sup CaptainTobin

w1ckn1x: oh coordinating my own shit.. you know just for a change of pace :P

heh. right on.

you gave the arctic fox to someone at some point?

yeah. maybe 2 years ago or so. riccardo wanted to go another direction with it, and it was getting too long in the tooth for me. still great for old, low spec devices though.

leanred about it when I decided that xul site i been trying to do since 2017 should likely just include everything.. everything but Firefox and Thunderbird its self regardless of post-xul state

or affiliation most of all

Well it is kinda nice to know now that the Tycho codebase is holding up even if it is dated

yeah. he's been adding some newer JS to it, and support for other arch's and OS's.

its still quite capable with most of the web yet.

it was extremely hard to abandon it even tho i didn't typically show it.. So much had been done and UXP even today is still a little bit more mozfucked than tycho was in some respects

w1ckn1x: I'd suggest he look more into resolving how we fucked the js engine and trying to fill the gap by some sugrical retrofitting of newer engines SPECIFICALLY .. UXP's

or beyond

im sure he already ran in to that. he emails me every so often for an extra set of eyes when it breaks.

I have theorized a total swapout is reletively "easy" to achieve including resolving dom and xpc bits likely up to esr60.. some of frg's hg replay patch queue work would tend to support that theory

not from a UXP base not strictly but a pure mozbase

because UXP's development like Tycho's has been pick and choose between moz and independant impls

and UXP even more so especially since 2020

i'm still messing around with uxp. it's one of few things i can get building on powerpc linux thats still pretty capable on the web.

it would still be AS possible as stock esr52 but it would be a hell of a lot more messy

well I will be too but obviously I ain't unified and I ain't gonna claim the name after this time.. doesn't matter but I will make modifications tho my old ambitions are obviously not gonna work out as I hoped.. So thin-platform fork to not violate name bs i am always on about.. so going for Universal XUL Platform and it ain't like UXP is a unique acyronym now with Adobe Unified Experience

I'll be glad when all this apple silicon bs is over with and we just settle for risc v w1ckn1x

and arm just dies off or is relegated to extreme low power junkware

that is priced properly as such lol

might be awhile, but i hear ya. i'm not buying in to the new macs yet. i have insanely outdated macs, and they work just fine for my needs. my 2010 macpro builds UXP browsers in 9-11 minutes flat (12 core 3.47ghz, 64gb ram, 4 ssd's)

i dont need no apple silicon :)

how the hell you avoided the tendancy for software updates to subtly erode hardware even if you go back i dunno

w1ckn1x: also I hope I can figure out what subtle issues g4jc created from his inital webcomponents stuff that is affecting interlink today and need to bring my self to actually run epyrus and see if it is similarly affected cause I have confirmed whatever is fucking up interlink has been doing so from that merge onward and was NOT present in the redwood v28 branch

once I do THAT maybe I can figure out how to fix it

what sort of issues is it causing? i dont use either, but i like knowing these things. ;)

for now I am just gonna sec patch redwood.. and see how it goes.. but since everyone else has release borealis in part and in full and it has been like my most popular project that has never been actually released I should release it.. I also have a ton of php to write

it's odd render errors and strange unexplained failures in older parts of the codebase that just don't happen in Pale Moon..

largely with some xbl things but it has been causing unexplained issues for me for .. since I noticed it last year and haulted everything

and I have deff not been at my best for a while now

weird.... and speaking of borealis... i did fork it myself also. new name and icons obviously, but it was/is a very cool project i hoped you'd have finished.

but at the end of the day.. I was in command at the time, Moonchild opted out of all participation regarding webcomponents and I could have tested my own shit instead of just Pale Moon before agreeing to that illadvised merge

i do remember the g4jc stuff on irc at the time, but hadnt really followed it.

I do still feel some responsibility to the broader UXP ecosystem and the users indeed to the entirety of the mozillasphere save mozco themselves

it is why when I make my phoebus successor it will have a migration path for phoebus.. I am only gonna retain a handful of extensions my self from the datastore so i deff don't need it.. and I want to find the direct cause if not the solution for the webcomponents issue in non-phoenix targeted code

w1ckn1x: not to mention thereisonlyxul.org

speaking of.. you got an icon and a tagline so i can list it directly instead of having to guess

yeah i saw you brought that back online and cleaned it up a bit and added new links.

sure do. github.com/wicknix/SeaLion

there were a lot of things I started in 2017 after I stepped down from the project that got aborted when I came back to save the day with UXP Take 2 (the one that worked)

yeah i know. in over your head. too many projects.

