Good morning

libera staff eh? a fan or someone been bad?

hi tomman

and a-865

a backup a day keeps the DR away~

lol

good ol vmware

only damn thing that can run windows properly under linux

I need a shortcut so.. vm and samba

> VMWare

dude, RUN

RUN AWAY

FAST!

because Broadcom's came with the axe

and it's sharp

it's even worse than when Orrible® bought VirtualBox via Sun :/

yeah I know

but for RIGHT NOW

vmware is still vmware

the best way to run windows on linux today

tomorrow is a different story but I just need a shortcut

i wanna get stuff done fast and efficiently and for me right now that remains windows. Only a temporary situation but yeah.

either that or boot to windows direct.. and that is not even setup yet this vm partly is

love that clip

hmm.. can't see to EXECUTE anything over samba

Wait, wait. You wannt get stuff done fast and efficiently, and in order to accomplish that you are using MS Windows? Seriously?

That is NOT what Windows is for. Windows is for when you're deploying computes for users you don't want to have to train, and you don't care if they're productive or not as long as they don't ask you too many questions.

"Here, this'll work just like your computer at home. Or not work just like your computer at home, more like. Whatever. Just like your computer at home. Have fun."

s/wannt/want to/;

Well I am gonna be productive and ask questions anyway.

jonadab: never stopped be before

me*

jonadab: I been using computers since I was 3 and windows since windows 3.1 happened and you know what.. on linux currently I am using openbox and picom on x and that isn't gonna serve me for ever either

besides it isn't current windows its an ntlite'd ltsc 2019 to my specifications .. as close as I could get

so it basically presents its self more as Windows and less As a Service

I mean, you do you, but Windows is designed to be quick to _learn_ not quick to _use_ .

it isn't about me doing me it is simply right atm the lack of linux experience is slowing things way down or blocking

I hope broadcomm doesn't screw up vmware or at least not too much before I don't need to rely on a windows vm crutch much

I expect the worst they're going to do in the first three years or so, is deprioritize it so it doesn't get as actively maintained as you might prefer.

Long-term, who can say.

CaptainTobin: too late, Broadcom has already gutted VMWare and is in the process of extracting the value and throwing the pieces in the trash

no they will just enable newer windows 10 features to make 2019 as close to 2021 as possible and when 2021 goes THEN 2019 will be the last pseudo-real version of windows left and it will rot badly and yet a lot of people will stay on it

for example they're moving everybody to mandatory subscription models, and ONLY if you're This Tall Enough To Pass

tomman: damn it

the future of their desktop virtualization products is also unclear

they are trying to end keygens

but ESXi is already dead

really

so they fucked us

god damn it

well.. 15.5 works for now(tm)

well

shit

at least Orrible® is letting VirtualBox alone to stagnate and bitrot

but Broadcom is pulling the classic Wall Street move: sell the parts while the corpse is fresh

virtualbox fucked up my entire networking stack killing dbus and rendering my system unshutdownable

so tell me how oracle didn't screw up

I can't use VBox anyway due to The Sanctions™ (Orrible® blocked my entire country despite the embargo only targeting the government)

so I was pretty much forced to move to QEMU/libvirt

and libvert has no real windows acceleration atm

powerful, but also far from being as user-friendly as VBox

i can't use kvm as IF it was vmware

it isn't an analogous target or featureset

libvirt's handling of virtual networks is horrible, compared with VBox's seamless integration

vmware's handling was best

I haven't used VMWare since 2012 or so, back when Player was a nice tool

virtualbox has always looked like and operated as an example of open source's failure

it is a real shame

for me what was VBox's strongest selling point was its user friendliness - you could go from zero to VM in minutes

but that did made it not really suitable for servers and stuff

well.. it isn't like I will need to virtualize windows for practical using it as a computer in a window for very long

wanna run a headless VM on a server? Good Luck With That™ (systemd DID made things easier, but come on...)

just right now to get shit going

now, if all you need is to run good ole' XP on your desktop, VBox was like that supermarket brand mayonnaise - cheap, tastes good, and it comes from the same OEM as the big brand expensive mayos :D

and that is why kvm fails as a vmware workstation replacement.. it is geared to virtualize servers and be a node.. vmware workstation's primary function is to present you with a computer in a window

at reasonable performance

I need windows in a window not a server running windows

;)

yeah, that's what I'm saying too - KVM is aimed at being a ESXi competitor

you run that in a server farm, not in your laptop

but while vmware made that same tech work as a stellar virtual computer box in a window .. that isn't kvm's goals cause kvm is redhat

the work around is an open source impl of rdp with remotefx

instead of the vmware way which won't exist going forward i guess

and of course microsoft has depercated remotefx

and removed it from their hyperv server

as a display protocol

ha, Hy-Perv

my only experiences with Hy-Perv have been... craptacular

(2008R2 and 2012)

well yeah vmware was better

oh well.. vmware works today and so does my ltsc

my very first encounter with Hy-Perv was on 2008R2, I was trying to create a test VM to install CentOS 6 or something

needed to add a network card, so I went with a "synthetic NIC" (whatever that meant), and I could never get the VM to boot because of some obscure error related with that virtual NIC

ended erasing Hy-Perv and installing VMWare Player

years later I would test the waters again on 2012, and well... this time I did got things to boot (including Debian and the Win10 betas)

but by then I was unimpressed, and the VM GUI would often act all screwy so I said "to hell with this, I'm sticking to Vbox"

FOUR GIGS

THAT isn't enough ram

lol

hi mrnhmath

how are you this fine day

hey CaptainTobin, i'm doing good

how about you?

