and the winner in today's "jumps into the AI hype" bingo is... big blue's red hat?

njsg: yeah they are gonna ruin linux too

thank Son_Goku for that

he is literally now sitting on boards out to ruin xorg suse and always fedora/kde

and simply won;t stop or accomidate things that are important let alone people

one thing that keeps bugging me, xorg and freedesktop might be xorg and freedesktop, but AFAIK xorg isn't synonymous with X, yet some comments seem to suggest X is going to end as if freedesktop had a monopoly on X11.

but we aren't at the point yet where x11 has no development outside of wayland

There's apparently at least one BSD not only doing changes to xorg, but also apparently using some stuff in drivers that xorg never had (but was in xfree86?)

and not being shipped

so until that happens and likely years after ..

CaptainTobin: blog.netbsd.org/tnf/entry/x_org_on_netbsd_the

consider how long it has taken to get someone to fork the gtk2 version of mate.. for a real gnome/2 desktop

and it is one of us

well when I was apart of an us

anyway

OpenMATE is being done by a Pale Moon community member who stops by occasionally

gtk could have used a fork back then, right now either one recovers gtk+2 support, or a lot of packages aren't going to take much advantage of it. but imagine, gtk+ with stable theming!

well the squash vaporwared that dream for years

could still happen and be used, although I'd really, really, really, really appreciate if the file picker were *not* like the gtk+2 one

now it seems .. people inspired even if they don't admit it by stuff I have helped do is doing it

the gtk2 one is better than the gtk3 filepicker

at least

if they can pull it off I will package it for Fez Enterprising Linux..

as the default desktop

and include it in snowball

I wonder if fedora will put xorg into epel for rhel 10

gtk2 already had a lot of sniffing and whitespace and usability problems

well it should be forked

along with openmate

which it kinda has to be but i wonder if they will figure that out

(which isn't surprising, as usability problems started way before gtk+3, not to name any specific internet lore mailing list posting...)

i iwsh trinity desktop wasn't such a chaotic disappointment

that hasn;t really advanced the state of trinity much past kde35

not in the same way say UXP has advanced

njsg: so you figure bsds will keep x11 alive for everyone?

also i kinda like if xorg was a monolithic package

I am having a real problem as I explore these package systems like rpm but others too.. I always considered a package system to be first and foremost for the ease of the end user but these packages are setup not to make it easier for the end user but make it easier for the packager

ironically these things make it harder for me

and as an end user I am not too thrilled either

so it looks like I have to invent a new packaging frontend for rpm at the very least

i dunno i like mozilla packaging .. xpinstall

CaptainTobin: I figure it's important that it's known freedesktop doesn't mean X, and that there is active maintenance, lest people abandon it because they've been misled.

yeah

I am gonna do less deeming and more listening for a while

it's starting to look like there are people actively trying to spread the idea that X is dead because X is xorg-freedesktop and freedesktop is now focusing on wayland

not that that stopped them from replacing the build systems

yeah and my friend Son_Goku is at the middle of it.

pushing it

it sure has done a number on my stability

because of everything I and others may want in addition or instead

the PR seems constructed that this whole redhat dropping xorg for gnome its only desktop and fedora kde dropping xorg for kde session before kde does.. and it is a common belief that redhat via fedora have deemed them selves the surpeme arbiters of linux past the kernel but also the kernel

even in the Pale Moon Off-topic lounge out of public view there is a thread going on about it but titled to imply fedora/redhat dropping it means everyone else

but it isn't like the forum isn't known for inaccurate reporting and an agenda

lol

the real issue I have is that all this .. tech-fixing is happening between conspiring corperations in the same field.. this has gone WELL beyond standards

they are legislating and judiciously enforcing social constructs

on top of specifically driving virtually everying in a very unnatural direction at the near exclusion of EVERYTHING else

njsg:

what can't be wholesale tossed is rewritten until its useles and needs wholesale tossed.. from code to hardware to relationships to projects to organizations they seem to want it all and only their version of it

well I for one require x11

and gtk2 is still a good toolkit with lots of theming and everything

and if I know c/cpp i'd fork it..

gnome/2 may not be ideal as an environment but it is a very very decent environment that really made the attempt on a functional level.. and that's really the thing.. gnome before 3 had all the windows like function but kde always had the windows like frills .. why the HELL didn't someone just do both

of course today that isn't a problem.. the design patents for 3x and most of 4x are progressively expiring

you can design a completely say.. windows 95 and lower windows UI without a problem as long as you don't use any ip resources or code

95 without desktop update i mean

really that is my overall linux goal .. a truely classic windows experience on linux.. from the graphics up it is visually a possible version of windows that should have been released as windows is my aim

I want linux to be similarly gui configurable as windows is again in a way that yast never managed

/join #fedora-kernel

yep banned

oh well