00:15:13 <Tobin> hi tomman and tonymec|away
00:15:41 <tonymec|away> hi Tobin
00:16:57 <Tobin> tonymec|away: thereisonlyxul.org is finally gonna become that resource I always promised it would starting with its own Community Cross-Reference of which I will accept trees to be added later .. seamonkey 2.53's tree has been transfered there off BinOC's xr
00:17:16 <Tobin> I also expanded it to include anything with a Netscape Heritage
00:17:22 <Tobin> so Post-XUL is included
00:17:33 <Tobin> needs a redesign tho
00:17:57 <tonymec|away> hm
00:18:56 <Tobin> basically tonymec|away watch out.. I am just sane enough to do things again.. ANYTHING COULD HAPPEN.
00:19:04 <Tobin> ;)
00:21:19 <tonymec|away> at least we are warned :-P
00:23:39 <Tobin> well i guess if mrnhmath is doing the UXP suite that isn't SO bad
00:23:52 <Tobin> wonder why it was so hard to parse out who was doing it
02:51:29 <CaptainTobin> tonymec|away: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1091572226748321833/1158233672684687400/PQYCEGqiGJgeEsorbGmYkuEF.png?ex=651b80aa&is=651a2f2a&hm=ec404489923e91fae0589af5e71e4d69071db4fe23714ce7fdb48b4478a79a70&
02:52:06 <CaptainTobin> anything can happen
02:52:09 <CaptainTobin> including THAT
03:38:53 <CaptainTobin> and redesigned https://thereisonlyxul.org/
03:40:02 <tomman> wonder how for much ICANN would approve a .xul TLD :D
03:40:24 <tomman> I mean, they let Gaggle have .zip
03:41:19 <CaptainTobin> tomman: i'd LOVE to have a xul tld
03:41:43 <CaptainTobin> first we have to storm verizon and take back the netscape trademark
03:42:18 <CaptainTobin> mozilla shit always looked nice in that blue bordering on purple
03:42:22 <CaptainTobin> tomman: imo
03:42:48 <CaptainTobin> glad my new BinOC Design is flexable enough to accomidate different styles.. tho i should change the body font as well
03:42:55 <CaptainTobin> .. it is getting late tho
03:44:16 <CaptainTobin> need to add SeaMonkey resources
03:44:21 <CaptainTobin> too
03:44:26 <CaptainTobin> but again getting late tomman
03:44:30 <CaptainTobin> i am a tired tobin
05:58:36 <Soliton2> While you are storming Verizon, fix their Internet.
06:44:47 <CaptainTobin> Soliton2: care to come with?
06:45:47 <Soliton2> I use Verizon and the 4G connection kind of sucks
06:46:02 <CaptainTobin> yeah i used to have vzw
06:46:04 <CaptainTobin> as well
06:46:23 <CaptainTobin> There added resource links galore
06:46:29 <CaptainTobin> to thereisonlyxul.org
06:46:55 <CaptainTobin> now almost completely bias free
10:59:41 <CaptainTobin> frg_Away: https://thereisonlyxul.org/
10:59:44 <CaptainTobin> :)
15:20:33 <CaptainTobin> Now I am awake
15:20:40 <CaptainTobin> hello #SeaMonkey good morning
15:36:02 <frg_Away> CaptainTobin greetings
15:36:32 <CaptainTobin> anything else you want on that menu on xulorg?
15:37:34 <CaptainTobin> I honestly can't seem to find a lot of sm resources that aren't spread between mdn the wiki and your site and of course my brain
15:38:05 <CaptainTobin> tho seems you guys been running a wordpress blog since 2005 lol
15:38:19 <CaptainTobin> somehow THAT escaped my notice tho i am sure I knew about it at some point
15:43:30 <CaptainTobin> hi therube
15:43:40 <therube> helo
15:45:52 <therube> netsh int ipv4 reset &/or the restart, got my ipv4 working again (though that has not helped my inability to update SM - so i'll try more...)
