00:03:28 man everyone is dead 00:03:37 from 3pm on 00:03:38 lol 00:29:40 I told you, coffee. 00:40:39 njsg: you DO keep telling me that 00:41:53 njsg: so which distro should I install on this server before I install centos stream 9 and apache and start making a better add-ons site 00:42:19 cause I have a pxe netboot.xyz iso i can install.. a number of things 00:53:53 oh my gawd, one of my banks online banking portal hijacks the Ctrl key 00:54:01 I can't Ctrl+T to open a new tab 00:54:13 this bank keeps giving me reasons to HATE THEM HARD 00:54:23 (these are the same bozos from the Clownflare banking sagsa) 00:54:33 its not a website 00:54:35 its a webapp 00:55:32 hey tomman you ever use any multipackage extensions? like more than 1 extension in an xpi? 00:55:46 didn't knew such a thing existed 00:55:59 good not many remember 00:56:26 its a pain in the ass cause the xpi has an install manifest and id its own but when its installed it vanishes after it installs its payload 00:56:37 also sounds fishy when phrased that way 00:56:38 lol 00:57:43 well I'll put centos stream 9 on that vm tomorrow.. it is late 02:05:05 what about banking websites that dont allow u to paste into a password field? 02:05:23 or mandates that passwords have max of 9 digits and must be numbers only? 02:19:03 oh, the bozos won't stop there 02:19:19 I'm trying to pay a service, say, a cable or phone bill 02:19:46 you select provider, subscriber number, and the bank will tell how much money is due 02:20:00 on any sane banking webapp you simply tick the relevant radio box and pay 02:20:05 ...not on this one, no sir 02:20:26 instead you get two textboxes: one with the amount due (read only), and another one where you're supposed to type in how much you want to pay 02:20:40 but this specific service provider does NOT accept partial payments! 02:21:05 And you can't copy&paste the amount, no sir, that operation is Restricted For Your Security™ 03:36:09 is it not possible to just type the amoount 08:38:19 "we've restricted copy paste for security reasons, but passwords can only be up to 9 [[:digit:]]" 08:38:37 fun. 09:35:09 lame 09:35:18 the complete opposite of security 09:35:38 what security reason is behind not being able to paste? 09:35:47 not being able to copy i can understand 09:35:49 paste? 14:41:10 jesus chirst 14:41:52 CaptainTobin he is not here Should I call him? 14:42:19 i must be a criminal .. cricket won't let me do anything on the website but pay my bill.. everything else requires the app... so i curse and mention something about the total extermination of cricket and then download the app.. it first thing wants my fuckin fingerprint 14:44:02 i am gonna lower the plan to 1gb 15 dollar plan and they can fuck off.. and if I can't pay my bill with a web client then i won't be able to pay.. not only are touchscreens phsyically difficult to use beyond a big fat action button.. but i don't want my billing on a device i can loose and can be remotely compramised by some means 14:44:34 ALSO MEANS i can't put linux on it cause then i can't access the app which will eventually REQUIRE a fucking fingerprint because I guess I am a criminal frg_Away 14:45:34 you hear that Son_Goku 14:45:44 anyway i am over it 14:46:01 Yes frg_Away I would like a meeting with Jesus Christ, please arrange it. 14:46:45 I will see what I can do. Have been somewhat out of favor lately. 14:48:10 well I'll settle for South Park jesus.. he is more popular 14:49:08 > why are you outside killing crickets.. 14:49:19 because my carrier's app wants my finger print 14:49:33 2024 is gonna be an odd year 14:49:39 the rest of 14:50:54 frg_Away: I am assuming a centos stream 9 standardish apache and php 14:51:04 setup 14:51:23 I am still in the Rocky 8 camp. 14:51:46 well i need to initally code to what will be in sm's azure fleet 14:51:55 is that rocky 8 largely? 14:53:26 why don't you guys use nginx 14:53:48 CaptainTobin yes. Currently CentOS 7 but 8 is already set up. 14:54:11 well i am already el8 compatible 14:55:01 its just that apache is more complicated and heaviler to run and deal with and opens up a lot of php vulnerabilities because of crap like mod_php 14:55:06 not sure if 9 would work now with python 3 stuff in. 14:55:16 webserver dude 14:57:04 CaptainTobin Infra is mostly ewong. I keep m hands largely out of it. Just touchiing / configuring Windows build server 15:00:06 I will just assume el8 and do nginx first and add apache and make whatever modifications to the target infra once it gets to a point where it can be tested on said target server. Maybe I shouldn't worry as much about making it run on your