17:06:16 <frg_Away> MattATobin Hi. Is the xref gone? thereisonlyxulorg seems to be defunct.
17:08:04 <frg_Away> need to leave for now. bbl
17:18:48 <MattATobin> what
17:18:52 <MattATobin> it shouldn't be gone
17:22:35 <MattATobin> oh ffs
17:25:04 <MattATobin> frg and everyone my deepest appologies.. It seems the domain actually expired today and I thought I had all those first of the month expires shifted.. Either way I payed the xul bill so xul should be resuming soon automagically!
17:25:48 <MattATobin> I have been deep into .. THE LINUX.. so guess I need to pay more attention to other stuffs again.
17:38:33 <MattATobin> cross-reference seems to be resolving again http://xr.thereisonlyxul.org/ but the mainsite has to wait until their parking page dns entries expire
17:58:49 <tomman> in other news, IBM/RH effectively served X11's execution order this week
17:58:54 <tomman> how that affects us?
17:59:15 <tomman> (aside of "well, XWayland hasn't been sent to the death row yet")
18:08:31 <WG9s> tomman: The correct name for that is Weston.
18:09:01 <WG9s> is a town adjacent to Wayland
18:11:54 <WG9s> tomman: just sayin' the corrct term for the Wayland shim to support X11 apps is called Weston and NOT XWayland.
18:22:36 <MattATobin> tomman: it is basically pointless for you to weeks later confirm crap I told you about weeks prior
18:23:00 <MattATobin> just a tip if you can reallocate effort into stuff I don't tell everyone
18:23:11 <tomman> MattATobin: well, we already knew that, but it wasn't until this week where it finally got officially confirmed :/
18:23:18 <MattATobin> lol
18:23:25 <MattATobin> maybe I know more than most do
18:23:40 <MattATobin> not JUST from my keen extraporlating worst case bs
18:24:20 <MattATobin> like actual things because i heard about it before it was commonly announced cause I pay attention to projects and people
18:27:37 <MattATobin> now what I am telling you is what I said at the time the decision has already been made and what I been hinting at is that we should make a stand on xwayland cause it IS an xorg impl and the xfce guy is largely heading it up so I am far more hopeful that it will not be a piss poor x app compat layer but fully capable as an xserver and the hope THERE is that if that is proven then maybe wayland can be paired down into something more
18:27:37 <MattATobin> like a thinner abstraction layer between X and the kernel and JUST do shit x kinda sucks at
18:27:45 <MattATobin> like compositing
18:28:04 <MattATobin> either that or give us actual 2d accelerator chips on graphics cards again and piss off with the new hotness lol
18:28:07 <MattATobin> right tomman
18:29:34 <tomman> have your two triangles, one offscreen buffer, and have fun with that
18:30:09 <MattATobin> bitch i been assembling an openbox environemnt and using picom
18:30:43 <MattATobin> when xwayland is capable of THAT i will accept it as my own personal jesus christ
18:30:49 <MattATobin> and that IS gonna happen
18:31:12 <MattATobin> no matter if gnome or wayland its self likes it or not
18:31:40 <MattATobin> because wayland as-is is just not acceptable beyond the exact livecd configuration IF it runs on your hardware
18:31:48 <tomman> there is the other problem: GNOME
18:32:07 <tomman> from what I've read, there are two leading Wayland implementations: GNOME and "everything else"
18:32:20 <tomman> "everything else" does rights more or less OK, within the broken Wayland specs
18:32:28 <MattATobin> gnome fancies its self THE linux de and toolkit
18:32:35 <tomman> but GNOME is... yeah, "what do you mean you want to run 3rd party apps on it?!"
18:32:46 <MattATobin> and during gnome2 they were FULLY FUCKING JUSTIFIED
18:32:54 <MattATobin> not so much now
18:33:04 <MattATobin> so I think there are some solutions and no i don't mean xul
18:33:15 <tomman> so not only we have a broken protocol where "your use case does not exist", we also have a leading implementation where nothing works except what is written by them
18:33:30 <MattATobin> qt would be the best toolkit ever except for that damned mobile web not-xul qml shit
18:33:53 <MattATobin> tomman: yes and now we are all gonna fix it somehow
18:34:03 <MattATobin> because it is at the point where even they are starting to question
18:34:07 <MattATobin> i have SEEN it happening
18:34:20 <tomman> Anyway, my position on all this is "X11 is the hill I'm gonna die on" and I'll be avoiding Wayland like the pest as hard as I can
18:34:55 <tomman> my hardware is aging anyway, so I guess it's matter of time...
18:34:55 <MattATobin> you won't be able to and it won't matter if nothing EXCEPT xorg is using the wayland client and I would very much like to have a hand in esuring THAT happens
18:35:12 <MattATobin> also X11 is not one implimentation
18:35:13 <MattATobin> xorg is
18:35:16 <MattATobin> xwayland is
18:35:20 <MattATobin> and xfre86 was
18:35:24 <tomman> well, read X11 as in "X.org" :D
18:35:28 <MattATobin> yes
18:35:33 <MattATobin> and you seriously shouldn't
18:35:39 <MattATobin> like when you read Mozilla as Firefox
18:35:54 <MattATobin> that shouldn't BE how people percieve it
18:36:03 <MattATobin> and that is one key thing to try and alter
18:37:02 <MattATobin> the IDEAL outcome if no xorg which btw xorg as an organization barely exists.. is for wayland to be paired down to serve xwayland and everything else shat into gnome modules that no one else but they and maybe cinnamon use
18:37:12 <MattATobin> and force them to keep x11 support
18:37:34 <MattATobin> but even a MESSURE of that ideal result is far better than the prosects even a year ago on this wayland bs
18:37:36 <MattATobin> tomman:
18:39:43 <MattATobin> although if "The Squash" hadn't held his gtk2 vaporfork and not the good kind of vapor that creates waves of old 90s and 80s cg shit but the bad kind where other people don't bother because they think someone is gonna handle it..
18:40:04 <MattATobin> cause he went EVERYWHERE touting this project
18:40:13 <MattATobin> everywhere people were pissed and ready to do something
18:40:55 <MattATobin> till he came in said all the crap they wanted to hear and then slowly pissed off when his bs became obvious
18:41:57 <MattATobin> anyway if the xulorg ain't resolving flush your dns cache everything is resolving with fresh records and the xref source has been kicked