wooo

sm-rel is building in my fc38 chroot dunno if it will succeed but

CoordinatorTobin Bug 1388340-57a1.patch is already in 2.53. Was also checked in into the master branch. But might need some later backports for 3.12 3.11

3.11 in fc38 chroot.. is dandy

but yeah I agree, seems more backports need done for 3.11 on fc39 or just 3.12 support needs added properly but even mozilla hasn't done it yet

which is why fedora 39 has 3.11 at all but only enough for firefox/thunderbird

i dunno what voodoo buc is using but from git built out of rpmbuild it just won't work enough for it to create the virtualenv that HAS six in it

that is my issue

and while true is is more fedora than you .. fedora caring anytime soon is not something i can bet on.. not for me anyway

atm i need six for it to create a virtualenv to provide six

and i don't have it

and it isn't using the one in-tree before virtualenv is established

frg_Away:

I onle konw that Myckel is working on more backports. My wip branch has already about 60 more.

I'd be happy to test em, for now I got that chroot going and with being able to build cental on 39 i should be fairly good

frg_Away: this is not a NEW situation for me but it is one I hoped not to have to encounter again, so I am all for making this the last time I have to build an active codebase using an older host than i run

They seem to turn python 3 into an everchanging desaster so this happens. 2 was stable. Not happy about it either.

python is a service

all i can figure

2.7 was stable.. but didn't this crap happen in 2.6 and earlier 2x series as well

i dunno if it was me I'd go back to ac configure for everything and use tauthon for mozbuild.. or replace it all with cmake

or if I am feeling really spiteful.. a PHP driven build system.

know what i bet mozilla will do?

rebuild mozbuild in rust then use a much simpler build system to build rust mozbuild

frg_Away: dare me to suggest it to them?

rust is just as bad with every minor version bringing more fun. Not even able to build for pre macOS 10.15 now with latest one. I rather take good old makefiles or cmake which I don't exactly like either.

frg_Away: php build system it is lol

autoconf 2.13

autohell

WG9s: good morning

so if you didn't read the logbot my fc38 chroot worked fine.. my issue seems to be soley that fedora is on 3.12 and the 3.11 version only has enough to build cental and release and something is missing in sm's build system which is resulting in needing six to create the virtualenv that provides six

and i don't have six for 3.11

and 3.12 is busted

for sm git

central apperently doesn't need six to provide the virtualenv with six in it

that is all i have come up with but for the meantime the chroot means i can build both sm git and mozilla-current .. and uxp if i care

SO NOW if I fail to do shit.. i have NO EXCUSE

lol

frg_Away:

NOW I am gonna add the mxp (multi-purpose experimental platform) patches on central code and build me a non-working suite for enjoyment reasons

I wanna see if I get a main window at all

since I unblocked ./mach run so anything built from comm will pass the checks

rather than just firefox android and thunderbird

i would be happy to get a crash

even

i just wanna see what happens

CoordinatorTobin: are you familiar with the TV show Monk?

i vaugely recall it WG9s

> We have to abandon the concept of a web browser as in the Netscape Navigator style of web browser heresy.

heresy. (should have been on a separate line ;-))

I didn't say we should elminate it

just stop trying to make a document navigator more than a document navigator and pwa everything that is obviously trying to be a webapp because at this point.. standard browser UI for webapps is becoming a useability consern

where the back button breaks shit

and the address bar is pointless

and so are cookie controls

and etc

still have em but not be focused on em

the ONE thing tho that is required for any successful webapp runner would be to have content blocking and defacto standard privacy feature capabilities

beyond that do the masses even NEED a Netscape style browser at this point for much?

we do cause we are crazies obsessed with a big fuckin N even tho that ain't our logo

I believe pushing pwa and arbitrary site specific browsing but with a free navigation feature (and a bonus program launcher as well) would actually allow the general web browser to become more netscape like again.

because browsing the openweb is a different experence and has different expectations than navigating the world wide web

imo anyway

and I am gonna write one that does exactly that

on modern mozilla

and i may throw waterfox's pseudo-extensions in as well

Cause a PWA/SSB/Program and Applet launcher would be just what I think is needed. Granted a launcher window isn't so needed when operating systems support shortcuts and desktop files but consider linux on arm as well. But the launcher window also doubles as the management as well

I think I could ... re-jigger xulrunner and mozilla prism into the modern day and have it be a program manager/arm device launcher to boot

conceptually

therube WG9s whatcha think?

oh, so this is a "pwa", en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_web_app

i too old school & don't like that at all.

take a NAS (synology). it's "interface" is basically a web browser. & i feel it is horrid. i'd much rather have individual, well thought out programs to control the various aspects of the NAS, & not try to shoehorn everything into (essentially) a web browser interface.