15:47:37 <tomman> https://tonsky.me/blog/unicode/ so yeah, Unicode hurts
15:47:55 <tomman> I hadn't noticed that Unicode went into the versionitis game too
15:55:36 <CaptainTobin> tomman: ASCII FORVER
15:56:13 <tomman> tell that to Japan and their abominable Shift-JIS encoding
15:56:33 <tomman> it's 2023 and they STILL develop new videogames which require locale trickery!
15:56:33 <CaptainTobin> japan is a special case
15:56:41 <CaptainTobin> it is the land of anime after all
15:57:02 <tomman> Well, my pet peeve are visual novels
15:57:08 <CaptainTobin> japan is an island on the ocean and has lots of TREEEEEEEEEES
15:57:37 <tomman> even when translation patches, AppLocale (or LC_ALL=ja_JP.UTF8 in Wine land) is a must for any serious lover of niche Japanese games
15:57:55 <tomman> But Unicode, instead of improving that, only focus on adding COLORED EMOJIS every year
15:58:16 <CaptainTobin> i am fine with utf8 as long as I don't have to deal with anything more than the ascii chars MOST of the time..
15:58:18 <tomman> (ironically the emoji was another Japanese invention that IMO should have never left Japanese cellphones)
15:58:23 <CaptainTobin> tomman:
15:59:23 <CaptainTobin> well emoji being imposed anime culture on the world would explain a lot tomman
15:59:25 <CaptainTobin> also
16:13:11 <therube> so, maybe, my entire issue with updating SM - on my computer, was that i was doing it in Sandboxie... actually, let me see... yes, seems Update does not work in Sandboxie.
16:14:32 <therube> I *installed* SM, 2.53.17 - outside of sandbox, & /that/ did update, successfully to 2.53.17.1, & as the sandboxed version still fails, kind of points to the sandbox being the issue all along.
16:15:06 <therube> prior to /this/ install, seems i had (actually) installed 2.53.6 back on 3-2-2021.
16:22:29 <therube> MapiProxy... just what does that do - in SM ?  seems to have to do with "linkage from excel / word" ?
16:22:42 <therube> Release includes it.  WG9s does not.
16:23:30 <therube> mozillazine had user with issue with opening from Excel, i think it was.  likely he's using WG9s builds?
16:24:57 <WG9s> therube: should an app running in a sandbox be allowed to update anything?
16:25:04 <therube> it was Outlook, not Excel
16:25:15 <therube> WG9s sure, why not (IMO)
16:25:27 <WG9s> Isn;t the point of sandboxing to prevent this sort of behavior?
16:27:38 <therube> no, at least not to me.  (for me) purpose is to run a program without (theoretically) affecting anything outside of the sandbox.
16:28:29 <WG9s> well yes tryijg to cahnge things in the sanbox should be a warning to dont intall this outside the sandbox
16:30:42 <therube> in this instance, & as i am typically not an "installer" type person, & outside of seemingly having actually installed SM back in 2021, & never "update". i download, unpack & overwrite.  so when testing if update was working, i had not wanted to do this anywhere except within sandbox.  so not until today, when nothing else seemed to get the update to work, did i actually test by actually...
16:30:44 <therube> ...installing, then actually updating - which worked.  (& then, heh, i downloaded WG9s of yesterday, unpacked & overwrote existing ;-) )
16:32:38 <WG9s> the`but I get it different uses for installing in a sndbox if you wantto make sure it does not do someting untoward then if it fails because of tying to brek out of sandboxshoould be fata or at least a critical wrning sying DO NOT INSTLL THIS APP OUSIDE THE SANDBOX
16:33:20 <WG9s> hs to do with what your reasoning was for sandboxing it in the first place!
16:34:27 <WG9s> should i guess be an option for the sandbox config and not a seamonkey issue
17:17:20 <CaptainTobin> frg_Away WG9s think we should just all drop mapi cause fuck mapi?
17:17:57 <CaptainTobin> cause I have considerd it for Interlink
17:42:37 <therube> SeaMonkey & Mac SONOMA - anyone know if SM will run on it?
