04:01:53 <CoordinatorTobin> there that's a little better https://thereisonlyxul.org/
13:16:54 <njsg> 0930|14:57:33 <+tomman> at least serve me a .sh! :D <-- next thing malware authors will be hitting "what do you mean .sh is not bash? What do you mean GNU and UNIX, isn't it all linux?"
13:18:11 <njsg> <+tomman> you can't activate W10/11 anymore with a legit W7/8 key starting last week <-- you mean windows 7 users don't need to find ways to blacklist gwx.exe anymore? :-)
13:19:48 <frg_Away> njsg this is long gone. You could install Windows 10 and enter a Win 7 or 8.1 key to activate. According to deskmoderer this still works for Windows 11 22H2. Getting a junky Thinkpad X230 this week and can try.
13:20:30 <frg_Away> ^deskmodder.de
13:33:34 <IanN> Status meeting in 30 minutes - https://wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2023-10-01
13:34:17 <njsg> frg_Away: ah, I was thinking of the other way around, the nagging to install 10 in 7
13:46:37 <WG9s> Here for the meeing
13:46:41 <WG9s> meeting
13:50:36 <njsg> hi .*
13:52:54 <CoordinatorTobin> I am here for the meeting as well seeing as I like SeaMonkey Status Meetings. Well I always have and even sometimes have something to add!
14:00:06 <IanN> Status meeting in 3 minutes - https://wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2023-10-01
14:02:56 * WG9s is waiting impatiently
14:03:16 * rsx11m yawns
14:03:19 <IanN> Status meeting time - https://wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2023-10-01
14:03:23 <IanN> hi rsx11m
14:03:35 <WG9s> hi rsx11m
14:03:45 <IanN> Who's taking minutes?
14:03:46 <frg> hi all rsx11m
14:03:50 <frg> me
14:03:53 <IanN> thanks
14:03:57 <rsx11m> hi everybody!
14:04:02 <IanN> Nominees for Friends of the Fish Tank?
14:04:26 <frg> I nominate Rainer Bielefeld for help aand website changes.
14:04:56 <njsg> seconded
14:05:14 <IanN> thirded
14:05:28 <IanN> Action Items
14:05:39 <tomman> hallo world~
14:05:48 <tomman> just in time for breakfast and meeting
14:06:00 <IanN> We have a meeting with MoCo on Tuesday, initially to discuss storage
14:06:41 <WG9s> I AM HIOING MOVING THE NIGHTLY ARCHIVES TO MY SERVER HELPS
14:06:55 <WG9s> hmm opps must have hit caps lock
14:06:58 <IanN> *covers ears*
14:07:19 * CoordinatorTobin takes WG9s megaphone away for the moment
14:07:38 <WG9s> sorry abut that
14:07:42 <CoordinatorTobin> :P
14:07:46 <IanN> thanks WG9s
14:07:59 <IanN> Status of the SeaMonkey Infrastructure
14:08:03 <WG9s> should reduce storage costs
14:08:44 <frg> Not much done here. Our Windows 2012 R2 server will be pactchable for another year in Azure.
14:09:19 <frg> But the new one is there. Just need some stuff  from the old and would like someone to mount the old e: disk to it.
14:10:30 <IanN> frg: hopefully that's something ewong can do
14:11:21 <IanN> Status of the SeaMonkey Source Tree
14:11:30 <frg> I can transfer it via rdp but this would take longer and is billable.
14:12:07 <frg> Need to do some pushed to central but behind one review so will wait till then.
14:12:15 <frg> Everything builds.
14:12:44 <frg> Didn't try clang 17 yet.