standardish infra before it runs at all 15:01:22 el8 to el9 shouldn't be an issue if needed and apache is something I have to relearn what I have forgotten and refresh what I remember.. sooo yeah it will be fine. 15:02:09 frg_Away: the python thing has been an issue for building but I won't be on fedora for much longer 15:02:25 I been prepping my elstream 9 setup 15:03:23 My host, afterburst has this nifty bootiso that can basically netboot a whole swath of distro live cds and installers 15:03:50 so I was playing with that and it has a kickstart field which is nicer to use than editing the grub commandline 15:27:03 hi therube 15:27:20 helo mr. tobin 15:27:41 mister eh 15:27:42 lol 15:33:22 btw i got my answer from mozilla tho it didn't go as well as previous encounters on how to tell a webextension .. extension from a theme locale and dict.. it is its a webextension extension unles it has the theme languages or dictionaries with array/object values 15:33:50 i suggested they add a type to the gecko array but ... they ain't gonna 15:36:31 but it didn't go well cause I was being harrassed by some kid who wants mozilla me roytam anyone to tell him how to make Interlink and modern firefox run on xp 15:37:18 this kid i found out is associated with another kid who did a firefox fork with embeded furry porn in it 15:38:55 I tried to help this kid but once that last shoe dropped i dropped him so he will pull crap every time I ask an on topic and relevant question to draw me off topic with bs 15:39:22 because its easy 16:50:53 well xp unlike 7 isdone for me. 16:56:43 I am all for supporting even XP and 7 and 10 .. not sure about 11 tho but I want to do it sustainably.. at this point and due to some design in mozilla code.. code compiled targeting xp running on nt6+ can cause anomolous unreproducable issues.. I treat XP and vista/7 and 8-10 and 11 as different operating systems 16:56:50 at least as different as 9x and nt are 16:57:32 to that end i believe support for CLASSES of windows has to be established because the technological gaps and radically different tech in some cases demands it 16:57:56 this is a consiquence of Microsoft making Windows a Service 16:58:34 i have software designed for the XP era that acts differently on vista7 8-10 and 11 16:58:43 and gets progressively crashier 16:59:24 and at least the way we were compiling the code exposed this situation 17:02:17 so if it was up to me.. latest windows would be default code path with conditional codepaths for older operating systems at build time and a range of supported windows so xp build covers xp and server 2003 a windows 7 build for 7-10 and a windows 11 build. But that is me and its complex but I feel its the only way to do it IF restoring so called legacy capability 17:02:30 or continuing past it being determental to current targets 17:04:37 In general, code that works on XP and doesn't do insanely insecure things, should work on Vista/Seven as well. 17:04:55 8/10/11 are altogether another animal. 17:05:21 yes it should but consider the mozilla tree a hodpodge of glued together ancient and modern bits and then start changing 17:06:49 I would say Windows 10 1809 is the last that could be considered more Windows 7 than Windows 11 17:10:28 I have some things tucked into an xp vm and for some other hardware based stuff set up a laptop. Tat is it.. 17:11:12 yeah 10 did go rrelly downhill afterwards with crap added laft and right among other things. 17:23:49 Personally, I have altogether given up on using or supporting Windows for anything at all. I don't deliberately _break_ it, but I'm not willing to test on or maintain support for it either. (Obviously, this is not an option for everyone, and I'm not suggesting it for a major project like Seamonkey, given its huge userbase. I don't maintain anything with that many users.) 17:24:37 I suggest Seamonkey drops windows entirely and makes a Linux Distro with SeaMonkey in it.. or I would if I wasn't gonna lol 17:24:49 Because yeah, 8/10/11 is much more of a pain to deal with than other versions of Windows, including 95/98/Me, IMO. 17:26:07 Admittedly, that's subjective; it doesn't kernel panic / bluescreen anywhere near as much as 95/98/Me (nothing does). 