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MattATobin
beep boop beep
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MattATobin
frg_Away: is there an existing bug regarding devtools on central?
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frg_Away
MattATobin for SeaMonkey?
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MattATobin
ye
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frg_Away
don't think so but maybe an older one. Need to check
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frg_Away
MattATobin Oh
Bug 842942 is a meta bug
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MattATobin
cause the first patch I was gonna do is introduce my slighly genericized loader with the devtools and chrome clh flags (removing the flag from suite glue so it doesn't conflict if/when it gets fixed. and because --chrome is a dep on --devtools functioning)
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MattATobin
which will allow you to spawn any chrome window again and launch devtools on whatever startup window starts up first
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frg_Away
MattATobin is this mozilla oder comm code? If mozilla code can probably only exist in the patch queue forever.
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MattATobin
comm code only
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frg_Away
ah ok. Did you get my email?
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MattATobin
I did
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MattATobin
electronic mail!
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MattATobin
you doing ok?
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MattATobin
anyway the only mozilla patches I have made are to free up the few spots of hardcoded thunderbird only exceptions to firefox
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frg_Away
oki. Was just for clarification so you know what is going on.
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MattATobin
I appreciate that!
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MattATobin
restoring a form of useable devtools is internal to suite/ only along with a couple of required ftl files the platform expects the app to have.
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MattATobin
THO central is buildbusted right now due to another issue
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MattATobin
mailnews relies on an xpcom interface defined in mail
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MattATobin
because openpgp is no longer optional
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frg_Away
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frg_Away
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MattATobin
oh about redirector
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MattATobin
neat
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MattATobin
one of the big jobs is converting js xpcom components to xpcom enhanced jsms to esm modules
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MattATobin
from js xpcom component to xpcom enhanced jsm is mostly mechanical
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MattATobin
i think
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MattATobin
frg_Away: if I could get
github.com/bgrins/xbl-analysis working i might be able to use it to convert xbl bindings to xul customelements
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MattATobin
including stuff left out of even Thunderbird
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MattATobin
as well as some from extensions as well
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frg_Away
Well rdf and xbl are things I not even care about much in 2.53 so if we can get stylo working later might be something for there too. Not that I am hot about custom elements too.
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MattATobin
the following also need to happen xhtml wise.. all non-window root elements need to be made window and then xhtml with a xul namespaced body minimum that includes prefpanes wizards and pages
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frg_Away
and the import statements changed numerous times too.
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MattATobin
well Services is just builtin now
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MattATobin
editor .. composer is the component least likely to survive because there is no guide to follow past thunderbird's useage of it.
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MattATobin
not saying it can't be fixed just it seems more like a final boss .. you've faced devtools, and glue.. navigator and slogged through mailnews NOW you face the dreaded SeaMonkey Composer!
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MattATobin
heh
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MattATobin
So old it doesn't even have toolkit customizable toolbars
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MattATobin
unless you added that in 2.53
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frg_Away
Well when we are at a point where Composer affects us we could decide. IanN_Away did some patches for 2.53 so not sure about the toolbars any longer. I think they are in 2.53 and central.
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MattATobin
Thunderbird's take on customizable toolbars is sure closer to the toolkit form than customizableui is.. and they previously translated the xbl to a xul ce so that exists tho xul toolbar spring element no longer exists.. but thunderbird has something in their new customzable unified toolbar so some hope. And yeah I am actually learning webcomponents
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MattATobin
and it is confusing
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Sompi
now my online bank has also stopped working on Seamonkey
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Sompi
they use at least jquery, react and google's tracking scripts
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MattATobin
but once I got xr to figure out mjs is javascript that connected some dots for me ;)
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Sompi
but the page somehow detects when the browser console is open and doesn't render anything, so it is probably almost impossible to debug
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Sompi
"TypeError: O.get(...).then(...).catch(...).finally is not a function
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Sompi
[Learn More]
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Sompi
CsrfProvider.tsx:19:9"
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MattATobin
yeah that is a consiquence of scammers using devtools to scam people by editing the dom
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Sompi
the page has three megabytes of javascript and it's all minified
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Sompi
it used to be pure HTML just few years ago
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MattATobin
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frg_Away
this one is on for sure
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MattATobin
i figured it was
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MattATobin
you're more or less what 62-68ish js wise?