14:12:51 <WG9s> reminding me maybe we need to sthand up a tinderbox type server to show status of build
14:13:56 <WG9s> I could maybe do this on my server if I can find the code as that is where the builds are performed
14:14:21 <frg> WG9s would need someone to maintain it. I think we are "out of people" already so would't want to add something. As long as your builds build this is all I need :)
14:14:47 <WG9s> but that is all this needs to show is staus of my recent builds
14:15:20 <CoordinatorTobin> Getting tinderbox setup is an insane task.. creating a tinderbox-like setup tailored to your neeeds is a far more doable prospect
14:15:26 <IanN> something simple is better
14:15:59 <WG9s> well that is what i think is needed since it is all local on my server sould be simpler
14:16:17 <WG9s> need to show staus of recent builds on my server
14:16:54 <WG9s> and can re-instate what used to be a rule.  you can;t check in on red except for things that should fix the redness
14:17:13 <CoordinatorTobin> Well if someone can find the sources I am sure between the lot of us we can find out what voodoo mozilla using
14:17:24 <frg> 2.53.18b1pre currently has a broken delete bookmarks function. Will be fixed in the next build.
14:18:02 <CoordinatorTobin> I have developed a bit of a knack for that it seems.
14:18:45 <frg> I am out on this one in any case. Would add another swamp to my swamped one.
14:19:14 <WG9s> so maybe just something to show lat build status green or red.
14:19:23 <WG9s> i can probably do that
14:20:15 <CoordinatorTobin> mozbuild its self has diag capability and automation hell built in surely we can extract status collect it and put up a green cell or the traditional firegif if it succeeded or failed
14:21:31 <IanN> Release Train
14:22:07 <frg> 2.53.17.1 was done as a security release
14:22:28 <WG9s> but then some builds i don;t do if earlier ones v=failed.  like a major issue with linux-64 means i do not do macOS or linx-32 so do I mark them as failed or not sure.
14:22:44 <WG9s> same with sindows 32-bit if 75-bit fails
14:22:51 <WG9s> same with sindows 32-bit if 64-bit fails
14:22:58 <CoordinatorTobin> WG9s: status now magic later ;)
14:23:09 <frg> Last weeks vp8 encode fix should not concern us. Fixed in 2.53.18b1 pre.
14:23:37 <WG9s> so green if last build sorked red if it failed and grey if was not tried
14:23:44 <frg> If anyone thinks the encode bug would hit us too we can do a 2.53.17.2 but I just don't see how.
14:25:21 <CoordinatorTobin> may I ask why nss dbm is a hard requirement still?
14:25:35 <WG9s> my opinion is we whold try to get a 1.52.18 beta build out soonish and doing a 2.53.17.2 will just delay that
14:25:48 <WG9s> my opinion is we whold try to get a 2.53.18 beta build out soonish and doing a 2.53.17.2 will just delay that
14:26:26 <frg> Updated from 2.49.x and earlier. Needed for migration. I thought about removing it for some time now. Anyone not on 2.53 will not be on 2.53 ever I think.
14:26:49 <frg> ^Updates from 2.49 and earlier
14:27:40 <frg> Plan to do the nss swithc to esr115 and might remove it then I think.
14:28:03 <CoordinatorTobin> frg: you merely need to make sure your touchbase version that has dbm enabled but migration to sqlite just has a few version soak time.. then just make sure for profile reasons to keep that version as a touchbase for peole who don't update much
14:28:19 <CoordinatorTobin> that is how Pale Moon, Basilisk, and Interlink handled it
14:29:18 <CoordinatorTobin> if it IS migrated already
14:29:29 <CoordinatorTobin> just drop it and update nss as far as it will allow
14:29:39 <frg> Yes. Same for Firefox and TB. Watershed releases. Just with Apple breaking us with every new major release now you can't use older ones there. Not tested macOS 14 yet but might actually an exception from this rule.
14:30:13 <frg> But on the other hand earlier versions wouldnÄt run there either so...
14:30:29 <CoordinatorTobin> well mac you could just make a special release with older dbm enabled nss every year or two.. if you cared
14:30:57 <CoordinatorTobin> But that is silly forget i said it
14:31:28 <frg> I don't care about any one still using 2.49.x or earlier on a still supported OS. I am not happy about old extensions braking but most are fixable or fixed by someone.
