11:15:20 <Rainer_Bielefeld> Hi,
11:15:22 <Rainer_Bielefeld> We observed a rather strange image viewing problem in KANBOARD Ticket systems for Images pasted directly to the board. More details see here: <https://kanboard.discourse.group/t/potential-issue-with-plugin-pitm/3188/12>, might be related to FF on Linux.
11:15:23 <Rainer_Bielefeld> Some SeaMonkey expert here who is willing to help us with some SM diagnostics? With WIN SM I don't see any problem.  And reporter did not see a problem with a WIN FF.
11:23:16 <nikolam> Rainer_Bielefeld, There is also #seamonkey on Matrix and Seamonkey mailing lists to ask and get maybe faster response . Also creating a bug report on Seamonkey itself might raise more people attention
11:34:01 <njsg> I don't know matrix, but at least for the mailing list, IRC and the newsgroup are more likely to get faster or at least more responses
11:34:24 <njsg> aaaaaargh [censored] discource
11:34:50 <njsg> so supporting iDevices is more important than not breaking scrolling with overflow CSS rules
11:43:02 <njsg> PITM means it was added using this? https://github.com/Chaosmeister/PITM
11:43:47 <njsg> I've never heard of kanboard before, so can't really help much, I'd perhaps wonder if there are any JS console errors or messages when the feature fails, or if there are differences in network requests
11:44:23 <njsg> Rainer_Bielefeld: oh and also, just to rule that out, using the UA of a working windows browser in the linux browser.
11:45:13 <njsg> s/urce/urse/
11:59:45 <Rainer_Bielefeld> njsg:  Would be great if a Linux User / you simply could do a test on an existing KANBOARD. Simply create an account via http://newkanboard.bielefeldundbuss.de/?controller=TaskViewController&action=show&task_id=20, after I granted permission after your "Done" here I will grant permissions, and we will see whether Linux SM will suffer from the same problem like FF.
12:00:40 <Rainer_Bielefeld> Here already the public link to the test KANBOARD Task:
12:00:42 <Rainer_Bielefeld> http://newkanboard.bielefeldundbuss.de/?controller=TaskViewController&action=readonly&task_id=20&token=5eb02b71f9570d7fc8da168755974f1fb672cfeeed5bbf0931802ec019d6
12:01:48 <Rainer_Bielefeld> The test can only be done with personal access, not with public access.
12:10:55 <njsg> Rainer_Bielefeld: can you compare what address is the image served under for windows browsers? the address used gives 403 here (linux, no easy way to test windows right now)
12:11:23 <njsg> or did you mean the image itself needs separate permissions?
12:11:35 <njsg> (it doesn't load even inline)
12:13:47 <njsg> (there *are* several JS errors, but that, at first, shouldn't cause issues on specific platforms, I'd say, although it's perfectly possible there is something going on)
12:14:03 <njsg> (but those errors show on page load
12:14:05 <njsg> )
12:15:29 <njsg> ah and a "source map error" which I think was also mentioned in a github issue, either for PITM or MarkdownPlus?
12:15:51 <Rainer_Bielefeld> njsg: Yes, of course!
12:15:52 <Rainer_Bielefeld> Directly pasted into Text:
12:15:54 <Rainer_Bielefeld> blob:http://newkanboard.bielefeldundbuss.de/6849a15e-6969-4b0a-ab4b-0542e22267e3
12:15:55 <Rainer_Bielefeld> Attachment:
12:15:57 <Rainer_Bielefeld> http://newkanboard.bielefeldundbuss.de/?controller=TaskViewController&action=show&task_id=20
12:15:58 <Rainer_Bielefeld> Both work fine for me with WIN SM and WIN FF
12:16:17 <Rainer_Bielefeld> and: You need Personal access to the KANBOARD with an own account
12:16:47 <njsg> but that error seems to be just for the source map, right?
12:17:24 <njsg> Rainer_Bielefeld: same as irc nick, if you want to try to toggle permissions
12:23:01 <Rainer_Bielefeld> source map?