same happened to me, so i killed off some projects, gave arctic fox away, etc.

god i am sorry w1ckn1x

this tree is a god damned disaster

heh. it could use a tidy up. not argument there.

w1ckn1x: how much have you materally changed from Borealis cause you might wanna consider rebasing after I re-evolve.. it will be taken from pre-removing mac state

cause honestly asking you to clean up that mess of half-distrated moves and removes is ridiculous

and I put you specifically through enough last time

not much. i changed some prefs, the built in themes, added some mac specific stuff. nothing over the top.

i did slowly start removing windows support though. a rebase that runs on win/lin/mac would be cool, but since i own no win machines i deemed it extra bloat. heh

windows IS extra bloat

lol

but i'd like to keep it for now

but idc

strip it out again

should be properly ifdef'd

i just cant build for windows is all.

if not by the developers here then by me

it's trival in a vm

i can teach you how to set it up

i have the ability and machines to build for intel mac, x86 linux, and powerpc linux.

I remember dude

i suppose a vm could work. later down the line.

for navigator? 12gbs of ram 64bit windows vs2022 mozillabuild and mozconfig is about all you need these days

seriously it is even easier now than it was when I was doing it dozens of times a day

cause vs2022 includes all the deps

this was just a small project for myself that i initially shared with the few remaining powerpc linux users and poor saps still stuck on macOS 10.7

fair enough still it isn't complicated maybe something to attempt one day.. I am sure I can figure out what changed by then for you

then i liked it so much i built for x86_64 linux

well I am ok with it and assuming I had any credibility left to point out technically as an unreleased product you have no actual entitlement to the patches you are using.. and you might even agree with me today.. but why have the argument.. like mrhnmath i am giving you technically valid but practically worthless permission to use any code modification short of branding from binoc-central and whatever i call the final repo i

am gonna be using head of Borealis release.

so no problems to expect from me.. and if you need something ask and I might even do it :)

appreciate it.

and people think Firefox has a rich legacy.. bah

heh

Firefox isn't even actually decended from navigator.xul

firefox its self is NOT a direct decendant of the suite it IS decended from xpfe components and snipplets here and there from the application ui

HOWEVER Thunderbird is a DIRECT decendant of the mailnews ui in the suite

w1ckn1x: HEY have you ever written a multi-site content management system? cause I am gonna do that and maybe half it half done tonight

i was a huge nutscrape fan back in the day. yes, i used to call it that. heh

nope, cant say i have.

well technically I have with Phoebus

but that was specialized

and static or stored content

not like posts and bugs and issues and all that

still site first then other multicomponents.

sounds like a headache waiting to happen. lol

and a damned successor to phoebus if it will be used anywhere other than thereisonlyxul.org i dunno but.. it will be capable.

w1ckn1x: nah i been wanting to do this shit since 2013

my damned priorities were so damned bent to MCP Priorities it is a wonder BinOC was ever relaunched at all

hey whatever trips your trigger. more power to ya. i hated setting up php on apache 20 years ago.

no way i could write something better

well nginx and php-fpm is nicer

than apache

w1ckn1x: is the sealion logo using the second painted moon or is it a close copy

im sure by now theres better stuff. i dont host anything like i used to. just a home network only server hosting flash games via mini_httpd

very close copy. google image searched similar because i wanted to kind of pay tribute to PM/UXP with the logo.

well I intend on making my new add-ons site capable of a full spectrum of mozilla installable extensions.. from xpfe xpis to toolkit xpis to the webextensions and static themes

that'd be neat

I want to provide a community resource for people who don't have others to lean on for their mozilla-based projects

again i dunno if many outside my own projects will use it but it will be there

im sure it'll be noticed and used. it'd be the archive of all archives for extensions/themes/docs/resources/etc.

I do plan to also do that too

that extensions archive site

that still needs a lot of space tho

i imagine

19gbs roughly

could be 24

not as bad as i wouldve thought

i currently have over 80gb of just flash movies and games. lol

justoff's indexing was always sloppy especially when he added my earlier stores but I have all the stuff to read all the metadata avilable and fill in for a good ARCHIVE just not targeted as a functional add-ons site.. for getting testing and forking

and it was a mission I set out to do and it is one I will actually accomplish and it helps accomplish the mission of the xulorg to be a community resource

one stop shop. i like it.

brb. going to step out for a smoke.

