congrats frg

The web client of my messaging application has became unusable with Firefox, because new versions of Firefox stop all javascripts from tabs that haven't been visible for some time

How do spywares like Facebook and Discord work around that problem?

It should stay online also when the tab is in background

The browser even stops responding to websocket pings. The javascript client itself is completely event-based so it doesn't actually even have to run any javascript code to stay online

Also the web browser in Playstation has that same problem, it just stops giving any CPU time to the web page when the user switches to the game. I don't know if it also does the same thing for those mainstream spyware messaging apps

It's also possible that a game console just doesn't have proper multitasking

meanwhile, the mastodon devs keep pushing for problems for that solution. I don't think their web UI takes into account that tabbed browsing has been a thing for decades

that said, chances are it's probably meant as an "app" relacement for mobile phones, rather than a desktop-usable web UI

and I keep getting attacked by linux people because I don't keep my kernel in /boot and don't want systemd.. the exaxt word was psycotic

if the bar for psycosis is so low.. I think we have a larger problem than what and how I run on my own computer

you should go see what some people have been saying about wayland on Mastodon

or maybe not, that'd be wiser for sanity, perhaps.

your kernel has to be either directly executable by the boot stack or loadable by whatever can load and execute the kernel, besides that it can be wherever it is

EFI apparently brought the ability of directly executing a kernel, but that might mean not having the flexibility some boot managers offer (GRUB 0/1 does have a lot of things like interactive editing of boot commands, as well as a commandline, paired with a simple and readable config format), and I've been playing with computers long enough to know that if you give any opening for vendors to include

implementation-specific issues in motherboard firmware, they will find a way to do so.

remember when it was pretty much necessary to have a separate boot loader to correctly handle El Torito?

separate as in "not the BIOS firmware"

my efi always has some quirk or defiency

i seriously want to just go back to bios

my csm is bugged so can't even do that

in any event.. I cannot be assured any installed system is reliable so i MUST have independant boot control and once it is a system I build my self from source.. i'll still want non-os controlled bootloading

See its NOT psycotic to go around presenting yourself as a mutant alien in a minitank that hates everyone .. but jesus christ if I don't use systemd or rust or whatever well I am just psycotic and wrong

Remember we live in this reality lol

at this point I seriously don't get what the world at large wants me to do or believe in so I am kinda done trying to guess so failing that I am just gonna stop attempting to do things that just don't work.

and just do what I want in the best way I can manage.. and what I want to do is anything for SeaMonkey I can, an OS that isn't crap by design, and a mozilla web runner to take up the slack and start bumping chromium out of the "secondary browser" role that we kinda unintentionally created

which is percisely what I wanted to do before I got sidetracked with the bloody moon

hi

bye?

bop

frg_Away: congrats on littlebigint

so now that it passes tests does it fix the web(tm)

Still missing some regression fixes. Well into 67a1 now with Spidermonkey.

fuck yeah

can't wait until Google comes up with BiggerInt

they will just deem data types as discrimintory

and it all be unicode strings

tomman: oh fuck.. when I say shit like that it tends to happen.. DAMN IT

as fas as I see it they seem to want to make js more java like.

does it disterb anyone that the bouncing cow xscreensaver cows are fleshtone?

frg_Away: i'm not sure about BigInt, but in Java BigDecimal is useful when working with money

but then... if you're doing your backend for anything touching money in JS, you deserve to go bankrupt straight to jail

rust bytecode generated from pythonic java like emcascript

I need to stop.

all because C touched those kids in a no-no place

(yes, I do have bad memories from C at college, including that time I hit an actual HCF instruction! No, I'm not asking for a ban on C, unlike the average JavaRuster)

tomman yes used it myself doing booking and transaction processiong stuff. About 400000 turnovers on a good day.