14:31:30 <CoordinatorTobin> Does 56 have the updated gyp nss building?
14:31:37 <CoordinatorTobin> your 56
14:31:42 <WG9s> webestensions need a version number type thig  otherwise just make browser sniffing problem worse.  so need a webesxtensions version and way for thebrower either via user agent or an api to provide the webextensions version supported
14:31:51 <CoordinatorTobin> if not I can assist there.
14:31:54 <frg> yes. nss changes basically apply unchanged.
14:32:07 <WG9s> otherwise the entire webextensions idea is just garbage
14:32:50 <CoordinatorTobin> webex also need ids which mozilla retained
14:33:03 <CoordinatorTobin> sorry what point are we at IanN
14:33:23 <IanN> just about to move onto "Extensions Tracking"
14:33:29 <CoordinatorTobin> right
14:33:34 <WG9s> the idea was extensions that are browser agnostic but implemented in a way that makes them more browser specific
14:34:06 <frg> Nothing to add. 2.53.18b1 can be done any time. IanN just needs to be ok with crash reporting there I think.
14:34:10 <tomman> wasn't that the biggest flaw with WebExtensions since day one?
14:34:28 <tomman> trying to make them browser agnosting was doomed from the get go
14:34:47 <frg> WebExtensions is basically lego. You need to implement much of the logic in the core product imho.
14:35:10 <CoordinatorTobin> WebExtensions was Jetpack without all that Mozilla-ness
14:35:27 <CoordinatorTobin> let's be clear here
14:35:56 <WG9s> qwas not a bid idea just a really bad implementation
14:36:04 <WG9s> bsd idea
14:36:07 <njsg> To me, trying to make extensions browser-agnostic would sound like something that'd either be powerless or only work when all supported browsers aren't different enough to exist as different applications.
14:37:08 <WG9s> but really a lame idea also if the idea is websites will depend on this then should be built in to what is a browser
14:37:30 <IanN> Extensions Tracking
14:37:48 <WG9s> otherwise the magic needs ot be on the server side where it belong rather then depending on the borwser to be a specific one.
14:38:02 <frg> Well we won't change it. XUL is basically dead and we just keep it on life support as long as possible.
14:38:35 <WG9s> but this is not the correct forum for this discussion
14:39:29 <IanN> 2.Next, Feature List, Planning and Roundtable
14:40:20 <CoordinatorTobin> frg: XUL exists beyond sm's tree so declairations of death are a bit premature my friend
14:40:45 <frg> bau. Still trying to get SpiderMonkey to 62 in a different patch queue. Halfway there and then the rebase fun starts. Not sure fi I manage. But if I do then 63 next.
14:41:39 <WG9s> I think I have a working archive of my nightly builds that can be used in bisecting issues.
14:41:41 <frg> Well it is not dead in our tree too and I invst much of my free time to keep it alive but... :)
14:42:06 <frg> Onlyx 400 patches out for 800 left :D
14:42:25 <tomman> The most wanted JavaScript shiny nowadays is dynamic imports, it's the new "emoji regex" site-breaking feature
14:42:29 <CoordinatorTobin> i resist you loosing livemarks
14:42:39 <CoordinatorTobin> and rss features
14:42:49 <tomman> I've found a couple sites wanting ReadableStreams, but those do work if I enable the respective prefs on about:config
14:42:49 <frg> I think they are still there.
14:42:59 <WG9s> I have also posted the SDK tar files I use for my builds
14:43:12 <WG9s> for those trying to do macOS cross compiles
14:43:52 <frg> tomman I only do this to apply stuff cleaner. First patches for bigint in in my queue and dymanic imports are in 63.
14:44:12 <tomman> forgot which site wanted BigInts
14:44:19 <tomman> ...wasn't it Discourse?