17:42:39 <therube> http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=3113834
18:00:38 <CaptainTobin> thanks therube i should add the SM board on mozillazine as a link on thereisonlyxul under SM resources
18:01:14 <CaptainTobin> unless they are gonna kick you off too lol
18:01:16 <CaptainTobin> frg_Away:
18:02:49 <CaptainTobin> done
18:52:42 <jonadab> Stuff running inside a sandbox is definitely not supposed to be able to change anything _outside_ the sandbox, but whether it can update itself is an open question and depends on the situation.  A program running inside e.g. a chroot environment may or may not have permission to update itself, depending on how things inside the chroot are set up.  The exception would be things that run from a read-only
18:52:48 <jonadab> image (e.g., PXE-booting read-only from an image on a terminal server).
19:08:50 <frg_Away> > SeaMonkey & Mac SONOMA - anyone know if SM will run on it?
19:08:52 <frg_Away> I am not updating till 14.1. The reporter for Bug 1856217 seems to run it so it might be ok. But every .0 release lately was cr*p so I am not playing guinea pig.
19:09:28 <CaptainTobin> frg_Away: is the latest_branch changing in the next week or so?
19:10:23 <frg_Away> MapiProxy is used for the Explorer send to. The dll is registered if not already done so. It might clash with oder versions or TB installs.
19:11:09 <CaptainTobin> maybe rename the dll so it won't clash in next version frg_Away ?
19:11:34 <frg_Away> CaptainTobin Sould be 2.51.17.1 now unless I goofed. Waiting for IanN_Away to give me the green light for the 2.53.18b1 beta branch. Will not change till then so earliest in a week or two I think.
19:11:37 <CaptainTobin> or would that cause duplicate mailtos
19:12:25 <CaptainTobin> frg_Away: any other good community resource links to CURRENT sm stuff i can add to the SeaMonkey Resources dropdown
19:12:32 <CaptainTobin> for anyone happening by there
19:12:58 <frg_Away> CaptainTobin yeah but same for the accessible dll. No time for tinkering with this stuff :( Glad that it works as is.
19:13:10 <CaptainTobin> frg_Away: fair enough
19:13:23 <CaptainTobin> when it comes to mailnews core.. i TOTALLY understand
19:13:27 <CaptainTobin> also windows accessability
19:13:39 <CaptainTobin> small wonder any of it works
19:15:33 <frg_Away> CatainTobin Don't think so. Everything of interest should be on our support page too. Maybe you can do a patch so we can link yours there too.
19:16:17 <frg_Away> Patch against latest hg: https://hg.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/seamonkey-project-org/pushloghtml?startdate=2+weeks+ago&enddate=now.
19:17:10 <frg_Away> > small wonder any of it works
19:17:12 <frg_Away> I am not sure if accessability still works. We get no feedback. Still keeping and updating it for now.
19:18:17 <CaptainTobin> frg_Away: I actually haven't done more than hg clone in like 8 years can I give you a patch file in a bit
19:19:09 <frg_Away> CaptainTobin or a html file or whatever. Can do the patch and bug just usually not the next day :)
19:20:26 <CaptainTobin> interesting system
19:22:52 <frg_Away> Can take a git patch too. Both repos are on the same level. webpage is generated from the git repo but hg is much easier to work with patch wise so we still keep it in sync.
20:03:51 <frg_Away> tomman fwiw Windows 10 can still be activated with a Win 7 key. Might need to keep an older version around before updating to latest.
20:04:16 <tomman> frg_Away: apparently MS shut that down for good two weeks ago
20:04:32 <tomman> if you haven't had gotten your digital entitlement yet, now it's too late
20:04:56 <frg_Away> tomman they didn't tell me this 5 minutes ago. Activated Thinkpad X230 with a Win 7 pro key
20:05:01 <tomman> oooh~
20:05:07 <tomman> iiiiiiiinteresting
20:05:19 <tomman> did that laptop had Win10 previously installed?
20:05:42 <frg_Away> No. Not even an Slic 2.1 in the bios.