Well I must learn C

and i must learn rust

to undo rust

back to C

well Ilike java the most here. If it wern't for Oracle.

frg_Away: its all about this supply chain buzzword I think.. because rust has no abi and its cargo basterds are design to be an ever evolving living ever changing unstandard library thus only what rust allows is what is possible and if you try and stay behind you will be in infinite dep hell.

whereas C you can go lolno and do whatcha like

i guess in a C-less world you can do what rust allows or do everythibg in assembly

for system components

removing that middle ground between coding to the hardware and coding to what rust allows

making C skills more rare but also less desirable

frg_Away: agreed - the worst part of Java is (aside of the enterprisey bits) Orrible®

Oracle yeah

really, hating on Java in 2024 is like hating on PHP - that stopped being funny 2 decades ago

they're fine languages on their own (yes, even PHP)

well i can't say they are all bad they HAVE kept solaris on life support and troll the hell out of redhat.. does it excuse their other crap.. likely not but they deserve to survive

for now

tomman: I love PHP

except when it gets strange features claiming to be like other languages but it misses the point

I've never been a fan, but then I have to admit that PHP have evolved a lot since I last touched it

tho that is rare or eventually gets fixed

use it as the tool that it is for the purposes it was intended to, and you'll be Ryzen

tomman: PHP at 7.4 is likely its height

now its all unicode, syntatic sugar, and making errors into errors rather than warnings also the virtual machine

but php8 has not been a huge milestone in features like 7 was

also more strictness

or php 5

tomman: but I really enjoy PHP and for the web its just ideal..

Because PHP was made for the web, basically

fortunately we don't see people making desktop or cellphone apps on PHP :)

...unlike JS

i do need to contact ewong at some point cause I am gonna have to adapt my new code to whatever SM's azure servers have but I think nginx and php-fpm is the best most efficient and simplest combo

(OK, attempts have been made, and I once saw GTK+ bindings for PHP, but thankfully those went straight to the bin)

if i had been a php coder when php-gtk was active

i'd have wiped everyone out with superior php desktop apps

lol

tomman: it seriously happened one day the world decided python was the server side web engine and everything EVERYTHING for php that extended it beyond php like say the gtk bindings the qt bindings the other graphical php stuff .. up and died

well wrt rust. Any language removing support for older but not obscure os in a point release can go to the dumpster. As with 1.74 and macOS

well tho I am not a fan of the humble overpriced macintrash or the propritary fucked over hardware apple and others want to normalize because linux is being ported to it

but removing shit in a point release is rather dickish

even I don't do that

ContributorToBin The mac mini was quite nice. Todays ons which have everything soldered on and are basically non repairable can go.

i just think supporting that will normalize it industry wide becasue apple has a tendancy to do that

macOS was good till 10.14. 10-15 and later catered too much to the ctrowd and now only there to promote apple services.

let me correct you if I may.. MacOS X was good until 10.4 and 10.5 and later became progressively worse every single pointrelease

aesthically panther was better cause that brushed metal really was rather over with by that point anyway

Mac OS X, er, "macOS" only exists in 2024 because of two use cases that Apple have been unable/unwilling to replace with iOS:

1) webdevs

2) developing for iDevices

tomman: I am sorry I dunno what a macOS is.. I used MacOS and MacOS X

10.4 hackintrash

on amd no less

ironically the latest crop of iPads have enough muscle to send Macbooks to pasture, it's just Apple that refuses to uncripple the software bit

in the meanwhile the Macbooks just got... a notch

On a LAPTOP

to be clear frg_Away I am only talking about not targeting apple silicon on an OS level.. unless we make SeaMonkey into the OS.. which don't tempt me.. I am warning you.. I am not at all suggesting you should drop mac or start being mean to apple users.. I have to say this crap because reasons.

apple silicon needs notarizing. Unless someone volunteers not a thing. I pass. Too much on the platter.

apple silicon needs to basically bankrupt apple so it can join steve jobs in hell

90% of SV hipsters are ensuring that will NEVER happen :/

I wonder if UXP is gonna be ported to apple silicon

_nuke_ would know

I think dbsoft has already done it

same difference lol

in case you didn't know

save the desktop

lol

with nocsd and not-mutter as a window manager they are ACTUALLY not bad to use.. even with hamburger and doorhanger menus

the GTK4 versions tho look horrific

I did not know what would make me like GTK3.. BUT never underestimate Gnome developers GTK4 just basically justified GTK3's contiuence

what did GNOME break now?

have they at least changed the meaning of the G in GTK to match reality? :-P

they broke my hate of GTK3 because 4 is worse?

isn't that enough of a disaster

lol

the only way I see them making GTK3 more bearable is if they stop doing changes to theming because they're too busy doing GTK4

rust is probably more stable than the GTK+3 theme syntax.

well I can drop the quarts backend the win32 backend in GTK3 its self making it X11 and Wayland only

quartz

there are also lots of stuff I could eventually pair down change and add to improve as-is gtk3 apps

and their styles and shit

why even bother with gtk3 and gnome, just let them die in their own irrelevance and rebuild applications where possible e.g xscreensaver

and wait for OpenMATE™

:P

MATE should have forked GTK2, alas, they went with the whole "we need GTK3 for Wayland"

tomman: That's what i'm doing

both mate and tde were mishandled

Lack of manpower and general community interest didn't help :/

nah, those were deliberate decisions

mrnhmath: i been meaning to speak with you

no i think openmate is a fantastic idea

and want to throw it in to my linux offerings particularly the one using EL

really mate should have been gtk2 forked the moment gtk3 started happening

but..

