00:05:13 <CaptainTobin> what do you think njsg
00:08:14 <CaptainTobin> I haven't set the link colors back yet tho
01:08:37 <CaptainTobin> https://thereisonlyxul.org/adhoc-testing/thereisonlyseamonkey.html
09:06:33 <njsg> Tobin: with that screenshot, you wanted feedback on what exactly?
11:43:11 <nsITobin> njsg: lol i am obsessive about my tasks so I already improved it even more aside from using the breadcrumb bar as a menubar and the footer space it is nearly identical now
11:56:26 <nsITobin>  with the html in adhoc-testing on thereisonlyxul.org
14:22:34 <tomman> https://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/eventpage/us7000mu1p/ Your Tax Dollors, Hard At Work™
14:22:50 <tomman> the earthquake map works, but the individual quake info pages won't get past the spinning USGS logo
14:23:16 <tomman> and their "supported browsers" resource links straight to Angular website!
14:23:27 <tomman> ...which won't render here either
14:23:41 <tomman> I've been banned from seeing the "you're banned" message :D
14:24:06 <tomman> (and yes, we had a quake last night, fun)
15:45:19 <frg_Away> tomman
15:45:20 <frg_Away> Error: SyntaxError: fields are not currently supported
15:45:21 <frg_Away> Source File: https://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/eventpage/main.f80a5ec62cd78ca9.js
15:55:29 <ContributorTobin> sup
16:08:44 <ContributorTobin> frg_Away: would it suprise you to know seamonkey has some gtk3 bugs?
16:08:58 <frg_Away> no
16:09:34 <frg_Away> I a usally doing only Windows and rarely test the Linux build
16:10:03 <ContributorTobin> specifically textboxes and input buttons that are gtk3 skinned have messy metrics
16:12:28 <ContributorTobin> likely some constraining needs done like the dropmarker jazz or something.. tho when designing it does mean I am either gonna have to leave search boxes and buttons either forced to -moz-apperance: none; so it renders with base style or style it my self which is what everyone on the web does these days.
16:14:34 <frg_Away> I know I had fun with the dropmarker when I re-added it after removal. Didn't look 100% good. I think too wide t least.
16:15:03 <ContributorTobin> you can see here the same search box because well why redo markup.. on the right where it is gtk styled and on the left as moz-apperence none https://ibb.co/Mf0Hfc3
16:15:40 <ContributorTobin> if i gtk style it it will do the same thing
16:16:33 <ContributorTobin> but this is not a web design issue but an issue in the widget code or toolkit stylings ala dropmarker
16:17:00 <ContributorTobin> or the tabstrip in uxp on gtk3 being not quite right
16:17:17 <frg_Away> I know that styling is a mess in the default theme. I am a css dummy so I passed unless forceat gunpoint. Under Windows 11 eg. the menu looks urgkkk.
16:18:50 <ContributorTobin> that may be entirely due to the window 11 guid in the windows manifest file
16:18:56 <ContributorTobin> if it isn't there
16:19:18 <ContributorTobin> cause UXP had the same issue and then.. it didn't and i didn't see it expressly addressed in the issues
16:19:56 <frg_Away> Well Windows 11 isn't ther either so someone else can fix it. So far no one reported it and it can sty this way :)
16:20:10 <ContributorTobin> frg_Away: can't
16:20:20 <ContributorTobin> toolkit styling is in direct path of the patch queue
16:20:21 <ContributorTobin> i suspect
16:21:12 <ContributorTobin> well adding the guid is easy enough and may resolve some issues.. which sdk are you using?
16:21:57 <ContributorTobin> ugh i need a better handle on hg so i can just make my own patch queue to apply ontop of stuff and keep em freshed up
16:22:17 <frg_Away> Usually 19041 but have tested 22000 and 22261
16:22:36 <ContributorTobin> cause if it can save work keeping patches fresh i am willing to do more work in busy areas of the codebase
16:23:01 <ContributorTobin> 22261 is fine.. 22000 was spotty on UXP in my usage
16:23:14 <ContributorTobin> 19041 is also solid
16:24:30 <ContributorTobin> i'd add the windows 11 guid to seamonkey.exe.manifest and use the 22261 sdk and see what the results are.. tho vm results won't help it has to be on hardware
16:24:34 <frg_Away> Never had a problem with it is far. For relase builds I stick wih 19041 so far cause there ws a bug about win 7 compatibility with 22xxxx. i didn't bookmark it unfortunately :(
16:24:44 <ContributorTobin> because in a VM windows 11 acts differently
16:25:18 <frg_Away> his was in a vm. No Win 11 hardware around.
16:25:26 <ContributorTobin> if there was a bug in windows 7 with mozilla code compiled with that sdk we would have heard about it
16:25:58 <frg_Away> When I looked at it the affected code was not yeat in.
16:26:16 <frg_Away> ^yet
16:26:32 <ContributorTobin> makes sense
16:26:41 <frg_Away> I can't stand Win 11. It makes even 10 look good.
16:26:59 <ContributorTobin> yes.. and makes LTSC 2019 look like Windows 7
16:27:52 <frg_Away> Well I am on Server 2019 99% of my time. Might switch to 2022 later.