& yes we have a pwa today, but it's name is Chrome, & controlled by... Chrome. no one else has a say.

PWA is just a silly spec that defines how to advertise webapp features

we have had this concept since the mid-2000s

it ain't new not really

none of this is

absolutely nothing is new

except my unique brand of "kitbashing" failed past concepts into something cool and could work if i just fuckin actually did it

you know therube

customelements it's just really hard to use xbl

html is effectively xhtml except no one wants to be strict about it

and have no xml features

CaptainTobin: Sorry was ag dentist. REason I asked was we have been looking for more contirbutors and you said you might be doing more now. so Was going to say "it's a blssing ... and a curse" and ws not sure you would get the refernce hence the joke.

I'd add pwa features to seamonkey but webcompat takes priority and kinda negates it

WG9s: ha

I am gonna contribute anywhere I can because.. i can.

and more than that.. i should.

I should have been a SeaMonkey contributor all along regardless of whatelse I did..

I've done my Navigator which is SeaMonkey code, I have done Interlink which is Thunderbird code and I done Firefox code.. I have done build system and ux stuff as well as from scratch infrastructure to support it .. and I have a half-made never before existing example app on modern mozilla a feat I a few years ago dismissed as having any point or potental.

So why not contribute and create.

well oddly back in the day, when i first started working on it still called firebird and thunderbird the mozilla fols thoiught the suite was the premier project and thought we were the maveriks. now firefox is eally the only product they care about.

Also a modern mozilla pwa runner COULD take over the "second browser" spot many have to maintain

lessening the webcompat burdon on projects LIKE seamonkey

WG9s: Except.. Thunderbird.

if you go back in the old cvs stuff there is a manit camnit damnit checkin form ben goodger in firebird. and i am the only other one who knows the story behind that.

and the fact thunderbird is the exception and still consigned to comm means.. at this point.. they are BEGGING for someone else to validate their tech

i was just starting to folow the project had no real idea how to actually submit a patch and he landed somthing that broke save page as. so i crated a ptach but not knowing what to do on bugzilla emailed it to him.

I'll do the whole old school bug rigamarol but preferably I'd like to just hand the patches to you guys and have you do the thing.

so next day he ordered a new system i think from dell and decided to do a save as before pt=nting the order confirmation and invoce and the broser crashed

next thing he did was read his email and first messge there was the one from me with the fix

I am pretty sure thunderbird is sticking to proceedure and that is all phabricated

lol

so that is what pompted the Damnit! Damnit! Daminit! cehck-in comment had he reaed hs eamil before buying the new system ...

that's great

I wish I had went for being a mozilla contributor back in those days

his patch rthat boke it was only missing a null check

not a complicated fix

typical

even today

.. fuckin typical

i wonder if the tree is like half nullchecks by now

on uxp we constantly had to add them to various crap as stuff changed

but if i was not so new to the project that i could have posted onthe bug he might have noticed sooner.

and if he had read the email before he bought the computer

jcranmer is attempting to restore a full from cvs coniguous development history for thunderbird

likely all of mozilla

contiguous

... unbroken

last i knew that checkin of the null check with the comment is still there but i do not still have the reply email form him whidch makes the story more complete.