14:44:38 <tomman> ah no, DIscourse actively sabotages browsers that do not fit Jeff's Vision™
14:44:46 <frg> Some. My stupid fritz box now too.
14:46:04 <tomman> wonder if a UA override would be enough for pleasing Discourse, or if there is something else
14:46:06 <tomman> so many websites using that horrible bloaty broken piece of junk for message boards
14:46:12 <tomman> ...including Mozilla :/
14:47:02 <IanN> AOB
14:47:12 <frg> bau here too
14:47:32 <njsg> tomman: I've just been using a quick-and-dirty bookmarklet to reset the overflow:hiddens of discourse
14:47:59 <tomman> njsg: it's not just that - Discourse also disable all links, refuses loading the stylesheets, among other more subtle sabotages
14:48:25 <tomman> and of course plastering the "Unfortunately your browser is more than 2 weeks old and therefore doesn't fit The Vision™"
14:48:28 <IanN> next meeting is in 3 weeks time, rsx11m is day light saving changes happening before then?
14:48:53 <njsg> tomman: uh, I haven't seen link breakage yet, that said I don't browse discourse sites that often
14:48:56 <CoordinatorTobin> I have moved the Seamonkey 2.53 cross-reference to the project-agnostic xr.thereisonlyxul.org
14:49:03 <frg> Well I just removed Edge and now use Vivaldi for problematic sites. Almost suite like and I wonder if they copied some of the old Netscape menu layout.
14:49:24 <njsg> IanN: wasn't US after EU at this time of the year?
14:49:25 <tomman> the only Chromed thing in this house are the replacement legs on my chair~
14:49:28 <rsx11m> IanN: I don't think so, Europe should be first getting off DST on October 29th
14:49:37 <CoordinatorTobin> Historical and newer sources will follow.. again .. of course
14:49:41 <njsg> so possibly the next one is the last one with both summer times
14:49:48 <IanN> rsx11m: good, so we're fine for the next meeting :)
14:50:07 <frg> October 29th it seems.
14:50:09 <IanN> okay thanks for your time today, next meeting in 3 weeks, same bat channel, same bat time
14:50:27 <frg> cu
14:50:35 <rsx11m> US should switch November 4th, next meeting thereafter on the 12th
14:50:45 <frg_Away> The meeting notes will probably late again :)
14:50:46 <CoordinatorTobin> kinda got distracted and almost forgot to mention the xr stuff which is the legit reason I am here beyond normal Tobin reasons of course
14:50:47 <njsg> the meeting after the next one either gets both on winter time, or gets the dreaded DST mix™
14:51:02 <rsx11m> so, we are actually switching both sides for the same meeting, which simplifies things ;-)
14:51:33 <njsg> - ah, then both on winter
14:51:36 <tomman> Or just do it the Venezuelan Way: throw it at xx:30 :D
14:51:37 <IanN> rsx11m: always good :)
14:51:42 <WG9s> IanN: thanks for holding the meeting and hope I was not too obnoxious
14:51:46 <CoordinatorTobin> so we are meeting again in the winter right lol
14:52:08 <njsg> CoordinatorTobin: well, first still in summer :-)
14:52:13 <CoordinatorTobin> WG9s: when I am here.. don't worry so much :P
14:52:33 <CoordinatorTobin> not about that lol
14:52:33 <IanN> WG9s: never
14:52:37 <rsx11m> njsg: technically it's fall here, I guess :-p
14:52:56 <CoordinatorTobin> and technically frg is right XUL is dead but I ain't gonna let that stand either
14:52:59 <CoordinatorTobin> rsx11m:
14:53:12 <frg_Away> For DST I would love to do it the Egyptian way: Bury the inventors :)
14:53:29 <CoordinatorTobin> wait.. i been.. inventing shit
14:53:46 <CoordinatorTobin> frg_Away: that doesn't work for me can I be exempt cause I am not actually on the council?
14:53:48 <rsx11m> ok, I'm falling asleep again
14:53:53 <rsx11m> see you next time
14:53:59 <njsg> tomman: can you link me an example of discourse mangling links?