12:46:56 <njsg> Rainer_Bielefeld: only used for the devtools inspector I think, used because of the minified JS source
16:16:24 <CaptainTobin> hello hello and hi
17:23:47 <CaptainTobin> so is the goal to automate social networking so its just the bots that socially interact and just produce reports read by other bots that generate an infographic so the person can know how socially adept they are based on how well the bot generates content the other bots like and share?
17:23:48 <CaptainTobin> https://www.namecheap.com/relate/social/
18:51:33 <njsg> CaptainTobin: yes. next question?
18:52:51 <CaptainTobin> njsg: well I am obviously terrible at social communication so why don't *I* have an AI bot do this for me?
18:53:36 <njsg> why? the AI bot won't excel at actual social communication
18:53:44 <njsg> it will only be seen as excelling by its counterparts
18:54:12 <njsg> which is why that content will be reinforced by algorithms ad eternum
18:54:24 <CaptainTobin> njsg: Webrings
18:54:28 <CaptainTobin> its the only way
18:54:40 <CaptainTobin> we CAN'T REASONABLY run a search engine despite the tech existing
18:54:43 <CaptainTobin> so.. webrings
18:54:43 <njsg> with a ring of webrings?
18:54:53 <CaptainTobin> yes
18:55:03 <njsg> centralization might not be good, but in this case...
18:55:29 <CaptainTobin> luckily Son_Goku surrendered binocnetwork.com back to me .. and know why I registered the domain for? To be a modern webring.
18:55:35 <njsg> a ring to rule them all and in the google-unreachable bind them
18:56:16 <CaptainTobin> well federation is a thing
18:56:30 <CaptainTobin> webrings include other webrings because the webrings agree to be webrings
18:56:54 <CaptainTobin> building a distributed federated index of the web.. and then we hook a searchbox to that
18:57:54 <njsg> maybe we could build a system of menus with entries
18:58:23 <CaptainTobin> a global index lookup of websites like what the search engine was supposed to be
18:58:43 <CaptainTobin> .... DIRECTORY
18:58:47 <CaptainTobin> THAT'S WHAT IT WAS CALLED
18:58:50 <CaptainTobin> an INTERNET DIRECTORY
18:59:03 <CaptainTobin> a searchable internet directory
18:59:26 <CaptainTobin> but distributed and federated
19:00:16 <CaptainTobin> maybe after 2030
19:01:21 <CaptainTobin> njsg: this system of menus.. with entries did you say.. tell me more
19:02:54 <njsg> ASCII-based for the menus
19:03:03 <CaptainTobin> ASCII or ANSI
19:03:10 <njsg> entries would have a type, and a description, along with some sort of pointer to the destination
19:03:27 <njsg> ASCII as in what matters to the protocol would be 7-bit, but titles could well allow 8-bit chars
19:04:03 <njsg> the format could be made extendable, by defining it as tab-separated and leaving it open to more columns on the right
19:05:04 <njsg> types would be sort of generic, related to how it ought to be handled (downloadable binary, image, text, menu, ...), although it could easily be extended in several ways to include the MIME type somewhere
19:05:38 <CaptainTobin> Anyway we should call it the Distrubuted Modern OptimiZed Directory or .. heh .. DMOZ Directory
19:05:56 <njsg> I was thinking along the lines of Internet Gopher, but that could work as well
19:06:04 <CaptainTobin> i know
19:06:12 <CaptainTobin> the text specifics gave it away
19:06:42 <CaptainTobin> what was that gopher replacement bullshit job did that go anywhere?
19:06:54 <njsg> gopher replacement?
19:07:12 <njsg> the only thing that comes to mind is gemini, the other thing being gopher+ but that wasn't a replacement, but an extension
19:07:16 <CaptainTobin> someone was making a pseudo-modern gopher replacement to combat the web and its ads
19:07:25 <CaptainTobin> gemini
19:07:27 <njsg> If gemini I think it's getting some use, although I've never used it
19:07:27 <CaptainTobin> that was it
19:07:49 <njsg> last I heard of it, gemini: URLs were possibly being marked as malware by Google because Google probably wanted to use gemini: for something of their own
19:08:00 <njsg> well, in theory, the comments didn't sort that out.
