09:54:09 <Sompi> what is this new thing about, that many sites have a gigantic ohm symbol or a magnifying glass symbol on the top of the page
09:54:24 <Sompi> and then it is removed by javascript afterwards
09:54:28 <Sompi> why do they do that?
13:06:59 <tomman> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40082372 wow, Hackernews-senpai noticed us!
13:08:09 <tomman> surprisingly the comments are not falling into the "too old, UNSAAAAFE DANGER MINES" typical BS we get from HN regarding Firefox forks
13:08:25 <tomman> also, people apparently still use the HTML editor, nice
13:08:45 <tomman> a couple idiots say the UI looks "ooooold and stale", tho
13:08:59 <tomman> and another moron suggests integrating "AI"
13:09:26 <tomman> also, one request for a native ARMac version
13:10:12 <tomman> and this one takes the gold: "It would feal so great if whoever owns Netscape now could donate the trademark to Mozilla to use instead of SeaMonkey :-)"
14:25:01 <tomman> ah, some dude complained about the Chromeisms and got promptly downvoted by the HN hivemind
15:00:39 <MattATobin> no no no nonono
15:00:46 <MattATobin> do NOT give mozilla the netscape trademark
15:00:54 <MattATobin> it should go to EITHER SeaMonkey
15:00:56 <MattATobin> ... or me.
15:01:53 <tomman> apparently some "Apollo Management" owns the remnants of the Netscape brand
15:02:10 <tomman> not AOL, not Yahoo, not Verizon, and not Meta (anymore)
15:02:24 <MattATobin> ...
15:02:30 <MattATobin> that upsets me
15:03:02 <MattATobin> hi Libera Staff Jess
15:03:09 <jess> hiii
15:04:21 <ContributorTobin> tomman: people really like the editor? WHY it is the most old unfixed up bit of the suite
15:04:37 <tomman> maybe because it doesn't contain JavaScript vomit?
15:04:45 <ContributorTobin> unless frg added customizable toolbars recently it doesn't even have that.. tickbox customization
15:04:46 <tomman> dunno, some people still likes to write things
15:05:47 <ContributorTobin> heh.. I should just do a patch for editor customizable toolbars because well ratty just ain't here to do it is he
15:06:45 <ContributorTobin> be a good learning excersize between the binding the converted binding and whatever thunderbird is using now
15:06:52 <ContributorTobin> and has user benefit
15:08:56 <ContributorTobin> i'd like --disable-mailnews and --disable-composer at build time
15:11:59 <ContributorTobin> configure options would never have been so suite
15:12:05 <ContributorTobin> or not .. your choice
15:12:10 <ContributorTobin> is my idea tomman
15:13:00 <frg_Away> IanN added some stuff a while ago. Main toolbar can now be customized
15:13:02 <frg_Away> https://ibb.co/4gsgYYP
15:13:04 <ContributorTobin> one day these PRACTICAL conserns won't get in the way of creative coding .. surely there has to be a way that works cause we have thousands of unique examples where it doesn't.. so it MUST narrow it down
15:13:28 <ContributorTobin> well shit
15:13:37 <ContributorTobin> i miss the vista toolbar background
15:13:42 <ContributorTobin> like realllly miss it frg_Away
15:14:36 <ContributorTobin> I always liked to think bits of aero design like this evolved from people stealing shit from the Modern Skin
15:14:52 <ContributorTobin> I mean glass shine aside the color balance isn't that far off
15:15:44 <ContributorTobin> also I am now convinced the only issue with tthe default icon set are those lackluster navigation buttons.. everything else looks great
15:17:05 <frg_Away> I still think they could use some more contrast and less fuzz. Still look a bit like from a care bear movie.