Ben was pissed becaue it was his oen patch that cause the browser crash and also had he read his emial first he could have avoided the crash

I was so new to this that I had no clue that he was chief engineer on the project

ok.. suite central build kicked off with MXP patches

which applied cleanly to central

which was nice

WG9s: what an incredible story dude

btw I think --disable-mailnews should be able to work and seamonkey needs a built in splash screen

check the mozirc logs that was what I was on about

when I first started hanging around here

yeah this currently applies cleanly to central github.com/binaryoutcast/mxp-predev…11971c015af3ad0f48125893e2f52.patch

at.. compile error

in nsSuiteModule

ah yeah

I am gonna have to apply these patches

or one of em

mattatobin⊙nbc LINUX /binoc/workstation/projects/gecko

$ python3.11 ./mach run --chrome about:config

0:00.48 /binoc/workstation/projects/.obj/suite-x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/dist/bin/seamonkey --chrome about:config -no-remote -profile /binoc/workstation/projects/.obj/suite-x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/tmp/profile-default

[ImapModuleLoader] Using nsImapService.cpp

ATTENTION: default value of option mesa_glthread overridden by environment.

JavaScript error: resource://devtools/client/performance-new/popup/menu-button.sys.mjs, line 15: Error: Failed to load resource:///modules/CustomizableUI.sys.mjs

console.error: (new TypeError("NetworkError: Network request failed", "resource://services-settings/Utils.sys.mjs", 236))

welp

guess I need more patches than just the one

frg_Away WG9s

This already occurs in 2.53 and is a non issue there. I wanted to fix it for ages. We donÄt have CustomizableUI:

Timestamp: 16.02.2024, 21:07:05

Error: NS_ERROR_FILE_NOT_FOUND:

Source File: jar:file:///C:/Program%20Files/SeaMonkey/omni.ja!/components/devtools-startup.js

Line: 344

the devtools menu in suite needs to be fixed too.

yeah those are worthless outputs

ok then.. revert and apply all the patches see what that gets me

frg_Away: how did you bypass the ./mach run restriction in your testing of central

or did you just run it manually

I don't :) suite tests are broken anyway and if I test I build TB or Firefox. Fixing tests need a dedicated developer and will probably never happen.

I want a main window and I shall HAVE a main window.

idc if it works

i want it to display something

frg_Away:

you need to remove overlays first. init is alos broken.

do I?

lol

I suspect yes

that may indicate otherwise

;)

one of the tidbits nicked from waterfox

i think they stole it from thunderbird

tho

have to check to see

but yeah gonna apply the rest of these patches and see what happens

yes might work this way. Bug 1452448 tracks early stuff till I gave up.

Unfixed items from here need to be added too Bug 1433370

also not related but because moz.configure wasn't complex enough github.com/binaryoutcast/mxp-exampl…pp/blob/TRUNK/example/moz.configure

the whole mInitDllBlocklistOOP thing does require a change to mozilla-central

for seamonkey's xre to run unless you already added that

support

CaptainTobin: for where six missing is still a problem, well it probably won't matter if the issue is with a vendored copy in the build directory... but do you have also the six package installed? I only saw the pip one mentioned in the backlog, but not the six one?

fedora 38 with python 2.11 build fine

and yes i have six installed but can't install it for 3.11

on fc39

so i have no way to have six be available long enough to create the virtualenv that provides six to the buildsystem

buc may know more

but i can't talk to him

for now I am using an fc38 chroot

njsg:

for 2.53

i can build 2.121a1 just fine LOL

on fc39

ah, so it's only built for a single version of python3 at a time? sounds so from the changelog packages.fedoraproject.org/pkgs/python-six/python3-six/fedora-39.html

yeah and firefox doesn't require it to setup the virtualenv so it isn't shipped properly it seems

cause 3.11 is in 39 JUST for firefox and thunderbird

but buc somehow is still producing an rpm

so.. no idea for sure

njsg: remember fedora means rolling release as a social service

I can tell you this.. if fedora's misguided release stratgy is gonna impact my ability to dev mozcode i am gonna have a few things to say

CoordinatorTobin: what's fun is that for many packages Gentoo will give you more than that :-D

I mean, it's frequent that more than one version of python is supported, in some cases that does mean installing for both at the same time

yeah but fedora is only ever gonna support latest regardless if older exists

I need to get switched to el

or get my lfs going

Will SeaMonkey 3.0 come out?

njsg frg_Away WG9s lol

CoordinatorTobin: do you remeber shat changed to make it version 2 rather than version 1/

