07:55:15 <IsambardPrince> I wonder what the plans are for SeaMonkey and GTK 4. *laughs*
07:56:00 <IsambardPrince> The GNOME People are already starting to brick GTK3.
07:56:03 <IsambardPrince> That was fast.
07:56:21 <frg_Away> Well first Wayland ... urgkkkk.... *p*ke.
07:56:55 <IsambardPrince> They dumped WebkitGTK4, which is totally not confusingly the version for GTK3.
07:58:19 <IsambardPrince> I love how they lob a new version out then immediately sabotage anyone using the last one.
07:58:42 <IsambardPrince> If you are a GTK3 app and you need Webkit, and were using it, it no longer will work on Fedora.
07:59:55 <IsambardPrince> How extensively does SeaMonkey actually use GTK?
08:00:13 <njsg> (Has there been any new interest in X11? As in, a group of people who want to see it evolve as X11, instead of envisioning a migration to Wayland?)
08:00:34 <IsambardPrince> We did a few posts on this at Techrights.
08:00:51 <njsg> IsambardPrince: eh... you don't need GTK4 for that. GTK3 has been a nightmare of sorts. changes between minor versions mean you need different themes for different minor versions of GTK3
08:00:52 <IsambardPrince> Wayland is an IBM thing. They can only spread it with dirty tricks and FUD.
08:01:16 <IsambardPrince> A lot of applications don't care because they'd have to be torn apart and rewritten to be less than they are now.
08:02:16 <njsg> I think I recall having read the description of Xorg being "on life support". Now no matter whether you like Wayland or not, that's a problem right there, if there isn't a project with people actively interested in it beyond "life support", there's not much of a way for it to continue existing further than the short term
08:02:32 <IsambardPrince> The X mailing list is active.
08:02:51 <IsambardPrince> I don't know how much more activity you need on something that's almost 40 and feature complete.
08:02:59 <IsambardPrince> Even 90s gpu drivers get updates.
08:03:21 <IsambardPrince> X is beyond feature complete.
08:03:23 <njsg> There are features I want in a windowing system, and last I checked there had been a path to implement some of them in wayland, I don't recall if that has been implemented or not. But they were not present from the beginning, I think.
08:03:36 <IsambardPrince> It has so many features most of them don't even get used anymore.
08:04:17 <njsg> IsambardPrince: oh, did Xorg fix the issue with siliconmotion(?) GPUs where it couldn't start a full-screen, native screen size screen on the same hardware where Xfree86 could? :-P
08:04:42 <IsambardPrince> No idea.
08:05:02 <IsambardPrince> Did XFree86 ever release a written driver that distros were tossing around for two years for my ATI card?
08:05:06 <IsambardPrince> :)
08:05:22 <njsg> No idea :-)
08:05:31 <IsambardPrince> XFree86 was horrid.
08:06:09 <IsambardPrince> The only reason I could even startx was because of Mandrake Linux shipping a driver that implemented 2d support, enough to grab the proprietary driver.
08:33:47 <IsambardPrince> There are definitely less names on the mailing list though.
08:34:06 <IsambardPrince> Alan Coopersmith has been pushing a lot of stuff. I need to look at git to see who wrote it.
08:34:11 <IsambardPrince> He may just be pushing a lot of that as release manager.
08:36:54 <IsambardPrince> Yeah, most of the scroll is XWayland.
08:37:06 <IsambardPrince> They're doing more work to not have X11 than they were to keep X11.
08:41:58 <IsambardPrince> Well, it's making sense that they're telling people to quit working on other desktop stuff and spend more time on Wayland/XWayland.
08:42:11 <IsambardPrince> I think they want to wrap this up after 15 years of still not working.