16:28:16 <ContributorTobin> frg_Away: I am seriously forming the philosophy of nothing makes you appreciate the current version more than the next version.
16:30:41 <frg_Away> 8.1 with classic shell /Open-Shell did grow on me.  Seems to me the fastest one. The added bloat in 10 slows all current versions and it gets only worse..
16:31:12 <ContributorTobin> frg_Away: there is no advantage to Windows 8.1 vs Windows 7 save a few kernel tweaks for ssd perforance
16:31:19 <ContributorTobin> everything else is trash or the same
16:31:53 <ContributorTobin> i wonder when kernelex for windows 7 will start happening
16:32:08 <ContributorTobin> that is when I will run windows 7 again instead of another version
16:32:11 <frg_Away> Well if you use vms the performance is way better. Otherwise I agree.
16:32:38 <ContributorTobin> frg_Away: i never had any issues with vmware on windows 7 which vm solution?
16:33:34 <frg_Away> I use vbox. No issues but on 8.1 and later vms feel sand act nappier.
16:33:59 <ContributorTobin> you are lucky virtualbox has never worked well for me on any platform or system
16:34:11 <ContributorTobin> I have a sorted history with virtualization
16:34:24 <ContributorTobin> mainly, it hates me, personally
16:36:40 <ContributorTobin> There I sorted the link colors.. it is now identical visually with the main site except a menu bar instead of breadcrumbs, a search box, and footer. https://thereisonlyxul.org/adhoc-testing/thereisonlyseamonkey.html
16:48:04 <frg_Away> vbox forever https://ibb.co/D4k0KMx
16:49:21 <ContributorTobin> what a happy looking environment
16:50:00 <ContributorTobin> Aero was such a consistant and nice style when applied
16:50:57 <frg_Away> Yeah I like the Vista one a bit more in some places but otherwise the last design designed. Later ones are all crap.
16:51:24 <ContributorTobin> Vista had the blue/green aesthetic but windows 7 went white or pale blue
16:52:05 <ContributorTobin> I always used an msstyle that had the vista touches added back in
17:02:41 <ContributorTobin> have fun with that notice frg_Away
17:03:03 <ContributorTobin> tip, exclude aero directory
17:03:34 <ContributorTobin> Vista VS is the msstyle I use its great for windows 7
17:03:55 <ContributorTobin> too bad glass8 is dead
17:09:53 <frg_Away> grabbed the file. Will take a look later
17:15:53 <ContributorTobin> its basically my entire skin library lol
17:15:59 <ContributorTobin> up to windows 7
17:16:53 <ContributorTobin> Royale Aero, Soft Glass, and Vista VS are the best for windows 7 imo
17:16:56 <ContributorTobin> of those
17:30:44 <tomman> https://www.jwz.org/blog/2024/06/mozillas-original-sin/ how naive, Zawinski...
17:31:07 <tomman> maybe YOU should close that tanking nightclub of yours and rescue Mozilla from its ensured doom?
17:32:13 <tomman> (also, I do not watch Netflix or any kind of streaming media so EME/DRM can die in a fire for what it matters, but then I'm not a couch potato that can't live without their latest gossip factory)
17:32:57 <tomman> > I haven't watched a DRM-encumbered file since probably 2009. And that wasn't in a browser, it was on a TiVo.
17:33:09 <tomman> in other words, piracy has always been the solutio
17:33:13 <tomman> n
17:40:21 <frg_Away> Hooking sa pc with a borwser to abig screen wonT happen here either. I like to watch trailers and some shrt stuff in the browser but tht is is it.
17:42:01 <tomman> I don't watch videos on web browsers, full stop
17:42:19 <tomman> if someone links me to a video, either I throw it into mpv+yt-dlp or I simply ignore it
17:42:48 <tomman> but DRM...  ugh no, in those cases I simply pretend I never got the link
17:52:50 <njsg> I think it'd be more likely that jwz would show up here to work on SeaMonkey than he rescuing MLZA :-P
17:53:39 <njsg> next thing I'll typo MZLA as LZMA.
18:10:54 <ContributorTobin> I want to save mozilla
18:10:58 <ContributorTobin> but its off-topic
18:11:00 <ContributorTobin> to firefox
18:11:02 <ContributorTobin> so i can't
18:11:07 <ContributorTobin> njsg tomman
18:12:28 <ContributorTobin> DRM was fine when it was flash and silverlight
18:12:33 <ContributorTobin> not in my open source browser
18:13:02 <njsg> what is there left to save?
18:13:56 <ContributorTobin> the machinery and drones operating it.. they would be so much better utilized under BinOC Control don't you think?
18:14:16 <ContributorTobin> I mean I would try and save their soul.. buuuuuuut.
18:15:52 <ContributorTobin> njsg: consider JUST how much manhours and infrastructure goes into follow the modern mozilla developer flow vs the version SeaMonkey largely follows when not ad-hoc
18:16:18 <ContributorTobin> following*
18:17:14 <ContributorTobin> you can't just ATTACH a patch to a bug anymore
18:17:24 <njsg> :-|
18:17:27 <ContributorTobin> right?