19:08:04 <CaptainTobin> I dunno I think we need to split the World Wide Web and the OpenWeb Service Network into two protocols
19:08:23 <njsg> I say we start by versioning javascript
19:08:46 <CaptainTobin> I say we go back to EMCA 5 and rethink how we wanna do JS
19:09:16 <CaptainTobin> ES5
19:09:42 <CaptainTobin> ES6 could be entirely done with ES5 poly fills and is only justified by the later living standards
19:09:59 <njsg> I say we bring back VBS on the web, if we're going to have to deal with scripts, let it be with Links :-P
19:10:35 <njsg> there are perhaps nice things on the newer syntax, although it's really bad how it then ends up breaking a lot of things...
19:11:09 <CaptainTobin> Let's burn an effigy of Eich for inventing Javascript.. nothing burns like a good effigy
19:11:59 <CaptainTobin> njsg: let's fork the c language
19:18:57 <CaptainTobin> maybe I will just learn objective-c and gnustep my way to victory
19:19:08 <CaptainTobin> njsg: how does that sound?
19:44:37 <njsg> (loop (print (eval (read))))
20:51:07 <frg_Away> gitlab wip updated mostly python build stuff from 2.53 and from Myckel
21:29:32 <CaptainTobin> what are the new python requirements frg_Away
21:30:13 <frg_Away> CaptainTobin Nothing new just Python 3.
21:30:33 <CaptainTobin> 3.11 right?
21:30:56 <frg_Away> 3.6 should be fine. 3.7 for sure.
21:31:08 <frg_Away> 3.12 currently broken
21:34:33 <CaptainTobin> if it wasn't for all the python codegen (or if I ever got a handle on it) other build system options wouldn't be so out of the question like i dunno str8 autohell
21:35:17 <CaptainTobin> I defy anyone to explain just why Mozilla couldn't have updated to a newer autotools build system or cmake
21:35:45 <njsg> "Unlike Google, XScreenSaver will never try to make WebP a thing."
21:36:03 <CaptainTobin> Unlike Google, Mozilla, Moonchild..
21:36:10 <CaptainTobin> I was against WebM and WebP support
21:36:20 <CaptainTobin> h264 and png work just dandy
21:36:55 <frg_Away> I think we need to stop with build backports soon. Under Windows central is total cr*p pulling in gigabytes in ms tools for bootstrap
21:37:02 <CaptainTobin> despite the fact I was the only one who ever bothered to update libvpx
21:37:09 <frg_Away> And they are not even using the compiler...
21:37:47 <njsg> CaptainTobin: is there good documentation on current and past mozilla build systems?
21:38:16 <CaptainTobin> njsg: .. the changelog and .. well.. me unless you can get jcrammer to go along with you
21:39:09 <CaptainTobin> the current build system is documented on readthedicks but its all based on former MDN content and is sparse in places formerly documented
21:39:22 <CaptainTobin> more about documenting the bs like fluent
21:39:45 <CaptainTobin> or how to build and contribute to firefox cause that is the only mozilla application ever made right?
21:40:44 <CaptainTobin> .. ahem anyway
21:41:08 <CaptainTobin> njsg: the question isn't is there any good documentation its what do ya wanna know lol
21:41:14 <CaptainTobin> and I will try and find out
21:41:35 <CaptainTobin> you know.. typical mozdevelopment
21:42:00 <CaptainTobin> Ok next year I will document the build system
21:42:06 <CaptainTobin> which build system?
21:42:12 <frg_Away> don't bother it changes so fast....
21:43:39 <CaptainTobin> I could prepare some form of document that would AT LEAST point to more specifics by going over the basics from UXP, SM, and Current ESR
21:43:49 <tomman> time to do something I've not done in years: a new SeaMonkey install from scratch, but moving stuff like passwords and bookmarks and extensions...