14:54:26 <tomman> njsg: let me find a Discourse board...
14:54:27 <njsg> it's possible it's some site-specific behaviour or a newer "improvement"™
14:54:38 <frg_Away> CoordinatorTobin. I doubt you invented the DST change so you should be ok.
14:56:02 <njsg> links here work for me: https://discourse.llvm.org/t/16-0-6-release/71344
14:56:21 <CoordinatorTobin> HEY all I need is time travel and I would have invented anything I want
14:56:26 <CoordinatorTobin> frg_Away:
14:56:49 <tomman> njsg: oh, looks like they stopped disabling links indeed
14:57:10 <tomman> now it's just disabling most of the stylesheet and the overflow:hidden shenanigans
14:57:12 <njsg> I guess I didn't end up at discourse pages often enough to notice links not working
14:57:43 <tomman> but few months ago I found plenty of Discourse boards that would tie all <A> tags to a bogus onclick handler that would effectively disable them
14:57:52 <frg_Away> CoordinatorTobin. Somewhere in the Mulitiverse you did.
14:58:14 <tomman> https://meta.discourse.org/t/welcome-to-meta-discourse-org/1 the official instance no longer does that, interesting
14:58:22 <tomman> also the Mozilla Discourse comes up fine
14:58:48 <tomman> so I guess not all instances engage in extending Jeff's Vision™
14:59:19 <CoordinatorTobin> Aren't there enough subtly different incarnations of me as there is.. do you reallllly think the multiverse needs to be involved frg_Away?
14:59:22 <njsg> tomman: add this as a bookmarklet: javascript:(void(function(){s=document.createElement("style");st=document.createTextNode("html,*{overflow:unset!important;}");s.appendChild(st);document.head.appendChild(s);document.body.appendChild(s);}()))
14:59:54 <njsg> (why am I adding it to head and body? good question. I did say this was quick-and-dirty!)
15:45:28 <tomman_> huh, a crash...
17:15:36 <mahdi-libera> Hi there, I noticed only now libera killed matrix bridge ... and curios whether you discussed bridging it differently?
17:16:07 <frg_Away> No plans and no knowledge/manpower.
17:16:30 <mahdi-libera> I e.g. run our OSM local chapter and many other rooms via https://github.com/42wim/matterbridge/ and would be pretty easy for me link the rooms
17:16:45 <mahdi-libera> it works via bot, so it's not direct like before, messages are prefixed
17:17:11 <mahdi-libera> here's image how it looks from matrix side for our osm room - https://openstreetmap.cz/git/mahdi1234/documents/src/branch/master/matterbridge/matterbridge.md
17:18:40 <mahdi-libera> it doesn't require any special rights as bot is normal user, so if you'd be interested I can do it
17:20:26 <frg_Away> Thanks. I am not even on matrix so something IanN_Away would need to chime in.
17:26:34 <ChipMaster> If anyone wants to know I downloaded SeaMonkey for amd64 Linux a few days ago. Both the included ChatZilla and Lightning plugins had to be disabled and then re-enabled before they would operate. And in both cases the "preferences" button in the add-on manager did nothing.
17:39:44 <njsg> ChipMaster: new profile or did you have an old profile around?
17:40:25 <njsg> ChipMaster: did you restart seamonkey between tries? Is this something you can still reproduce with a separate profile or install?
17:40:41 <IanN_Away> ChipMaster: what distro?
17:40:58 <ChipMaster> I'm running Devuan 5 (Deb12).
17:41:25 <ChipMaster> Seamonkey had been restarted several times.
17:42:24 <ChipMaster> Neither plugin showed. I got on here with Pidgin but then it occurred to me to try to disable/enable them and here I am in ChatZilla.
17:43:01 <ChipMaster> ChatZilla was not in the status bar nor window menu and did not respond to the CLI switch.
