16:13:05 <tomman> Gonna update my nightly in a few minutes, any late-minute breaking bugs or new shinies I need to be aware of?
16:14:33 <frg_Away> tomman using it all day. So far not. New async cookie stuff in but seems to work.
16:14:43 <tomman> OK, I'm good to go then~
16:23:37 <NewTobinParadigm> frg_Away: do i need to kick the xulorg xref?
16:24:51 <NewTobinParadigm> i should just setup the dang cron job it won't do anything if there is nothing to do.. Yeah I'll do that .. disregard the question
16:25:08 <NewTobinParadigm> also... NO NOT AS THIS NAME I WON'T
16:25:23 <frg_Away> NewTobinParadigm Hi! No only in the prerelease yet. We are late with 2.53.18
16:26:17 <MattATobin> frg_Away: I have had a week I tell you
16:26:31 <MattATobin> lot of local insanity
16:26:51 <MattATobin> really has my mind focused tho..
16:28:41 <frg_Away> MattATobin well insanity seems to be the new normal :)
16:29:28 <MattATobin> well not the new insanity
16:29:33 <MattATobin> this is.. classic insanity
16:29:40 <MattATobin> I am well suited to handle it.
16:29:44 <MattATobin> frg_Away: :P
16:29:53 <tomman> insanity is the new normal indeed, be it old or new
16:30:11 <tomman> the very moment you push the power button on a PC, you don't run code, you invoke insanity
16:30:14 <MattATobin> yeah but the new insanity thinks the old insanity is old and insecure
16:30:18 <MattATobin> or something tomman
16:30:19 <MattATobin> lol
16:30:52 <tomman> ah, that reminds me that GNOME wants to nuke X11 and Wayland defenders want to bury me with the usual "butbutbut it is INSECUUUUUUUURE!!!!" crap
16:31:05 <MattATobin> tomman: I told you this a month ago
16:31:17 <tomman> gonna be fun when Debian finally switches to Wayland with no option to go back
16:31:18 <MattATobin> did you forget I am also a KIND of prophet?
16:31:26 <MattATobin> sometimes
16:31:34 <tomman> unlike Pipewire, a transition that was so subtle that things kept working without even noticing
16:31:51 <tomman> man, I didn't had time to hate on Pipewire because... It Just Werks™!
16:32:03 <tomman> that's something you can rarely say from any new piece of software these days
16:32:07 <tomman> but Wayland... lolno
16:32:24 <MattATobin> well wayland is gonna be forced on everyone regardless
16:32:31 <MattATobin> xorg is dead
16:32:36 <MattATobin> it has been dead for 10 years
16:32:51 <MattATobin> deader than seamonkey under neil's leadership
16:32:59 <tomman> then I'm a extinct dinosaur
16:33:09 <tomman> if Debian forces Wayland on me, then I'm switching back to Windows Me
16:33:15 <MattATobin> tomman: nah you're a cave man
16:33:17 <tomman> or simply quitting computers forever
16:33:36 <MattATobin> and your cave will likely outlast the other fucker's shack
16:33:47 <tomman> my cave is anything but shiny
16:33:53 <tomman> but at least it has LED lamps :D
16:34:19 <MattATobin> anyway the SOLUTION is
16:34:28 <MattATobin> make em do what they should anyway
16:34:34 <MattATobin> which has been working recently
16:34:40 <MattATobin> but it will never be x12
16:34:43 <MattATobin> however
16:34:58 <MattATobin> xwayland could be if more focus and attention was given
16:35:19 <MattATobin> and more features added so that xwayland can actually HOST a de not just an application
16:35:41 <MattATobin> this SEEMS to be the ONLY viable way through short of a new effort to create an actual x11 successor
16:35:48 <MattATobin> tomman:
16:36:58 <MattATobin> which would fail as it is too foundational to continue without vendor and distro support
16:37:05 <MattATobin> or someone's bank account anyway
16:37:13 <tomman> People insist in saying that "Wayland IS X12" and "Xorg developers are now Wayland developers", but with so many half-assed / missing / outright broken features, "my way or the highway" developers (sounds familiar?), nVidia's refusal to play ball (not Wayland's fault per se, but shaming users for their GPU choices is of bad taste), and a general disregard for anything that isn't lifted off...
16:37:14 <tomman> ...from cellphones... well
16:37:24 <tomman> ...I'm not using Wayland for as long as I'm alive
16:37:39 <MattATobin> tomman: then you will not be using linux eventually
16:37:44 <MattATobin> are you prepared for that
16:38:14 <tomman> I'm a citizen of the Soviet Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela, so soon I would not even be using electricity
16:38:19 <tomman> so yeah...
16:38:41 <MattATobin> well least it makes it more interesting
16:38:54 <MattATobin> which goes first
16:38:58 <MattATobin> x11 or basic electric
16:40:12 <tomman> that's no fair, betting on Venezuela is like betting on a race between a Formula 1 and a stolen bike with a flat tire :D
16:40:20 <MattATobin> tomman: well just please understand i was not trying to say do this or else only highlight the consiquences.. most unlike you or I make those declairations and then a few days later are doing what they said they don't forgive me
16:40:51 <tomman> nah, I'm well aware that the future is grim no matter which path me or the world pursues
16:41:24 <MattATobin> can you .. leave?