There are certain GTK3 gnome components I rely on and unlike TheSquish I like to keep my vaporware contained to Borealis Navigator

not to mention Mozilla isn't gonna keep GTK3 building around.. and I can deal with it while it is still in the tree via Mark III

ContributorTobin: i really don't think it's too late for this stuff

gnome is still widely disregarded but the alternatives aren't better

so that's why i took the initiative

it's just that i don't have much time for hobby work these days

besides I am forking gnome components as general system components of sufficent functionality and maturity for any desktop to just use and I wanna decouple them from the gnome-shell gnome-desktop deps if possible.. YOU are doing a complete desktop and a specific one.. and I totally approve should have happened 10 years ago

yeah it's a complete de plus some stuff they never forked

mrnhmath: i mean unless you wanna change gnome2 into Windows 3.1 for me lol

but at the very least the squash did a cool port of raleigh to gtk3 CaptainTobin

it has issues

lol

but yeah

but i think if i used it on the gtk version it was released for it would be almost indisingishable

i just saw on github, never used it

it's been a long time since i used linux at home

i really need to get openmate going, the renaming stuff

mrnhmath: ibb.co/rKP5W6x

That's a BinOC Environment if ever you saw one

which wm are you using?

openbox

Openbox, Picom, LXTerminal, Gnome Disks, File-roller, nemo and xed

gtk theme is kde breeze

icons are oxygen when not monochrome abombinations

the only downside is no system tray

need to figure out a solution for that

cause I don't need to run a full on panel

just a .. systembar with a tray clock and maybe desktop pager

mrnhmath: you hear? SeaMonkey's js engine is approx eq to 67a1

now

By the Patch Queue we live by the Patch Queue we fork.

CaptainTobin: oxygen icons > widgets

i hate flat stuff but kde 4 was something else

I have become ok with well designed flatness but I do prefer adding some gradients and of course nice colorful icons

like you have the artwiz-boxed theme with the breeze theme and if it had more oxygen icons it would be a nice balance of clean color and artful art

i agree, i never thought breeze was that bad as some claim

the titlebars and the symbolic icons are what drag it down

titlebar/windowframe

i liked the older titlebar with the subtle gradient

KDE4 looked like web2.0 fucked aero until it exploded

sorry

but there it is

lol true

also the start of qml

qml is evil

I'd fork QT5 but only the non-qml parts

but then i rememembered when I was looking at kde apps that ALL of them are terrible or broken or both

save kdiff3

trinity really fumbled the qt fork bag

<3 kdiff3

trinity .. if you will take this objectively.. is Pale Moon before UXP. Because Tycho and the liberation codebase (24-26) has everything uxp has more or less but before UXP it all rotted or became slaved to Pale Moon because well Moonchild did stuff like that before I overlayed Mozilla ontop of his Mozilla project

KDE is fucking massive and most of trinity is rotting away, with broad pointless renames of stuff and bizare code integration that is not at all proper to the stuff they are doing.. They put up a very nice show but the quality of the code and the advancements of the components is almost non-existant

hear hear

it's too bad qt1 is not real open source because kde1 is just sitting there rotting away again

so that's why i'll do standalone messenger

and phoenix ~23 for xulrunner

mrnhmath: don't you have a uxprunner now

uxprunner? i like it

and standalone composer

cheeky

standalone composer

have you managed to do anything towards that?

everything's still on the backlog

you gonna try and ifdef a suite into its components or gonna borealis it

i have only got openmate on testing

CaptainTobin: def not ifdefing suite

you will have to to get started

trust me

it isn't like you can start with komozer or anything

getting started is the problem :P

basically suite.. set glue to open editor set all the protocols to external apps.. remove mailnews .. then start removing browser components like library and crap then remove navigator then start collapsing communicator into editor and boom Standalone Composer.. add some quality of life features and previous composer fork advancements.. done

i have simply had longer to think about it is all mrnhmath I am sure once you jump in and get so far you will figure out some variation on that

be sure to follow some of SeaMonkey's work cause they made the toolbar customizable finally

consider the bulk of it code cleanup until you get down to just the editor and pieces it needs

great fun

for me a good weekend project were I still inclined to do it

to get it to the point of being a standalone composer

if i were to work on mozdev now i would look at standalone messenger CaptainTobin

what messenger?