17:43:07 <njsg> did they show as *enabled* in the add-on manager?
17:43:30 <ChipMaster> Yes. And punching the preferences button did nothing.
17:43:47 <njsg> yeah, so far it's looking like the extension parts that would add these things did not get to run / be processed
17:43:59 <ChipMaster> Maybe I should say "poking" or "clicking" punching may give the wrong idea. :))
17:44:37 <frg_Away> Some distros also bundle it separately and install it in a distro extension directory. This will fail then too.
17:44:38 <njsg> now if the extension was enabled, this would mean something went wrong in initalization? or is there some other way an extension can end up enabled without working?
17:45:08 <ChipMaster> A note about my install technique: I un-tar'd to /opt, chown'd root:root the content and I run as a regular user.
17:45:49 <ChipMaster> frg_Away: I downloaded it from the site. I'm not using a distro bundle.
17:46:22 <njsg> so you downloaded from the project website; Did you still have any other seamonkey installed (via package manager or something), or have you used seamonkey before on that system?
17:46:49 <ChipMaster> No. Fresh install. Brand new laptop!
17:47:12 <frg_Away> ChipMaster yeah just be sure that you remove the old opt SeaMonkey directory before unpacking and make sure no old cZ only distro package is installed somewhere else.
17:48:15 <ChipMaster> And, yes, I downloaded it from the project website.
17:48:37 <frg_Away> If you just unpack into opt without nuking the old one first the old distribution copy might still be there in distribution/extensions
17:49:48 <ChipMaster> frg_Away: as stated there IS no "old one". Completely virgin machine.
17:50:16 <IanN_Away> ChipMaster: if you start with a new profile, does the same happen again?
17:50:49 <ChipMaster> Let me sign off and give it a whirl...
17:50:54 <frg_Away> In one of my test vms I managed to run SeaMonkey as root with the user profile. It did not go well either and I ended up with exactly the same error message.
17:51:20 <ChipMaster> It was never run as root.
17:51:43 <njsg> ChipMaster: brand new laptop, OS install from scratch, no migration or copy from another machine?
17:51:58 <njsg> (if so at least this should simplify things a lot for testing)
17:52:37 <frg_Away> Yes I never knew what exactly happend there too but the profile was toast.
17:53:12 <ChipMaster> Alright give me a moment and I'll be back...
17:53:26 <njsg> do you know if your distribution/system has some sort of additional "protection" layer like apparmor, selinux, ...?
17:53:55 <ChipMaster> I disabled those.
17:54:10 <ChipMaster> BRB
18:03:29 <guest__> am I the only one having issues with latest SM and live.com ? even with latest WG9s build for 64-bit Windows and empty profile
18:20:03 <ChipMaster> OK guys. I could not dupe but I'm pretty sure I know why I had the problem. I originally test drove SeaMonkey with an install in my home folder. After I saw enough good I installed it system-wide as previously described. I did not delete my profile directory between moves. This probably had it _looking for the plugins in all the wrong places_.
18:22:09 <ChipMaster> Sorry. My blunder. Thanks for attempting to help.
18:22:57 <ChipMaster> But I still have font/scrollbar questions if anyone has answers. Is it possible to post pictures here? This is my first time taking more than a casual glance at IRC.
18:23:37 <ChipMaster> FYI: I AM using ChatZilla. ;-)
18:26:30 <steevjobz> you can upload to a free service like https://postimages.org/ and paste the link in here.
18:27:10 <frg_Away> I usually use ibb.co
18:31:28 <njsg> ChipMaster: yeah, sharing images in IRC is usually done by sharing an address to the image over http[s] ^
18:32:15 <ChipMaster> https://yeolpishack.net/media/ChipMaster/shot_01-10-23_103523.png
18:32:16 <njsg> ChipMaster: what UI toolkit is used by the other applications you use that look different from SeaMonkey? What Gtk+ theme have you selected or installed? Or is it the default one for the distro?