17:28:10 franstam: (for ircbot log) well, it's obvious! if paste is enabled, people will copy and paste! Now, with paste disabled, people can use that password manager from 3M! 17:44:19 SeaMonkey 2.x for Windows 98SE/Me when 17:44:45 I personally find that the Windows 4.10 (and perhaps also NT 5.0?) UI is the most usable windows UI I've ever used. 5.1 (and I guess 5.2?) can get there but already departs a bit, see e.g. the push towards MS Agent in explorer windows 17:45:21 if I had $1M, I would donate them to the project solely for funding a Win9x version so I can retire to the slight insanity of WinMe, instead of the chaos of modern computers :D 17:45:28 for me, NT6.1 is already at "agh why is this out of order" "why does this dialog take so much room?" "why is there no hierarchy" 17:45:56 tomman: hey, I just recently powered again the 98 laptop, I should do something fun with it! 17:46:24 figure out which one of your not-so-old games run on W9x unmodified 17:46:28 (no KernelEx allowed) 17:46:39 minesweeper is built-in 17:46:57 bonus points if said game runs fine on 9x but was released after the EOL of 9x, AND it has compatibility problems with Wine 17:47:15 there's actually some ms. pacman trial there too 17:48:06 newer games? not many I have and I probably don't want to go that route, I already had much fun with game requirements not stating things like "needs windows media stack" or "needs directX 9.0c" :-P 17:48:10 I was surprised to find that Recettear fits the bill nicely - first version came up in 2007, English localization was released in 2010... and yet it runs on 98SE/Me like a champion 17:48:15 just feed a good video card and you're set 17:48:39 and by "good", I mean "not integrated trash, but something from ATi or nVidia" 17:50:05 whynotboth.jpeg 17:51:04 wasn't that the goal of the Video Loca 3000? 17:51:20 (by which I mean integrated \land \left( AMD-née-ATi \lor nVidia \right), not AMD-née-ATI \land nVidia 17:52:21 OK, integrated IS allowed if it is from ATi or nVidia 17:52:28 like the Radeon 7500 on my T40 18:57:40 https://future.mozilla.org/builders/ wtr, Mozilla has just become... Y Combinator!? 18:57:59 > A project that fits within the definition of Local AI. 18:59:43 quick, propose a dummy chatbot feature for SeaMonkey, to apply to that sweet sweet Mozilla Moolah™! 19:22:34 This is likely money flushed down the toilet. With the biggies spending billions on AI thrre is probably nothing coming out if it. Likely thing the world does not need like ai generated reports about the unjustice of the world :) 19:42:15 frg_Away: nothing more than even worse virtual assistants, confused information taken as fact because a machine made by a company said it, and generally drive everyone off workstations where none of this belongs and as for AI for code help.. WELL tht is just gonna sabotage any kind of independant creative thought or accomplishment once management mandates ONLY AI can decide 19:42:21 it scares the shit out of me 19:46:01 frg_Away: i wonder if XUL would have been better recieved if Mozilla offered every year to give 100k to an impactful xul project 19:46:07 or anything using Mozilla tech 19:47:00 frg_Away: I figured it out. 19:47:23 Mozilla doesn't have any idea what, where, and how to get AI tech 19:47:42 but they think they need it because google and mcirosoft 19:47:52 so they are running a contest to basically harvist tech 19:48:02 rather than directly create it them selves or assemble it 19:48:18 sounds like something an AI came up with. 19:48:50 also is extremely disappointing to me personally 19:49:29 A mozilla that doesn't create its own tech .. AGAIN is just gonna be a mozilla that fails once the political agenda runs out of use for them. it's so fucking frustrating. 19:50:41 Builders.. 19:51:00 so if they are mozilla builders what does that make the people who are running the contest? 19:53:45 it's a really overcomplicated science fair sponsered by a for profit company to harvest tech they don't have yet. 19:53:55 frg_Away: check me on that lol 19:53:56 please 20:26:51 frg_Away: BinOC Server designated Osmium is now being installed with RockyLinux 8. Additionally, I think next reinstall I will switch them all to RockyLinux 20:27:36 MattATobin Rocky is not perfect but can run kde on it and halfway stable. 20:28:46 desktop wise it just doesn't have enough for multimedia systems.. Enjoy KDE 5 while you can if you can.. KDE6 is a shitshow 20:29:52 if the userspace is good I may do my kernel, baseos rocky 8, and everything else custom 20:30:08 but that sounds hard 20:30:26 frg_Away: kde? then you are relying on epel packages being good 20:31:49 yes. Now and thenafter an update I see a hickup so always waiting a bit before installing them. 20:32:12 is rocky 9 based on centos or rhel sources 20:33:35 it seems they areplying cat and mouse with Red Hat.Didn't look lately. 