18:18:00 <njsg> I still get the form for that, what are you seeing?
18:18:41 <frg_Away> You can just not with SeaMonkey. Bugzilla got enhanced,,,
18:18:50 <ContributorTobin> the phabricator extra layer yadda yadda
18:19:25 <ContributorTobin> but i mean they told me patches have to be done through phabricator and a 2fa verified account
18:20:35 <ContributorTobin> frg_Away: the way they described it literally sent alarms in my head that says: If you agree to this you will be a slave of the system until they drive you out for disagreeing too much
18:20:40 <frg_Away> Yes for mozilla and Thunderbird. IanN_Awy has set it up
18:21:06 <njsg> frg_Away: I don't have a patch to try right now, but it doesn't look different here
18:21:10 <frg_Away> I stopped providing patches for the other products.
18:21:31 <frg_Away> njsg we don't use phab so you don't see it.
18:22:14 <ContributorTobin> njsg: sorry for the confusion
18:22:40 <ContributorTobin> but yeah to commit to firefox or thunderbird you can't just attach a patch have it reviewed and attach a new one.. you have to use "The System"
18:23:57 <njsg> ContributorTobin: there's one thing that's probably positive about phabricator. it's not Jira.
18:24:13 <njsg> OTOH I wonder how different the experience is from Jira. I've used Jira but not Phabricator.
18:24:21 <ContributorTobin> now I am MORE than willing to follow MOST Mozilla Policies and Proceedure, hell I based my own crap on it.. but that is a choice to follow it.. being enslaved to an automated chain of glued together server components when Mozilla is generally known for being terrible at infrastructure integration.. and then the attitude on top of it.. no..
18:25:20 <ContributorTobin> I do not like atlassian
18:25:27 <ContributorTobin> they constantly break and take features away
18:25:46 <njsg> wait, Atlassian is GNOME?
18:26:16 <ContributorTobin> bitbucket was THE best source for hg hosting with generally github parity in layout and features.. then they added git then they redesigned it to look like a microsoft winrt app then it sucked.. and they ruined sourcetree's ui to boot
18:26:30 <ContributorTobin> isn't jira atlassian?
18:26:41 <njsg> it is
18:27:00 <njsg> I meant you said "they constantly break and take features away"
18:27:16 <ContributorTobin> no they are a modern web service company
18:27:18 <ContributorTobin> lol
18:27:30 <ContributorTobin> so yes gnome
18:27:33 <ContributorTobin> and microsoft
18:27:34 <ContributorTobin> and google
18:27:36 <ContributorTobin> and apple
18:27:44 <njsg> microsoft *adds* features
18:27:50 <njsg> didn't you hear about copilot+?
18:28:45 <njsg> meanwhile is it Apple which is reportedly trying to pull a political gambit out of "the EU is why you can't have iDevices with AI. Get mad at the EU!" [people rejoice]?
18:29:24 <ContributorTobin> i mean while I like the stratagy the source is china cause that is who apple answers to
18:29:36 <frg_Away> It will be a fun day when the realize the poured in billions will get them not much in return. Even funnier whenthe stock anylysts notice. KI has its uses but...
18:29:55 <ContributorTobin> so i'd rather have the EU than communist china.. but i'd prefer actually if the EU broke up, and china became not communist.
18:30:46 <njsg> I'm *still* waiting for Microsoft to connect the dots and offer an AI assistant... using MS Agent.
18:31:07 <frg_Away> The EU is generally ok. I don't want it to break up. Just some decision making processes need to be changed and the voting policies. Can't be that one country could block everything.
18:31:12 <ContributorTobin> njsg: msagent tech is still out there
18:31:23 <ContributorTobin> i could do it right now providing i had the AI part
18:31:31 <ContributorTobin> i mean I used to play with msagent in vb
18:31:53 <ContributorTobin> njsg: HOWEVER, here is something MORE likely.. attaching clippy.js to an AI
18:32:29 <ContributorTobin> so basically what you are saying CAN be done today
18:32:44 <njsg> I plead the fifth regarding MS Agent and VB and VBS.
18:33:08 <ContributorTobin> njsg: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4taIpALfAo
18:35:31 <ContributorTobin> BASICALLY you want this to become reality eh njsg
18:35:42 <ContributorTobin> including the epic journey
18:37:43 <ContributorTobin> Let's make it happen!
18:38:05 <ContributorTobin> what I should do is make an extension with clippy.js so he can sit in the main window
18:38:53 <ContributorTobin> i'd switch to links the cat and have him sit in the bottom right on the statusbar i would
18:39:00 <njsg> I just say not doing it is a missed opportunity from MS.
18:39:09 <njsg> and yes, I'd rather choose Links.
18:39:44 <ContributorTobin> F1 was a cool bot msagent char tho
18:40:19 <ContributorTobin> and I like Bonzi just not BonziBuddy it is not his fault how he was used
18:51:18 <ContributorTobin> pepperoni, swiss, spice brown mustard.. good sandwish
18:58:52 <ContributorTobin> I highly recommend it.