18:32:44 <ChipMaster> That illustrates the difference between SeaMonkey's UI and another GTK2 based app.
18:32:55 <njsg> SeaMonkey is GTK+3
18:33:17 <ChipMaster> That explains the broken scroll bars.
18:33:55 <ChipMaster> But I read somewhere I could create a CSS file to override ride the font size. That's my main desire. I want some screen space back.
18:34:54 <njsg> well, within gtk+3 you can create CSS files, yes, that's how themes apparently work in GTK+3. Now what you write on the file might change between minor versions of GTK+3...
18:34:55 <frg_Away> ChipMaster for css stuff best to ask in mozillaZine. Frank Lion might be able to help.
18:35:36 <ChipMaster> Unfortunately my attempt with "userChrome.css" failed. Oh! That's right. I saw the example file in the seamonkey install directory.
18:35:37 <njsg> ChipMaster: At least switching to modern will probably give you something more... scrollbarish? But modern really isn't for integration with the system UI look
18:37:03 <ChipMaster> Nothing "integrates" with my "system ui" look. And frankly I'm a "swiss army knife" kind of guy. I care about function over appearance everytime.
18:37:53 <ChipMaster> So how does one switch to "modern"?
18:38:11 <njsg> ChipMaster: View->Apply Theme->SeaMonkey Modern
18:40:49 <ChipMaster> Wow! That's nice!
18:41:21 <ChipMaster> Still lost the page up/down features. But I've never figured out how to get those back in any GTK3 scenario.
18:41:48 <njsg> what were these features?
18:42:17 <frg_Away> I have a
18:42:19 <frg_Away>   -GtkScrollbar-has-backward-stepper: 1;
18:42:20 <frg_Away>   -GtkScrollbar-has-forward-stepper: 1;
18:42:22 <frg_Away> in my .config/gtk-3.0 gtk.css
18:42:28 <frg_Away> https://askubuntu.com/questions/200938/question-about-gtkscrollbar-class-in-custom-themes
18:42:33 <ChipMaster> This is hilarious because "modern" is the default look: style-free ... bland. No scroll buttons. And yet modern gives style and buttons!
18:42:43 <frg_Away> But CentOS 7 so might not work any longer.
18:43:19 <ChipMaster> fng_Away: me too! That gives the buttons back.
18:43:27 <njsg> frg_Away: I was wondering why couldn't I find font settings for gtk+3 here. Forgot to check ~/.config...
18:44:02 <njsg> ChipMaster: but the default SeaMonkey theme has colored icons, isn't the "modern" approach shades of gray?
18:44:32 <ChipMaster> njsg: Scroll bars since their inception had the ability to page up/down by clicking the "tray" above and below the "htumb", just like hitting [PG UP] [PG DN]
18:45:39 <njsg> you mean the space between the up/down arrow button and the draggable location indicator? (sorry, I forgot the names for these components)
18:45:42 <ChipMaster> njsg: yes the icons are shades mostly shades of gray with minimal color highlights.
18:46:09 <njsg> ChipMaster: what does it do, scroll to a location?
18:46:19 <frg_Away> Well it is a bit blueish not 100% gray
18:46:44 <ChipMaster> yes, exactly. The GTK3 version seems to have done away with that feature preferring exact positioning, which could already be had by dragging the "thumb".
18:46:45 <njsg> I've got this in my .config/gtk-3.0/settings.ini:
18:46:50 <njsg> gtk-primary-button-warps-slider = false
18:47:21 <njsg> preceded by this comment: # Click on scrollbar, false = move one screenful up/down, true = move to the point clicked.
18:47:40 <ChipMaster> Oh! That's promising!
18:50:04 <ChipMaster> what group is that in/
18:50:06 <ChipMaster> ?
18:50:18 <njsg> oh, [Settings]
18:50:21 <njsg> missed that.