We will call it SeaMonkey 2030.1

WG9s: XPFE to Toolkit is why it was made 2.0

if it goes from XUL to XHTML that would warrent a 3

noit was source code repository changed form cvs to mercurial

i think

uhh was it?

the repo change happened around the same time xpfe and xpinstall were stripped down to barely anything

but 2.0 was totally because of the tech change from xpfe (nearly) to toolkit

frg_Away: I strongly suggest you don't do that cause the version is so damned high you can't change it later without busting aus

and profile checks

and shit

but.. a 3.YYYY.PATCH might be a good version scheme if esr bound

I/we don't plan too :) In any case we now have a display version which is different from the actual one. We could call it SeaMonkey 2.Donaldduck. Same for the installer package name

heh

Version display is annoying when you have an add-ons system dependant on version numbers

SeaMonkey 2030.1 will be y3k-compliant, but will it be y10k-complaint?

Internally it is not used. Just in the frontend code.

yeah

but the issue is it doesn't match the internal version so minVersion would be wrong

if someone typed the display version in

CoordinatorTobin: i seem to recall the version for changing the major version had to do with loss of change hisroty with the change in version control system.

maybe but i was told it was largely because of the massive xpfe to toolkit transition

likely was ratty

i miss ratty

You know, as Thunderbird's UX changes I kinda like the direction it is going tho the new ux stuff is badly clashing with the older ux stuff and they kinda have that spaces left toolbar half controlling tabs

Not that I don't like the traditional UI and layout hell I made Interlink's more like Borealis which means more like SeaMonkey MailNews

I just kinda think for them it could work really well and they do seem to be approching it with a lot more care than just skinning on australis style like what I removed from Interlink

WG9s:

but yeah why not poke at it some

it could be beneficial to my learning

also fun

seamonkey-central.. damned right

lol

there c-c patches applied

clobberbuild

Good thing about the linux is I can do part of the work from my craptop

craptop, not a hp consumer laptop, then? (those would be "lapburners")

hp elitebook orginally 2014 refarbed in .. well later 2010s

oh it gets warm and i run a second monitor off it

i abuse the HELL out of this machine

can barely play 1080p video and 2k is rather out of the question unless vlc and i never ever ever seek

lol

i also tell it to do it over smb from linux

so yeah i make my tech work for a living

so frg_Away does comm mean communicator or community to you personally?

Beats me. Nowadays it would be more community but when it was split maybe communicator. In any case not much community left also.

I want it to mean community

why is the Let's Encrypt certificate for ircbot.comm-central.org not updated since Feb 10 - the idea behind the 3 month lifetime of the Let's Encrypt certificate is that the certificate is/can automatically renewed and therefore should never be invalid

wow

WELL.. maybe someone needs to kick the cron job if automatically renewed or needs to manually renew it cause that is a totally valid option and I do it cause I run my own dns server and have multiple servers

mister guest_

But I betcha if you ask a bit nicer to someone actually apart of this project they will look into it ;)

Errors happen, oversights are made, fix it.. or deal with it is my emerging motto

these words from you LOL

Yes those words from me, so take note of the judgement made.

it has mentioned a few days ago that the cert had been expired but no activity so far

ROFL

y0 frg_Away WG9s the cc logbot domain has an invalid cert. May wanna fix it soonish.

Feb 11 - ircbot.comm-central.org:8080/seamonkey/20240211#c223359

still not our bot. need to wait

ah

who is running it?

it isn't glob

guest_: seems like it isn't much of an issue for you specifically ;)

I miss TheBot

fry_Away - are the any plans to remove description field from bookmarks dialog and places.sqlite or do you your best t keep the description field ?

he always knew the score

I know my brain needs a defrag when I open that link, in the context of this topic, and I still get surprised by the expired certificate message :-P

who is running it?

just need to add an exception to except the expired cert - I'm more suprised about the problem with the automated process of renewal process for Let's Encrypt certs

and why does it need to be https?

it's a public log of a public channel

guest_: there are like half a dozen methods to renew and issue le certs now

it isn't just nginx/apache and certbot

MattATobin - from above link I guess WG9s the SM Build Master

I do DNS verification and one day I will write the crap to automate it.. for now I just suck at keeping it up lol but once BinOC stuff is using it I am sure I will be more on it

guest_: why are you asking me?