mail & news

at that code level mailnews is a bit of a mess

i had already started some separation work

its kinda underdeveloped vs say Interlink

MailNews is more dependant on Navigator than Navigator is on on MailNews

that is really an excersize in futility consider the fact that mailnews core in UXP is not being properly developed and basically email if its a webmail service is a constant moving target

this is why I did not just do that for Interlink

which was my original intention

the UI bits

the second part is why I basically gave up

i think my hatred for thunderbird is bigger than any hurdle i might encounter

no it isn't

because mine wasn't

mrnhmath: what would be a BETTER use of your time is continue the seperation but into.. an extension

epic bonus points if you can get incomplete external linkage to work so the mailnews et all can be in an extension as a binary xpcom component

MailNews as an Extension .. supports the xulrunner concept

yeah

Personally I would rather see help with the 2.53 code. Contrary to popular believe we are not the bad guys, will not phase out classic extensions in this life and that web ext is not a replacement is quite clear. Adding support for it might be an option and some is already in but that is it. There are more than enough forks around already.

phoenix 23 over xulrunner will be fun though

seamonkey is not the bad guys never was and really all the shit I had against frg was merely transfered from Neil and Kairo.. so

you're all doing great with 2.53 frg_Away

mrnhmath: let moonchild know if he wants to not be consider the bad guys then he should start branching out and helping other efforts like SeaMonkey let him know whomever pissed him off in 2009 likely isn't here anymore and was likely NeilAway or KaiRo.. so who cares..

also why are the xphreaks still clinging on crusty webext code

Still most is backporting. Composer could use fixes and mailnews also some cleanups. Lets just say help would be appreciated.

the whole UI needs a polish run as well as a code clean up sweep .. but who has time for it lol

mrnhmath: why are the xpeople at all

I had one play me for four months this year

let's get Arvid Axelsson to design new icons for us all

they fucked up when they admitted to basically supporting pedophillia and being involved with tha firefox fork that embedded furry pornography in .. all while in Mozilla Introduction trying to get Firefox developers to tell him how to make Interlink.. work on windows xp with dbm

i shit you not

weird people

if we can call them that

mrnhmath: seriously i want the forum to know these xp users try and get Pale Moon and Interlink support for Windows XP building from Mozilla diretly

well moonchild seems to be pi**ed about us/me when we didn't immediately agree to a cooperation. At this time I still hoped we would be able to cooperate more with TB. He seems to have taken it personally then but all that happend was that no final yes/no answer was ever given.

x-people

frg_Away: you weren't even .. existing when Moonchild got pissed at SeaMonkey cause he wanted to fork it and didn't.. and you'll like this.. properly rebrand it

oh the UXP thing

well

okay

i can't fault you there

well why is he still pissed off about you not joining UXP.. Alex didn't either

no one did

Maybe but later I was. There is a rant post about it in the forum. I don't have a link and it is history anyway. UXP and our codebase are now divergent.

yeah they ARE different animals

it isn't like I presented it well either

I am not mad about it anymore

Thunderbird i dunno on one hand they did seem up until the 70s be doing stuff for SeaMonkey buildability and shared features but once they decided they were just gonna redo everything they put their translated bindings in sm's directory and kinda stopped caring

judging by the code commits

I do know today they want sm out of c-c

which is a shame

but i was unable to determine if they would, should you decide to just jump back on if they would cooperate again

even when I showed em the screenshot of navigator.html with their own overlay emulation

I know what post you mean frg_Away and I participated and I am sorry.

as I stated it is history.

clear history

LOL

if only

well if Moonchild is upset at stuff and things by 2025.. mrnhmath frg_Away I will just port Pale Moon to seamonkey's platform along with basilisk and interlink and render UXP pointless.

cause that will be over 3 years of being angry about stuff from over 3 years prior

and that's no good for anyone

luckily all the frontends typically don't involve code features from too far beyond where it was forked from so it won't have a lot of UXP's more ultra-new js features

that may mismatch