15:17:17 <ContributorTobin> HEY composer *IS* customizable cool
15:18:41 <ContributorTobin> reload is the worst.. its so dull blue when the save disk has a very pleasent blue
15:19:32 <ContributorTobin> the arrows indeed could be greened up and crisp up a bit.. the stop button just looks too saturated but also too soft on the edges somehow
15:25:38 <ContributorTobin> frg_Away: any chance I can convince you to make the stop button a traffic light?
15:27:47 <frg_Away> Need to convince IanN I am not sure we should tinker. Rather fix the functionality first and maybe give it a do over. I also would like to use svgs for better scaling
15:43:36 <tomman> anyway, it surprises me how civil has been that HN thread about SeaMonkey
15:43:59 <tomman> so far it hasn't diverted yet in the usual "old browsers are a security threat and everybody should use latest Chrome"
15:44:18 <tomman> (last time Pale Moon got a thread, half of the comments couldn't get past that meme)
16:48:11 <ContributorTobin> old and insecure is a way of life... for about 8 years
23:23:50 <njsg> Sompi: gigantic symbols are because of some default width when rendering SVG. I think it was discussed here a long time ago (months, at least), with a bug number. At least if the symbols remain there, just smaller.
23:24:55 <njsg> 0419|14:07:54 <+tomman> also, people apparently still use the HTML editor, nice <-- composer does seem to find a few users. I wish I had a clear idea of how to solve the save status and the cell merge issues...
23:33:38 <Sompi> I have used LibreOffice Writer many times to convert some word processing document to HTML. Probably should have used Seamonkey Composer for every one of those cases...
23:35:42 <njsg> converting from "word processing" easily gets tricky with all the formatting or if styles are not used, I don't recall how verbose LibO (or OOo) is.
23:36:02 <njsg> From me that'd probably involve latex2html. or perhaps the html export in org-mode
23:36:33 <Sompi> It would be nice if every rust module in SeaMonkey was rewritten in C/C++
23:37:18 <njsg> tomman: oh wow "why not vscode". Maybe this should become a meme with "I'm considering using EDIT instead of EDLIN" "Why not VSCode?"
23:37:28 <Sompi> C/C++ is so much more portable
23:37:59 <njsg> Sompi: the problem there is the effort that it'd take. I think the main reason why there is rust is so that it's easier to port later changes to SeaMonkey
23:38:00 <tomman> njsg: but that would render the Emacs joke obsolete: "Eight Megs And Constantly Swapping"
23:38:17 <njsg> tomman: I personally atest that that should really be EGACS.
23:38:28 <tomman> no, that's VSCode :P
23:38:53 <njsg> or Emacs running erc!
23:39:01 <Sompi> njsg: I know
23:39:06 <njsg> (at least that was how I hit something close to that)
23:39:24 <njsg> Sompi: ah yes; yes, I'd like too if Rust could be avoided here
23:39:46 <Sompi> But I hate rust. It has made many open source programs practically unportable and unnecessarily heavy
23:39:58 <Sompi> I remember when Firefox worked on "everything"
23:40:23 <Sompi> There was builds available for all kinds of weird target platforms
23:40:42 <Sompi> Now everything is just x86-64 and ARM
23:41:38 <Sompi> "I really like the concept of SeaMonkey, but the project needs some major UI updates and way more love to be relevant today."
23:41:46 <Sompi> "Strong agree. Concept sounds great. The UI looks like something out of 2005 and that's just not okay. It simply cannot be relevant while looking like that and updating its UI would not have to cause any loss in functionality. It's honestly a waste of time for devs to be working on something that looks like that, since you're cutting out half your audience."
23:41:57 <Sompi> :(
23:42:51 <Sompi> They didn't even say why the UI is bad, other than it "looks old"
23:43:44 <Sompi> I have only one complaint about SeaMonkey's UI, and it is that the charset menu is the nerfed version and not the original that Firefox had in 2005
23:45:30 <Sompi> https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica3/internet409.htm <- I was disappointed that SeaMonkey was not mentioned there, instead just some proprietary clients that have arbitrary limitations...