16:42:58 <tomman> nah
16:43:14 <tomman> the last thing the world needs is yet another Venezuelan defector fleeing from a not-war
16:43:25 <tomman> not an option for me, and that's for the best
16:43:51 <tomman> at least I have a roof, some food, and aging computers being actively sabotaged by Apple wannabes :)
18:42:48 <njsg> MattATobin: hasn't Xorg actually had a recentish release in the past few months? or that was just changing build systems?
18:43:31 <njsg> the problem might be that there is no other group working on X, or is there any other X project?
18:44:39 <njsg> (who's the current upstream for Xorg? freedesktop?)
19:11:31 <norgo> hello, tried seamonkey 2.53.18b1-pre. this developer version contains a "New RegExp Engine in Spidermonkey" patch. This new RegExp Engine improove massively the capability to show javascript websites correctly. Does somebody know whether thist new RegExp Engine will be added to source code in version 2.53.18 ?
21:26:28 <MattATobin> njsg: yeah but no one is invested in active development it is basically more zombied than sm was circa say 2015
21:57:47 <frg_Away> norgo the new regexp will be 2.53.18. The prerelease will become the beta and then the release. Hopefully pretty soon. Still polishing a few things.
22:15:43 <MattATobin> frg_Away: if it would help once I get xulorg's xr back onto another server I could support a latest_trunk.txt as well
22:20:56 <frg_Away> MattATobin well there is only the messy queue and no actual latest trunk so this would be hard to achieve I think.
22:21:45 <MattATobin> yeah i see
22:22:06 <MattATobin> Spam.
22:22:12 <MattATobin> I bought a can of spam
22:22:17 <MattATobin> for what reason I dunno
22:23:18 <frg_Away> MattATobin 2.53.18 got lots of backports and is overdue. Usually it is not that bad and evern here the xref 2.53.17.1 is usually ok. Check it frequently for stuff.
22:23:51 <MattATobin> i can't wait to try it my self and build with it
22:23:52 <MattATobin> also
22:24:37 <MattATobin> frg_Away: for central do i just need vs2022 the sdk and rust and mozillabuild and i can build per normal or do i HAVE to use mach bootstrap
22:24:43 <MattATobin> rust/clang*
22:24:56 <MattATobin> cause i really hate that mach bootstrap process
22:27:58 <frg_Away> MattATobin I think you need mach bootstrap. need to set up clang cbindgen bindgen nasm and a ton of other dependencies. Central is becoming worse by the month. Also the configure pulls in the stuff anyway during build unless you use ac_add_options --disable-bootstrap
22:28:31 <frg_Away> Also ac_add_options --without-wasm-sandboxed-libraries unless you want to have some fun with rlbox.
22:28:32 <MattATobin> linux isn't as bad i take it
22:29:26 <frg_Away> yes but you still need llvm. But atl least the dependencies are mostly used from system.
22:29:55 <MattATobin> thank you for that tho --disable-bootstrap should give me enough to assemblem manually and create a guide only a few nutballs like me will use but hey that is part of what I do right frg_Away
22:30:48 <MattATobin> I just don't like the idea of mozilla controlling and installing toolchain stuff
22:30:53 <MattATobin> it is.. conserning
22:31:14 <MattATobin> I get why they do it but damn manual instructions would be nice
22:31:26 <MattATobin> I WILL WRITE THEM
22:33:10 <frg_Away> let me check if we have reached the 500 rust crates dependency yet :)
22:33:22 <tomman> could be worse
22:33:24 <tomman> could be... node.js
22:35:14 <frg_Away> tomman They now pull in node js packages too and depend on them :)
22:35:26 <tomman> eww
22:36:03 <frg_Away> Only 491 rust crates. 4 more than the last time I counted. We are getting close!
22:40:30 <MattATobin> well
22:40:52 <MattATobin> it's only a problem if you ever have to touch the code
22:41:32 <MattATobin> too bad aside from waterfox badly doing it and whaetver wackjob direction thunderbird is going no one else uses CURRENT mozilla technology for anything
22:41:56 <MattATobin> not really
22:42:05 <MattATobin> not for more than a minor rebuild
22:53:30 <frg_Away> The build system is turning into a maze and you have a hard time using parts of iany gecko code.
22:54:20 <tomman> I've seen projects whose build systems HAVE a build system!
22:54:33 <tomman> I guess that's the next step for Mozilla
23:17:36 <MattATobin> well leave why don't you
23:17:37 <MattATobin> LOL
23:17:40 <MattATobin> hi tomman
23:18:19 <MattATobin> tomman: isn't mozbuild a build system to generate makefiles that rely on autoconf?
23:18:47 <MattATobin> is that even a real question because as a "Build System God" as I deemed my self some time ago I already know the answer
23:19:31 <tomman> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Notifications_API/Using_the_Notifications_API wait, what - MDN now dies with a WSoD here!?
23:19:43 <tomman> it blinks for a split second, then... bye bye page
23:19:50 <tomman> "SyntaxError: An invalid or illegal string was specified"
23:20:12 <tomman> that line starts with !function()
23:20:48 <tomman> > SyntaxError: An invalid or illegal string was specified   main.553bdfe0.js:2
23:21:15 <tomman> ah no, it's some .TS script
23:21:30 <tomman> iframe.contentWindow?.postMessage?.(message, { targetOrigin: "*" });
23:22:05 <tomman> https://developer.mozilla.org/static/js/playground/utils.ts