I have a sneaking suspicion even current mozilla technology in the correct hands might be capable of some cool shit despite all the rust.. but i got xul to deal with and the php and the windows .. you got smokes bsds and the oldmacs..

so I shall have to go because I have been TRYING not to exclusively commondeer this poor project's channel for my own purposes.. I got irc.. I am sure you can work it out if you are so inclined. Nice to talk to you again and I mean that.

you to dude. been what seems like ages. i'm guessing its irc is similar to the websites name. i'll look for it.

status meeting in 20 minutes - wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2023-10-22

status meeting time - wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2023-10-22

Hi rsx11m

hi frg IanN

hi .*

hi rsx11m

hi njsg

Who's taking minutes?

me and late as usual

thanks for taking them

Nominees for Friends of the Fish Tank?

IanN for moving crah reporter to BugSplat and WG9s for providing archived builds.

seconded

thirded and fourded

thanks

Action Items

Not much new I think. mozilla services still in limbo but we will distribute binaries ourselved at the end of the year.

^ourselves

.

you accepting any mesure of community mirroring?

Hi MattATobin

hi a but late had a phone call

MattATobin I don't think we mind mirroring but we need our own server in any case.

indeed

Hi tonymec|away

everyone is late it seems lol

I am always late with the notes :)

well consistancy matters too just ask .. me

Status of the SeaMonkey Infrastructure

Unchanged but crash reports now go to BugSlpat in prerelease builds and the next beta too.

BugSplat has no public interface so you can not view them.

do they have an API?

so some sort of public fe could be done?

I think you can see them if you have an account on BugSplat

Status of the SeaMonkey Source Tree

All good I think.

I noticed that our central patch queue was not public and changed access: gitlab.com/frg/seamonkey-central-patches

Only good if you want a bleeding edge non working build :)

so traditional mozilla build

:P

nothing else I think.

Anyone building 2.53 with gcc 12 or later?

Release Train

2.53.18b1 will hopefully appear soon. Last finishing touches under way.

wanted to do abit more for web compatibility but no time continuing with SpiderMonkey changes lately.

Extensions Tracking

but the ported regexp changes from buc help with alot of websites.

bau wrt extensions I think.

Are you being kicked off atbn eventually i can't remember

not yet

still in limbo

2.Next, Feature List, Planning & Roundtable

bau

are you open to not removing full themes?

we do not want to remove them. Would also affect modern.

yepp

webext theme support is mega cr*p.

it's persona just not "as a service"

cause you have the theme resources in a static xpi.. static lightweight themes == webex themes

I only use classic but what they calls themes now is an insult to my intelligence (or whats left of it).

tho you DID want an adapter or new type so it could still be USED as persona correct?

Basically the lightweight tehem support needs to go and switch to webext themes without affecting the full ones.

well that was basically how mozilla did it except they made it not-backwards compat.. no big deal

just like i said before don't expect Firefox Color to work :P

yes. The old lightweight themes are cr*p and the new ones too so no change :)

literally frg static themes are lightweight themes in an xpi with automatic hndling

and slightly modified from that

i looked up the progression

the json is nearly identical too

i can literally FEED them into the current lightweighttheme provider and get a eprsona out of it but the handling would be sloppy so you are correct rip out lwtheme provider add static theme provider and make sure it doesn't bust

:)

AOB

bau

Reminder that the Daylight Saving Summer Time is ending for the next meeting! 8-)

Just in Time for Halloween

so, 15:00 UTC

sppokey as always

darker nights

spookie

^spooky

frg: it's a lifestyle choice

THO

why not make mettings aligned for a week after each firefox relese so you can include in the status notes fallout from their choices in parts you are backporting

and web standards that have landed

just a suggestion

Timeframe is all over the place and now always aligned.

^not always

ah

ok guys, have to go ...

rsx11m: good to see you

thanks for your time everyone

see you November 12th!

see you.. every day almost if you like it or not lol

in here

next meeting in 3 weeks, same bat channel same bat time with DST adjustment

bye

holy daylight savings batman

the daylifnt/summertime shift is why I entered this in the calendar app as being at 3PM UK time (which i jokingly refer to as IanN standard time) so it appropriately alarms me

bye and not bye that is the question. So be away for now.

and still here

it's tradition

frg_Away:

a long line of seamonkey people before you and after you we hope will be away and here at the same time.. seamoney beat quantum years ago.. why did mozilla have to do it with the engine?

missed the meeting :/

aww

well help yourself to the snack table tomman

there's a snack table!?

njsg Too late. It is empty.

is the table edible?

if you like plastic then yes

hm, I'll pass then, I was mostly looking for coffee anyway :-P

well, maybe if it was made from organic plastics...

"coming soon to your nearest IKEA: <insert swedish word for edible soy table>"

Tuesday is soylent table day!