I been creating an xre app using modern mozilla

totally never existed

before

I hope to get a few tidbits changed in mozilla-central so the build system doesn't have to be modified to do that in the future

mrnhmath: cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1091…0223f0fb31451751871998503419904.png

facinating isn't it

that looks cool, seems like a huge task with lots to learn from

a lot of it is .. just adapting

mozilla xhtml doesn't look too bad

this is just an experiment

are you using mozilla central, last esr or else?

release atm

is github working for you

a bit slow but yes

mrnhmath: github.com/binaryoutcast/mozxhtml-example-app

it's only a browser because well that is what most of mozilla has been focused on so seemed the easiest to get working

but once I figure out how widgets work now as customelements how to use and even possibly create them I will have a nice example sample thing

doing again what some even my self deemed "impossible"

very interesting

I just don't wanna maintain a platform codebase as anything more than a testing ground for things I will want to submit or fix in mozilla.. There are PLENTY of existing platform codebases and applications I can assist if they are up for it..

that could be used as a benchmark for all the work they've done too

like the xbl to ce stuff

Thunderbird has a few elements firefox doesn't use i believe

like a statusbar

but i need to restart

i knew i wasn't gonna get away with installing vmware without doing it on linux

tomman: hold on, where did I put HP Disaster Recovery... (was that actually branded HP?)

CoordinatorTobin: it's possible broadcom will just make vmware reach the quality level of their wireless firmware

tomman: can't you get virtualbox anyway? or do you need proprietary components? given it's floss, it can be distributed without caring about oracle

njsg: Debian no longer distributes it on their stable repos because of some licensing spat with Orrible® over backporting security patches

also: I can't access the bugtracker, forums, and of course I need the Oracle Extension Pack

at least for Java I've got embargo-free choices, like Temurin

yeah, the extension pack I understand, but what licensing spat could that be?

I'll just guess that debian has the law on their side but oracle attacked with their legal department.

it's oracle, so it's a safe bet.

I can't recall the specifics, but yes, Debian has the habit of backporting security patches for older releases and Oracle refused because it's not in their best interests to disclose those fixes

or some similar BS

(There are ways to install VirtualBox on Debian, but that ship long sailed for me, sadly)

i thought VirtualBox was floss

floss is what Orrible lawyers use, yes :D

unless the fixes concern something that's specifically not GPL, or oracle has the full copyright of VirtualBox and relicenses it to release the fix without the source

IIRC the situation was basically: Debian: "we need the security patches from your latest release to backport them to our release"

Orrible: "lolno, we don't do that, use the latest release"

Debian: "that's not how we do things in Debian land"

Orrible: "go pound sand then, and beware of the laywers"

--lawyers

`./configure --disable-lawyers

now VBox only survives in Sid, and a very niche repo known as Fasttrack, that nobody knows that it even exists

well, I guess this depends on who has copyrights in VirtualBox and if anyone is willing to fund Debian's legal expenses, because that is in violation of the GPL.

well we can't keep just trying to cancel people these license bits are gonna have to be put to the test and actually solidifed at some point or another

However, history has proven I am not the man to make open source licenses reasonably enforceable.

that is for DAMNED sure

packages.debian.org/sid/virtualbox note that it's not even on "main", but on "contrib" (because of some DSFG Nedflanderisms because Open Watcom is required to build the BIOS)

I guess the easiest course of action is a fork.

But that said I've been meaning to have a deeper look at qemu, VirtualBox has never served me that well

well kvm will be fine for non-gui linux

no problems whatsoever

I think now it can't even keep the host's keyboard mapping

because that is what it is designed for

since some version, I've got to set hacks in the guest OS to have caps lock as control

windows will work but not well gui wise outside rdp

and I don't remember the settings I used to get really good virtual hd access

the only thing I did was to make HDs "fixed", although I guess switching to a virtual I/O controller probably helps too, if there's one

bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=794466 ah, there is it

> virtualbox: might not be suitable for stable releases due to lack of cooperation from upstream on security support for older releases

and Orrible's answer? "Unfortunately there is an Oracle policy which forbids us to provide relevant information about security bugs, see here: oracle.com/us/support/assurance/vul…y-remediation/disclosure/index.html"

To be fair, this is mostly a self-inflicted wound by Debian, but Oracle's lawyerisms do not help at all, especially with a supposedly FOSS project

so far looks like there is source, but that what oracle is not providing is the link between [code] changes and the listed fixed vulnerabilities?

IIRC yes, they will tell "we fixed CVE-blah-blah, but can't tell you how we did because Corporate Policy"

so that leaves downstream to figure out what they did changed, which is a lot of extra work

(not to mention that such an approach might introduce new security bugs, or break functionality!)

there HOPEFULLY I have made vmware and samba co-exist

... pain in the ass

man everything being network based in linux is really fuckin stupid if the networking stack busts

anything can do it it seems

sssd makes samba fuck the network stack when vmware is started tl;dr among a lot of things

which kills dbus and cripples pretty much any ipc

systemwide

its pretty spectacular

yeah I am not impressed either

Yep.. still Tobin. cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1091…21833/1202014264400035951/image.png

why bother with System V when you have Sailor V? :D