04:39:56 Many websites have already stopped working on Firefox ESR because it is "too old" 05:20:16 how tf is firefox esr too old? 05:26:07 i dont get why those chromisms infected people keep chasing latest greatest like some dumba$$e$? 05:26:29 i want a stable non breaking browser 05:27:15 because they think that it must be unsecure because it is not new 05:27:33 nightly builds are secure, ESR releases are unsecure because they are old 05:29:00 my friend literally changed his mobile cos oneplus 7t is "no longer supported" with no security updates 05:29:18 what a n00b 05:29:32 i guess goggles loves him cos he bought a pixel 8 05:30:32 how people suddenly started accepting that kind of bullshit 05:30:46 I cannot afford buying new things all the time 05:31:11 my CPU is ten years old, but it is a Xeon and it has more calculating power than new cheap computers 05:31:27 but many new programs don't work anymore because they need newer instruction set extensions than I have 05:31:45 nowadays everything is compiled for max. 5 years old computers... 06:06:20 It is a shame that ESR runs afoul of many critical websites. That was the main reason I had to drop SeaMonkey, despite loving using it for everything at once 06:10:41 The ESR version is always safer, but idiot thinks that it isn't because "iT Is OlD!!11" 06:37:17 fk that shiet 06:43:16 i recall previously that i could continue using firefox 2.0 when i refused to upgrade to 3.x way back, well into the 12.x version. 06:43:25 thats like literally 6 years 06:43:37 no sites mysteriously "broke" 06:44:03 how long stone tablets were in use for? 06:44:32 apparently even now thousands of years later people can still read some of them 07:17:35 Sompi_: we've finally solved the Microsoft antitrust scenario from the 90s, and the wintel monopoly. by normalizing it further? 07:19:44 what's fun, *again*, and yes, I keep getting back to this, is how part of why the web didn't break so much in the recent past (but not-so-recent past) was... MSIE6. 07:20:31 microsoft was moving slowly back then 07:20:34 also interesting how so many things could work better if breaking changes were done with versioning 07:20:38 * njsg looks at whatwg 07:21:11 now we have HTML5 which is a "running standard", things just change without the version number of the standard changing 07:21:21 "living standard", and yes, that's whatwg. 07:21:39 my prime example for that so far was the change in fetch() defaults 07:22:21 which broke login in at least one site I use, and I think also picture loading at some Lidl sites (at least .de? I don't recall whether other TLDs affected) 07:22:28 so if a webpage is "HTML5 compliant", no-one knows which year's and month's HTML5 it is 07:23:12 because whatwg decided it should now default to sending credentials, which is stupid, as the proper compatible way for developers would then have to be still explicitly set the same value as the default just in case 07:23:43 can standards without version management even be called standards... 07:24:26 I don't know if I want to know the answer to that question :-D 07:24:54 let's make c++ a living standard so that nobody knows whether side-effect-less infinite loops are undefined behaviour or not! 07:26:45 and then they say that HTML 4.01 is "obsolete" 07:26:50 and "you should not use it" (why?) 07:29:15 nowadays even software developers don't know what their CPU target is... 07:29:34 and then they "accidentally" push a software update that requires instruction set extensions that weren't required before 07:58:11 i wish m$ would make windows 10 evergreen 07:58:35 i could technically stay on windows 10 2015 build 10240 and be on "windows 10" 07:58:49 but m$ broke their promist 07:58:53 promise 08:01:42 lets just go back to plain old html 08:02:17 https://danluu.com/slow-device/ 08:02:20 this is an issue 08:02:53 i cant be bothered to keep up to date with my android mobile that people just deprecate just because someones pocket is not enough profits 08:13:04 one of the issues is probably that some of the ideas in use today don't really help with old devices 08:13:25 if instead of JS-powered lazy-loading, we had something that didn't require JS, maybe that'd be one step in the right direction 08:13:47 but, overall, the problem continues to be basing things on top of piles and piles of JS with no consideration for speed, load time and graceful degradation 08:14:35 at one point, I could get something decent out of an android phone by disabling JS and CSS in a browser: things just loaded instantly. This was, of course, before it became more prevalent to require JS or newer SSL algorithms 08:14:43 but it illustrates how much slowness the bloat adds 08:17:01 lazy devs. nuff said 08:17:33 hope im not offending any web devs here 08:17:36 ooops