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frg_Away
probably private class files or something else again
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Sompi
but that file doesn't even have a line like that
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frg_Away
2.53.18 60 soso plus/minus 59 for sure
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Sompi
the line 19 is completely different
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Sompi
actually the whole devtools somehow goes completely crazy about that
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MattATobin
Sompi: debuggig minified js is a pretty impossible task when you don't have cooperation of the people who wrote the site and there is still a lot of discrimination for not being latest broken mess perpetually
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Sompi
yes, but I'm trying to figure out what part the js parser fails at
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Sompi
but it's impossible because the server just serves some random crap when the page detects that devtools are open
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frg_Away
check for import statements or # declarations
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Sompi
half of the lines are html and half of them are javascript
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Sompi
in a way that is in no way correct syntax
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MattATobin
well it likely isn't standard js
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MattATobin
or obfuscated
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MattATobin
what site is this?
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Sompi
op.fi
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Sompi
I think some script tells the server that the user opened the devtools, and then the server starts outputting some nonsense instead of the documents that it should
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MattATobin
could run a manual broad regression with firefox see when the site starts working
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MattATobin
start with esr52 go 60 68 78 once you narrow down the range between esrs you can switch to release versons.. Just make sure to disable auto-updating on firefox via a preferences file so it doesn't automatically update str8 to latest
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MattATobin
narrowing it down to a specific firefox version could help in figuring out what is happening if manual scan or a text search for known new shineys doesn't turn up anything all that useful
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Sompi
why are they even using such advanced javascript on an online bank?
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MattATobin
because money
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Sompi
they used to have a pure html version of the online bank and it worked on lynx
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Sompi
but they removed it for "accessibility reasons"
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MattATobin
Is that relevant?
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Sompi
and replaced it with a javascript hell that only works with internet explorer, firefox and chrome
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Sompi
and now this new online bank doesn't even always work with firefox
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MattATobin
anyway first do what frg said and see if there are any import statements or # declariations
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Sompi
now it is completely broken on seamonkey
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Sompi
I'm too tired of this shit
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MattATobin
well it would help if you could see if those two things are there like frg asked
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MattATobin
and if not maybe do that regression thing
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Sompi
but the site refuses to load when I open the devtools
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MattATobin
I don't have an account so I can't do it
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Sompi
so I cannot even see what's in there
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MattATobin
view source
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Sompi
the javascripts are in separate files
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MattATobin
open the individual linked js files
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Sompi
and they cannot be loaded individually
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MattATobin
yeah aren't they linkified
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MattATobin
in the markup?
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Sompi
they are
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MattATobin
click em
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Sompi
but the js files cannot be loaded individually
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Sompi
the server doesn't allow that
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Sompi
and now it already kicked me out
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MattATobin
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MattATobin
that opens
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Sompi
and logging in costs one more one-time-use password
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Sompi
those aren't free
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MattATobin
huh
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MattATobin
i generate one time password codes on linux?
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MattATobin
anyway Sompi I do completely understand your frustration but mixing in a technical issue with the asides of how crap new stuff is just distracts from the issue at hand.
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Sompi
yeah
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Sompi
but that online bank seems to be impossible to debug, so it is not relevant in the context of browser developing
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Sompi
now it stopped working on seamonkey, while I was using it and paying things
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Sompi
suddenly a blank page
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Sompi
they updated something there
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MattATobin
Well if you can't access the JS.. go play pin the tail on the firefox to find out what gecko version it works.. That way I can look into what changed between those releases and HOPEFULLY find what to tell the frg what needs ported
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MattATobin
That's the theory anyway
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Sompi
even the ESR version of Firefox is nowadays "unsupported" with many websites
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Sompi
meaning that when they detect an ESR version, they just refuse to work and show a message that your browser is outdated
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MattATobin
they jumpped the gun.. new esr isn't till july lol
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MattATobin
but i am saying esrs are a good way to broadly segment the releases for this kind of manual regression testing
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Sompi
and the non-esr version is broken in many other ways
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MattATobin
or future feature testing
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Sompi
because... because it's non-esr
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MattATobin
Sompi: wait so this doesn't work in firefox?