20:36:25 the only way redhat can restrict access to their sources is via terminating their end user license agreement .. in that case you loose the right to use the software and thus have no right to get the source. Redhat offers free Developer subscriptions to everyone as their way out of this so all rocky needs is to reposync the packages and source packages from redhat and debrand.. And if redhat terminates someone soley for that then I hope the gnutards 20:36:25 and bsdtards will rip them to shreads and end international business machines 20:37:12 https://wiki.rockylinux.org/rocky/version/ 20:37:22 Rocky Linux strives to follow Red Hat Enterprise Linux and CentOS Stream within reason. As such, Rocky Linux releases should follow fairly close to our upstreams. 20:38:40 BUT the real issue for rhel downstreams is.. rhel ain't much better than centos stream in 9 as near as I can tell because centos stream 9 is just redhat linux beta put out to get free labor before their employees have to fix anything because a customer complains.. also to screw everyone. 20:39:01 Redhat Enterprise Linux is just CentOS Stream with the former support window 20:39:17 it isn't built or designed to be like RHEL 8 was 20:39:34 and Redhat Stream is just called Redhat Enterprise Linux now 21:14:23 ... what did VerticalScope do with XenForo styling now 21:14:37 they're using dimension-less svgs? 21:17:37 njsg: all modern browsers allow svg's of any size, don't wanna dimention shame 21:23:07 frg_Away: I suspect rocky8 is fine for server use without much to expect vs alma8 or former centos 8 21:26:29 speaking about forums 21:26:43 https://www.skyscrapercity.com/threads/noticias-de-la-aviaci%C3%B3n-internacional-x-edici%C3%B3n.1434365/page-421 can you see the oversized "Like" icons there? 21:26:50 obscuring EVERY post 21:27:14 in fact, it's not just the Like icons, apparently many icons are rendering at stupidly high sizes 21:27:32 including "Like", "Share" and "circled up arroW" 21:30:28 yesterday said icons were rendering just fine 21:30:32 today that changed 21:31:16 https://repo.palemoon.org/MoonchildProductions/UXP/issues/2316 21:31:17 ? 21:31:29 cause my last borealis build no longer has svg issues 21:33:03 yep, those icons are SVGs indeed... 21:33:37 they're /inlined/ SVGs 21:33:46 here is one of the offending ones: 21:34:06 so yeah SeaMonkey has a bug 21:34:14 a mozilla bug 21:34:22 I am shocked and appulled personally tomman 21:34:23 lol 21:34:38 note that it defines a viewport, but not a size (and one is not applied either on any stylesheet 21:34:53 now that I recall, I hit a very similar bug many years ago... on Internet Explorer 11! 21:35:43 well i dunno if it can be patched as easily in sm code and if it is it would be one of those post-patchqueue patches at the end for release and frg doesn't wanna do too many of them and I don't blame him 21:37:19 I can't recall how I addressed that one back then (it was on a new version of a webapp that never shipped but I was developing) 21:37:24 but it involved using SVGs 21:37:35 --it involved editing the SVGs to define a size somewhere 21:37:51 and also enforcing that size on CSS 21:38:40 but the weird thing is that these icons were working fine yesterday, I guess these forums deployed some new Xenforo update? 21:42:00 likely 21:54:50 tomman: that's precisely what I was talking about 21:55:04 maybe they changed names, but the owner was VerticalScope or the like 21:55:20 .califorina-icon{width:32px;} might be sufficient for ssc 21:55:46 so far it had been a site that can work well without JS, at this point I'm not even sure if CSS hacks are required for usability or not 21:55:58 one thing they screwed recently is that the quick reply box now is only one line tall... 21:57:13 although if all they did was add SVG to existing buttons, it's probably better to just hide these elements 21:57:20 I mean, in that case they're adding nothing 21:57:59 (so far the ones I'm seeing are all icons next to text hyperlinks, I'd argue the text is much better) 22:11:59 the svg size (width?) bug itself has been mentioned here some time ago, probably months 22:12:27 (probably something that relied on newer code) 22:18:19 update: from an open tab of an earlier version of XenForo at SSC, they didn't add SVG icons, they replaced webfont icons with SVG icons 22:19:54 used to be font awesome 5 pro in ::before 22:21:49 Bug 1768593 in mozilla land? 22:32:54 which is based on Bug 1733559 so not sure. 23:08:56 Trying to see if I can find what I was recalling, I can't find it in ircbot so far, I just see one about some SVGs rendering 0 by 0 23:14:56 in my history I think the closest one (based on subject) would be bug 1521882, I need to check if I wrote anything down about this somewhere...