18:50:27 <ChipMaster> THX
18:51:36 <njsg> where you can also add stuff like 'gtk-font-name = Thefontname 14'
18:52:02 <njsg> (I have the size there, no idea if that really is working or if I just left it there...)
18:52:11 <ChipMaster> Thanks! I'll track down a reference on that file.
18:52:46 <njsg> I'm trying to figure out where did I get information on the slider setting from
18:54:46 <njsg> ChipMaster: ah, I got it probably from what is now https://docs.gtk.org/gtk3/class.Settings.html
18:55:12 <ChipMaster> THX!
18:55:13 <njsg> had some trouble tracking it down because the address I have for that is https://developer.gnome.org/gtk3/stable/GtkSettings.html which must have been changed at some point and the redirect is pointing at the wrong place
18:55:51 <njsg> hopefully the content is equivalent, but here's the archived version http://web.archive.org/web/20190927161036/https://developer.gnome.org/gtk3/stable/GtkSettings.html
18:57:07 <njsg> that said, there might have been changes, given that that's from 2019
18:57:48 <frg_Away> gtk 4 default style is probably a white screen :)
18:58:04 <njsg> I've already had enough with gtk+3's theming
18:58:39 <njsg> breaking changes within gtk+3... I think at least some themes can't have a single version, they have to have several versions, for different minor versions of gtk+3
18:59:09 <njsg> At least Qt has qt5ct...
19:00:23 <ChipMaster> Whoops! Gotta watch that ^Q now that all these windows are the same app, as opposed to the Thunderbird, FireFox, Pidgin trio.
19:00:51 <ChipMaster> Thanks guys for the info. I actually do have to run now anyways.
19:21:27 <CaptainTobin> frg_Away: I am gonna bring qt back to what I am now calling the Universal XUL Platform (yes I know I will get shit for it idc) so once I have that working I am sure you can add it to your widget code or i can see if i can do it.. but if you want qt instead as a real option.. I and Son_Goku are your best bet
19:21:55 <CaptainTobin> widget wise we should be fairly close still right frg_Away
19:23:19 <CaptainTobin> it was only re-removed in 49 and last successfully compiled a few versions before that according to details of the last time it was removed
21:22:40 <frg_Away> CaptainTobin we are basically at 60 with widget now. Some later stuff in too.
21:34:05 <Tobin> frg_Away: well luckily widget code is self contained so if i did help bring qt to you it SHOULDN'T interfear much more than configure and build files not source files
21:34:13 <Tobin> i been researching this for a while now
21:34:26 <Tobin> if i can do it is another question but it SHOULD be str8 forward
21:34:41 <Tobin> this still is largely using its xpfe design after all
22:29:24 <frg_Away> Yes it is a bit like SpiderMonkey or I would probably jump out of a window and not even trying to update any longer :)
22:34:30 <CaptainTobin> spidermonkey won't become a horriable bitch until about 78 i guess
22:34:37 <CaptainTobin> but 68 will start adding difficulties
22:34:54 <CaptainTobin> when i last looked into it for str8 uplift possibilities
22:36:03 <CaptainTobin> I know when I get to the xpfe 1.8.1 codebase I will be able to almost instantly upgrade the JS engine to at LEAST 1.9.1
22:36:11 <CaptainTobin> if not much further
22:36:46 <CaptainTobin> and IF we were on str8 52 i am sure I could take the js engine almost str8 to 60 save for dom patches
22:36:53 <CaptainTobin> and xpc
22:38:59 <CaptainTobin> maybe later next year i can do an exaustive summery of all the changes made to UXP since 2018 and maybe we can figure out some way to make after-rewind-patching is done get you some enhancements ontop of what you are doing for mozilla maybe as a start in transitioning SeaMonkey to independant non-mozinfra development or infra designed to do the rewind strat
23:06:01 <frg_Away> CaptainTobin Going from 56 to 61 was a treat. Problem is xpconnect mostly. I left out some stuff. Now on the compartment to realm changes in 62 and hope that the add-on id removals I didn't take don't break this.