02:09:07 https://danluu.com/slow-device/ good writeup, sadly Modern Web Developers™ do not care about low-end trash 02:09:25 they're all using $1000 iPhones and $2000 ARMacs 02:09:59 also, Let's Encrypt just rendered one of my cellphones useless 02:10:34 the cross-signing stuff with the long expired DST CA finally died last week, and no app connecting to Let's Encrypt-certified servers work anymore 02:11:28 turns out that while you can install the new CAs, starting with Android 7, the OS will ignore them unless apps explicitly opt-in to using user-added CAs, under the disguise of "security" 02:11:49 (the other way is by rooting the cellphone, which is a no-fly zone for most devices out there) 02:12:21 I can't listen to web radio or check exchange rates using the handy apps from F-Droid on my old Alcatel due to that 02:12:37 isn't SSL wonderful? Contributing to the global pandemic of ewaste, how considerate~ 03:53:39 why do we need ssl for listening to web radi 03:53:44 radio 03:53:51 whos gonna hack my stream 03:54:00 isnt radio by nature public alrady? 03:54:03 who cares? 10:25:13 tomman: so older android lacks support for crypto algorithms, newer android simply does not understand the concept of certificate store? 10:25:51 one would think people screaming that they must have one single centralized store would understand this concept. Or was that Apple? 14:11:48 njsg: no, it's not crypto but CAs 14:12:27 Remember the Let's Encrypt CA horror show a few years ago when the DST CA was expiring and they were moving to a new one 14:12:39 normally on any sane OS the fix is simple: update your CAs 14:13:23 sadly you can't do this on Android unless both your device OEM and (if applicable) your telco cooperates, which is not happening for 99% of the devices out there 14:13:39 luckily Android allows to install your own CAs, just like in any Real Computer™ 14:14:24 unluckily, starting with Android 7, any app targeting SDK level 24 (that is, 7.0) will ignore user-registered CAs in the name of Sekuritah™ (and previous versions gave you scary warnings if you DARED adding a custom CA) 14:14:59 developers can opt-in for supporting user CAs, but this is not a default setting on project files 14:15:33 and I suspect that in some devices, either telcos or OEMs may have crippled the ability to use your own CAs even with compliant applications, because this is Android 14:15:51 all the paths lead to e-waste and setting money ablaze in the name of Sekuritah™ 14:16:56 and LEt's Encrypt only advice (other than "buy a new cellphone lol") is "Install Firefox, which uses its own CA store"... and which is too bloated to run on low-end devices, even more than Chrome (which is already a bloaty pig) 14:17:38 The other workaround is to root the phone and add the certs to the system store, but again, this is not an option for 99% of the devices out there 14:18:28 (good luck finding a device-specific forum for $FREE_WITH_FRIES prepaid specials with 1GB RAM on XDA, for example) 14:53:20 tomman: no, there's also a separate issue where you may have the certificates but you can't establish a connection because the server requires an unsupported cyper 14:53:37 might require older android than that, though. 15:25:29 haven't experienced that one with Nougat, tho 15:25:49 but yeah, on that one you're screwed since it needs more than just a bunch of files 18:54:53 happens at least with some "jelly beans" 20:38:33 having to root to do a lot of stuff IMHO in itself sums up a lot that makes android less suitable and harder to use. now they could at least make rooting accessible, instead from what I gather that's often not the case