Just cause I know everything doesn't mean I know a specific thing that minute lol

some browsers would complain or Father Search does lower the ranking if not https - hmm who cares about it ?

guest_: yeah but so far Mozilla browsers are all about connect at all costs

so it remains fairly easy to just accept and get through

I wouldn't even use HTTPS if I hadn't bought a five year cert anticipating a lot of BinOC/UXP innovation beyond the children of the moon

yeah - but bad practice to accept invalid cert

Father Search has spent so much effort promoting scam sites and smartphone-ready scrappers and contentless sites that it doesn't really matter much anymore

well just don't download any software from an invalid cert domain and have a content blocker and you'll be fine

Thumps up

also obviously personal info

yadda yadda

https everywhere negates https

for anything lower than EV

me I'd like if grandfather metasearch were still available in the form of a usable webcrawler with a js-less interface, and also good results

I miss webcrawler

MattATobin you're wrong - a lot of bad actions are possible even without downloading or content blocking

and xoom

last I checked webcrawler turned into a thing that relies on js even for pagination, if it's even still available, I gave up once it became unusable without js...

well, I also miss the search results sidebar!

js-less interface - do you mean WASM based UI ?

look this is all heading to node codegenning to rust

over the web

lol

guest_: no, I mean the non-Ycombinator-news understanding of "js-less" :-P

so guest_ you obviously have been within lunar orbit.. who are you lol

build is taking a minute

btw I attempted a disabled unified compilation with pgo

on firefox

the other day

it failed on profiling cause i was in a screen session and didn;t restart it.. already an 80 min build wasted lol

oh it's done.. 33 minutes at -j6 nice

now I have to get up to run it

ok I am gonna do a de-optimized and debug build find out what is happening cause I am getting nothing from the console of consiquence

need to setup a znc server.. there are too many Tobins running around

guest_ no plany to follow Firefox here. As long as it is based on our code I/we will try to keep this. I don't need it but there is no need to remove it and it serves a purpose from some.

he left

well, guest_ is aware of the logbot :-)

I think hrosik but I always forget the real name :)

well they know who I am so..

frg_Away: so you think it is likely suite glue making it not spawn a main window at all

OH

OH

It was some time ago I looked. The init code needs to be redone and then some more.

I wonder if it is because seamonkey relies on appshell to always in last ditch case default to chrome://navigator/content/navigator.xul

cause it don't do that no more

the fallback was killed

firefox and thunderbird spawn their main windows from their glue component

Also all e10s now.

my example app uses a toolkit pref in the command line handler

well I will know more once this debug build is done i can at least get the debug messages

btw frg_Away who are the canonical members of the seamonkey project and what is the group called or is it still SeaMonkey Council?

still the council. mcsmurf IanN and a few others.

and seamonkey is a legal entity now .. do you own the trademark or does mozilla license it?

SeaMonkey e.V. own the trademark

ah good

I swtiched over everything I found to the e.V. in suite. If there are other references need to deal with them too.

that does not exist in m-c appshell

anymore

urlStr.AssignLiteral(BROWSER_CHROME_URL_QUOTED);

that is how Firefox is doing it

it was glue i THOUGHT

but i dunno

maybe it was JUST thunderbird who used glue to spawn the main window

No but there wre tons of missing bugs. You probably need to go thru TBs history for base and components and then some.

I been referencing thunderbird's history but i need to get it up on github so i can search through it properly

I still recoomend TortoiseHg. Much superior.

Linux

available

I would approch it like this.. get a main window.. then ifdef off mailnews and composer so can deal with em later.. rig up that overlays esm and make navigator do something and go from there

and I am totally 100% not gonna attempt that very soon.. nope deff not at all.

TortoiseHg Linux: ibb.co/DRmRwKr

Yes I know kde Windows 7 theme :)

i just need to write one

i always wanted to do a xul based git client

Tortoisesvn and Tortoisegit are much inferior to the hg version under Windows fwiw.

WG9s: that confvar specifing default browser chrome url isn't working for some reason

but I did get a main window when I used the toolkit.defaultChromeURL pref