is just so much to do and that isn't a complaint far from it.. it is just taking me awhile to adjust a LOT of dev habits and expectations and settle into a working structure that can allow me to regain the level of contribution and accomplishment I had.. I am much closer now thanks to frg's help understanding hg mq enabling me to build arbitrarily.

and WG9s too

IanN: could be worse.. i could still be on about the splash screen lol

Heya

Greetings

I tried to manually install SeaMonkey on the latest version of Ubuntu, quit bc it was like 11 PM, tried to download Ubuntuzilla, and then realized it wasn't working bc they changed how sources are formatted. Fun start to the week

sounds like it

I'm willing to give manual install another try, provided that SeaMonkey works with 24.0.4, but I legit just installed Linux for the first time like half a week ago

you'll need python 3.11 or older

Noted. I will see how to downgrade to said version rq

and the python 3.11 version of six

.. but only sometimes?

linux building has a few advantages over windows building in that configure telling you what is missing is a lot more useful

rustup to what 1.64?

and satisfy configure

and you SHOULD be able to build from just source

least that could get you by until ubuntu finishes ubuntuing everything

It wasn't that I encountered an error proper. I think it was just a matter of not being able to find the right folders to put things in

I haven't researched what all ubuntu does to mozilla packages so I am not up on the specifics

frg_Away: why is the icon for "graft" a carrot?

in hg workbench

With this round of browser shopping, I'm really just looking for something I can install without jumping through several hoops and can customize to match my XP-style theme. Easier said than done, I'm afraid. Firefox-CSS isn't compatible with snap versions of Firefox

I don't think it is supposed to be a carrot but it sure looks a lot like a carrot

Will ask around in Firefox chat to that end

SilverSurfer: good luck

Ty!

nsITobin before my time. Don't know.

but it DOES look like a carrot

i am not imagining it

or maybe I just want some carrot cake

Grafting is a thing in botany. Maybe a reference to that?

entirely possible

just realized if I want to file bugs for restoring the original home button icon when it is on the personal toolbar and my https security ux enhancement I need to actually accomidate lightweight themes

(modern skin home button)

news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41269321 Hackernews has Opinions over some rando JS framenotwork

the framenotwork is this: vanillajsx.com

and that page triggers two errors here:

SyntaxError: import declarations may only appear at top level of a module

SyntaxError: await is a reserved identifier

first one is this syntax: import(`./samples/${sample.dataset['sample']}.js`)

dunno what the hell is that, another variant of dynamic imports?

second one happens at this: const highlighter = await createHighlighter({

> Use at module top level: FF89

well

I wonder if "JSX, short for JSONx" could be the new "Java, short for JavaScript" :-P

JSX is a syntax extension for JavaScript that lets you write HTML-like markup inside a JavaScript file. Although there are other ways to write components, most React developers prefer the conciseness of JSX, and most codebases use it.

...

...........

bastardized inverted php anyone?

maybe it's to PHP like unicode quotes are to MS dumb quotes

regarding discourse, does scrolling also fail when javascript is enabled?

Excuse me.

... was it something I said?

no

it was react

ion

everything is fine

the CONCEPT of merged html and javascript is insane

njsg: react.dev/_next/image?url=%2Fimages…Fwriting_jsx_sidebar.png&w=384&q=75

that

is wrong

it violates everything and i fear this could be what happens next

shortened: react.dev/images/docs/diagrams/writing_jsx_sidebar.png

why? because customElements are clunky as hell to construct and design

to be fair, my reaction is "uh, they're doing quasiquotation?"

looks almost like that

I don't know much about this JSX to be able to comment on it

using javascript as smarty more or less

but at that point doesn't XBL make more sense ;)

Putting JSX markup close to related rendering logic makes React components easy to create, maintain, and delete.

exactly it violates seperation of presentation and business logic

facebook

figures

hard to keep whom is responsible for what .. but this is facebook's doing

I'm curious, partly because Javascript was already quite lispy in a way...

njsg: i mean javascript as an event driven little scriptlets was great it did a lot for the web

what bothers me most is jsx is like yeah html is just part of javascript

hello hardys

how goes it

Just have to check my new profile

my old profile was corrupted

do you know which parts if you are careful about it you can mangle a frankenprofile that is sound.. enough

njsg: i.ibb.co/W5hzrwH/image.png

nsITobin: a m&n-less build?

just like the old old days

lol

done properly not a rip out or a 2010 uhh what does this do lol not complete yet but one day

doesn't mean I ain't testing mailnews by any means

just the version I am switching to as my main webagator doesn't need it.. this mq patchqueue flexability allows me to push and pop my mods on and off as needed only them that touch configdeps like moz.configure are in any way irksome cause needs a clobber

and I can test everything

looking again at classic .. two issues are most glairing and they are the navibuttons the hovershine is way too harsh and the reload button blue is not saturated enough.. I think it should be more around the seamonkey .. seamonkey light blue

the drawing not the text

yay i have a history menu again!