21:45:28 <frg_Away> tomman if same user zip profile and be done with it.
21:45:46 <tomman> yes, it's me, but it's on a whole new metal
21:45:48 <CaptainTobin> maybe his profile is fucky
21:46:01 <tomman> and I want to remember how I did things years ago
21:46:07 <tomman> right now my new laptop FINALLY arrived
21:46:12 <tomman> also setting up a new routerbox too
21:46:32 <tomman> so it's time to relearn things for fun and profit
21:46:59 <frg_Away> zip it together and be happy
21:48:51 <njsg> CaptainTobin: I was just wondering if you knew of anything
21:49:04 <njsg> could at some point be helpful to understand changes or what was pulling what
21:49:34 <frg_Away> dir %userprofile%\AppData\Roaming\mozilla
22:01:18 <CaptainTobin> njsg: besides Firefox Source Docs and whatever is still on UDN no .. a lot is in my head tho
22:01:37 <CaptainTobin> Build System was an area i worked hard to be able to mangle into some sort of order
22:04:01 <CaptainTobin> I really should tho do a series of Mozilla Build System Classes.. The Pure Autotools build system (1.8 and 1.9-21.0?) Early MozBuild, Late MozBuild and Current.
22:05:08 <CaptainTobin> esr45 is where I seperate early mozbuild from later mozbuild cause .. mozconfigure hit the tree
22:06:47 <CaptainTobin> njsg: so whatcha wanna know LOL
22:09:55 <njsg> CaptainTobin: btw I think this page sounds like it'd fit the idea of webring/directory: https://www.jwz.org/xscreensaver/google.html :-P
22:10:30 <CaptainTobin> ALL HAIL JWZ
22:11:22 <CaptainTobin> xscreensaver is amazing
22:11:46 <CaptainTobin> I have mine set on flying toasters (because I got distracted from setting it to the one I was wanting)
22:12:09 <tomman> we should all adopt that privacy policy
22:12:29 <tomman> it's sincere, it's real, and it goes straight to the point: "we are NOT Google!"
22:13:07 <CaptainTobin> heh
22:14:00 <njsg> And Google knows better than trying to act against this in any way. Or so I hope.
22:14:16 <njsg> Do any of you know about that big house by the coast in Malibu?
22:14:27 <CaptainTobin> I think I am about over this Github is your website hosting crap.. Keep it for thereisonlyxul because why not.. but I think BinOC is best with active server side code
22:15:04 <CaptainTobin> njsg: is that a reference?
22:16:23 <njsg> CaptainTobin: Barbra Streisand's house
22:17:10 <CaptainTobin> nop
22:20:27 <njsg> knowledge of it was amplified in what's now known as "Streisand Effect". I suppose if Google tries to backpedal on accepting jwz's policy, a similar outcome might happen :-P
22:32:25 <CaptainTobin> The Beast is still with JWZ
22:32:36 <CaptainTobin> certainly isn't at Mozilla
22:33:06 <CaptainTobin> or not as much as it should be
22:34:05 <CaptainTobin> njsg: OH i thought you meant something specific not just the streisand effect
22:34:44 <CaptainTobin> i mean hell all those old and insecure redditors kept Pale Moon's name alive
22:34:56 <CaptainTobin> when no media was covering it
22:35:28 <CaptainTobin> no don't use Pale Moon it's old and insecure and the developers are assholes.. and it gets more users.
22:36:07 <njsg> re: build system, I don't have any specific question at the moment.
22:48:38 <tomman> it's like the meme that says that "Debian is old and stale"
22:48:47 <tomman> (ironically JWZ believes that)
22:56:41 <CaptainTobin> the issue with debian is not its age or claims of staleness vs stability its that debian is very opinionated in ways that are kinda nuts
22:57:28 <CaptainTobin> tomman: https://binaryoutcast.com/updates/