20:06:23 <frg_Away> Was a backup from my W530 and told me hardware changed.
20:06:53 <frg_Away> slmgr.vbs didn't like the key but able to enter it in settings.
20:10:50 <frg_Away> My guess is that they removed this option in one of the last local updates but kept the server code or all previous installations would fail after a reinstall.
20:11:02 <frg_Away> We will see.
20:13:38 <tomman> oh wow, Neweggg's website MASSIVELY slowdown SeaMonkey
20:14:22 <tomman> also, their product selection kinda sucks today (still doing research on that SSD, and don't want to give a single cent to scAmazon)
20:15:02 <tomman> so basically if I want a decent-ish cheap 1TB SSD, my options today are... MX500 or "suck it up and assume DRAMless doesn't suck that bad these days" Teamgroup Vulcan Z
20:15:15 <tomman> Samsung is out of the race: too expensive, and too unreliable lately
20:16:14 <ChipMaster> If you don't mind me jumping in: Latest on SM with NewEgg doesn't seem especially slow. But its overfat with media. My 300Mb/s  connection helps with that. It practically gagging on the video and other assets.
20:19:13 <frg_Away> tomman The Sandisk Ultra 3D or WD Blue (not the SA510) are ok too. But there are now crap variants of the Sandisk around. You need the -G25 or newer -G26.-G31 is crap accoording to a posting showing the interior. No drap and crap controller.
20:19:48 <tomman> WD is kinda pricey for my budget
20:19:58 <tomman> and isn't Sandisk having reliability problems lately too?
20:21:25 <frg_Away> Not much different from the Crucials here. The new Crucial MX500s are not as fast as the old ones too. They cut the dram cache and fewer flash chips so fewer channels. But not much real world difference it seems.
20:22:04 <tomman> It's SATA anyway, so I'm not expecting a Formula 1
20:22:22 <tomman> anything would be a upgrade from this old and tired 750GB Hitachi rust spinner
20:23:20 <tomman> oh, apparently there will be a sale by next week
20:23:35 <frg_Away> tomman the portable Sandisks and WDs seems to like loosing all data now and then. Class action lawsuit now underway. My 2TB and 4TB Sata drives are so far solid but only one new -G26.
20:23:35 <tomman> I still have time then, my friend visiting 'merica is not returning until December
20:28:14 <tomman> https://www.newegg.com/sandisk-1tb-ultra-3d/p/N82E16820173632 price is not bad, but why no reviews?
20:29:20 <frg_Away> https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/08/sandisk-extreme-ssds-are-worthless-multiple-lawsuits-against-wd-say/
20:31:46 <tomman> so basically it's only the externals being trash these days
20:32:01 <frg_Away> that is my understanding
20:32:53 <tomman> smells like some bad batches of USB-to-SATA bridges, or some botched power conditioning circuits (considering that USB power can be marginal for external drives at timeS)
20:35:34 <frg_Away> My money is on one of the support chips too but we will find out eventually.
20:35:58 <frg_Away> There are only older revieds for the Sata drives available in English: https://www.anandtech.com/show/11792/the-sandisk-ultra-3d-1tb-and-western-digital-wd-blue-3d-nand-1tb-ssd-review
20:36:26 <tomman> $52 for the 1TB model sounds fair, and right at the very end of my budget
20:37:34 <frg_Away> Spec (controller, flash and dram cache size) changed so not 100% comparable. The older MX500 was a bit faster than the WD but ran hotter. The new WD should be more or less on par with the current Crucial I suspect.
20:38:18 <frg_Away> Outside of benchmarks probably not much difference but you never know.
22:53:51 <CoordinatorTobin> frg_Away: this is the page you want me to edit... what XR link and also link to ...xulorg down at the bottom as containing relevant resources.. https://hg.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/seamonkey-project-org/file/tip/src/community.en.html
22:54:38 <CoordinatorTobin> but at the revision you linked
22:54:40 <CoordinatorTobin> correct?
22:55:19 <frg_Away> Yes this one. Tip should be the latest so fine. Can do the patch and duct tape. Just need text and link.