So, is it true that: seamonkey since 2.53.15 deprecates SSLv3 ?

it isn't much of a choice

its nss imposed

Is there some way to include that protocol? I need to talk to some old equipment...

it would be work to do otherwise and for what a few surviving routers?

that's fine, as long as you don't have a piece of equipment that can't be upgraded 8-/

you could nginx and proxy ;)

I've come to despise https

andr01d: sorry i did sound more harsh than intended..

https has a place

just not everywhere

like AI

not your fault nsITobin, it's just that complete elimination of protocol support is a massive overkill

well there is a thin line between just giving you the blunt answer and coming off like Moonchild lol

A warning like all the other "are you sure you want to do this?" would suffice

one would think.. buuuuut

lol

but complete elimination of a protocol version support kills access to equipment that's not even across the internet, just across the lab

and that's the point

not SM's point but Mozilla's and the rest of the industry

nss maintaince against the grain gets messy quick, trust me i know

given that mozilla is basically a goggle proxy at this point

Mozilla was just a google proxy

NOW they think they are rebels and freedom fighters again

...

"saving the internet from big tech"

... who sold it to them after IE was largely killed?

Now I'm stuck, unable to upgrade for loss of protocol, and unable to access other websites that require new goggle shiny objects

andr01d: use an older version and modify it to disable the updater THEN use --no-remote and --profile to specify a directory .. a kind of pseudo-portable mode

So keep the older and newer versions?

well you can reloate the older version elsewhere

like a copy

and make a copy of your profile

yes, I can do that

I actually already copied the profil, which is 9GB now!

then with the OTHER older copy edit pref/channel-prefs.js to disable the updater.. and then launch it from commandline using --no-remote and specifing a direct profile directory to your copy profile.. it will run in a pseudo-portable mode .. also disable default client checks

I think I'm already not updating. In archlinux I'm pretty sure application self-updating is disabled by default. Only distro package updates

if you are on windows I can send you an old ass vb.net stub that will do it

oh ok

/path/to/oldmonkey/seamonkey-bin --no-remote --profile /path/to/oldmonkey/profile

I wonder about library dependencies if I update the whole system though

oh right this is a distro bit

damn

distros split it up

bin and lib

too bad there's not a seamonkey w/ static compilation\

I guess it could be built as such, but sounds like a project

Looks like I'll keep the old seamonkey, and move to ff for the websites that just won't work anymore 8-(

This is more and more of the sites I keep a tab for

the simplest solution since you are on linux would be nginx reverseproxy

(I have ~200 seamonkey tabs)

which is deadsimple to setup

consider it a security upgrade to your router to make it resistant to modern browsers

;)

andr01d

It almost becomes a security feature to use an old depricated SSL, then no one can access the site 8-)

all access to that old equipment is limited to internal IPs anyway

swapping out nss TYPICALLY isn't painful but gotta watchout for late model changes elsewhere

the restriction in the browser is only serving to fuck me

i feel you

nss i think is C code

so lrnC

lol

I am learning C.. just exceptionally slow

I'm pretty fluent in C, a rebuilt nss could be the way

might be able to patch your system nss for it

if you like system nss that is

I don't

or swap it out and use in-tree

kinda takes "fucked" to mildly inconvenenced doesn't it

least that is how I wanna look at it

Yes, it seems thee is a link to the nss in the profile, according to :

wiki says it supports SSLv2 and SSL v3, but somehow seamonkey, or the specific nss build don't allow?

check about:buildconfig

see if it is using system nss or its own

likely its own because reasons

might be as simple as rebuilding --with-system-nss and --with-system-nspr

but no clue the state of it..

in your os combo

--with-system-nss

--with-system-nspr

Seems like it's a system nss config

then it must be a block elsewhere

I'm almost afraid to ask in #archlinux for fear of a security circus avalanche 8-/

They are the systemd and "update every other day" fan bois

wait

did you try pref

how can I set in pref?

In SSL/TLS the choices only include various TLS versions, no SSLv2 or v3 available

security.tls.version.min

to 0

try that

Well, I'm still in 2.53.14, so I have SSLv3 support. I guess I have to try on a newer version

which requires system update, which is basically irreversible 8-/

nope

its completely gone

0 disables 1.1 and 1.0

on .14 I'm showing tls 1.0 and 1.1 enabled (weak) on that website, which is as expected (and why I haven't updated seamonkey)

I think your suggestion of the reverseproxy is the easiest way to support a newer seamonkey here...

i mean the change is in here but the queue is massive still finding it will require more work or someone else like frg to point it out

need to fork nginx

add 418 in

wasn't there a bookmarks menu toolbar button in SeaMonkey?

oh its there

lol

yes, in the bookmarks toolbar (by default, I guess)

418, had to check. reminded me of "413 is in" :-)

(one of the contenders for the first sentence uttered on the lunar surface, along with "engine arm off")

well the 418 i was refering to makes sure that you don't send brewing instructions to a teapot

I am not sure that request body is short and/or stout

..

it's caffeinated and tasty!

perhaps but you are clearly violating the HTCPCP/1.0 specification

njsg:

hardys apperently doesn't approve lol

either that or my aherance to it