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Sompi
unstable shit
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Sompi
MattATobin: I haven't tried yet
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Sompi
because it costs money
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MattATobin
then how is it broken?
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Sompi
I don't know is it or not
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MattATobin
well you are only interested in finding the version it started working in
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MattATobin
do test current firefox tho
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Sompi
I go buy groceries
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MattATobin
well what do you expect me or someone actually apart of this project to do for you dude, i mean the js is account walled off and even when you log in you can't inspect the js. If you want an answer dude let alone a fix it would help to have at least a hint of what the issue is. Only way I know how to do that besides devtools and error consoles is to test each version until it works except *I* can't nor can frg or the others ..
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MattATobin
unless we banked at that bank
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MattATobin
Sompi: let me put it like this.. when you run windows or whatever os you are on.. do you automatically blame windows when some random program breaks or just won't run anymore.. the browser is being treated as an operating system these days and websites as applications.. So in that context, how much does microsoft fix windows because one program is broken by their own changes not microsoft's
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MattATobin
i mean pre windows 8 windows
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MattATobin
I kinda feel it is unfair to put so much emphasis on the browser being compatible with the site when it should and orginally was the site was compatible with the browser
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MattATobin
imo and by all rights this site should be open to anything that has basic html5 and es6 support
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MattATobin
that is what I believe
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MattATobin
tho i'd prefer xhtml and es5 personally
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MattATobin
The WhatWG has rejected <style scoped> restoration in favor of @scoped { ... }
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MattATobin
does seem you can use it in nested style tags not just the style attr but .. i dunno
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Sompi
MattATobin: I'm blaming the bank. I don't understand how professional web developers can produce such shitty code
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Sompi
And use javascript for literally everything, when it's just static content
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MattATobin
I am not a *professional* web developer unless you count HotDog Professional by the Sasuage software company
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MattATobin
so idgi either
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MattATobin
but.. that's the name of the game and has been for a while. Anyway, i still suggest you run that pin the tail on the firefox feature version and narrow it down but if someone actually on the council should have a better idea then I suggest you do that first
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MattATobin
if not instead
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MattATobin
also Sompi and this is just a personal request from me, I am trying very hard to look for options, solutions, and generally being more positive and well frankly.. nice.. while trying to figure out how to navigate in this messed up world i spent a decade trying to ignore .. not just for me but for everyone seemingly left behind by the mass insanity tech has been infused with so it would be helpful to me and perhaps others if you
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MattATobin
toned down the everything is crap asides at least not interleaving them with reporting issues. Tho have no authority to make you do that it would just help me a great deal to stay focused on positivity and practical accomplishment and contribution to a better future for as many as possible
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njsg
tomman: what about matrix bridges, how well do these work? I see some channels on IRCnet are bridged somehow. One even seemed tightly integrated, but I might be misremembering
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njsg
(tightly integrated as in messages are shown as coming directly from the matrix user, and not from a bridge bot nick)
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njsg
Sompi: there's a non-devtools error console, and a devtools one, is the netbank site detecting both?
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njsg
it should also be possible to enable these errors being written to the process output (UNIX-like system) or to a separate window (Windows)
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njsg
Sompi: used to be pure html? I know there was one bank which pushed hard on using their app and everything six years ago, I was surprised that one didn't revamp the netbank itself in such a way.
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» njsg wonders about having javascript print out Python or Java-like backtraces :-P
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njsg
Sompi: is there anything one can test without having an OP user account? Some page that's representative of the breakage?
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Sompi
njsg: probably not
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MattATobin
njsg: how's that libra to matrix bridge workin for ya
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MattATobin
;)
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MattATobin
oh yeah it was always unreliable and error prone and was shut down and is never coming back and matrix nor libra seem much bothered by it
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njsg
no idea, but I guess there might be also something on the IRC server itself there
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njsg
at utwente.nl? not something I've looked into, though
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njsg
oh, possibly matrix and discord?
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MattATobin
njsg: XML4Life
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MattATobin
xmpp was always the superior protocol