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IsambardPrince
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tomman
cool, so will Mozilla be buying new computers for the hundred millions still stuck at 7 because their hardware can't genuinely run anything later?
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tomman
(and nope, "move to Linux" is not always the answer, especially for the tech-illiterate often behind those old machines)
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tomman
But then, the entire IT industry has never cared, so meh
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tomman
"If you’re on an unsupported version of Windows, you’re in even more danger than a supported version of Windows, which itself is still quite susceptible to malware infestations."
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tomman
time to move to Windows Me, since today's malware only works on modern Windows versions :D
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tomman
"It’s very sad that Mozilla doesn’t even mention Linux, which will almost certainly be acceptably fast, maybe even faster than your unsupported version of Windows."
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tomman
NO IT'S NOT!
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tomman
modern Linux distros simply run awful on those ancient machines
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tomman
just like modern Windows versions
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tomman
> Many computers can run for more than a decade and a half with Linux and still browse the Web with the latest software. Maybe not so pleasant at the end, but it can be done.
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tomman
oh, he does recognize that
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IsambardPrince
[Wednesday 9:44:08pm] tomman (and nope, "move to Linux" is not always the answer, especially for the tech-illiterate often behind those old machines)
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IsambardPrince
Goodwill sells old computers that can't run Windows anymore for like $20 and they run Linux Mint fine.
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IsambardPrince
They preload them with Linux because they don't want to add $50 to the machine for a Windows Refurbishment license.
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IsambardPrince
Which would basically make it a $70 old laptop when it was only $20 for the hardware.
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tomman
noone sells computers for $20 in Venezuela, tho... and old Core 2 Duo boxes (still widely in use here) have lousy performance with modern Linux DEs
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tomman
and I say this a a full-time Debian user on hardware between 2001 and 2012
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IsambardPrince
For $20 even if you have to keep it plugged into the wall it's a good deal.
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IsambardPrince
And quite often you can find a replacement battery for not that much money.
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tomman
software bloat is a big problem all across the industry, Linux included
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IsambardPrince
Core 2 Duo can probably handle Wayland if you use that Sway thing or whatever it's called.
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tomman
MATE went from being snappy on old Pentium 4 laptops in Debian 8 to... being unusable on Debian 9 :/
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IsambardPrince
But at that point you're talking hardcore geek stuff again.
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IsambardPrince
[Wednesday 9:52:56pm] tomman MATE went from being snappy on old Pentium 4 laptops in Debian 8 to... being unusable on Debian 9 😟
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IsambardPrince
GTK 3 bloat?
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tomman
THAT'S MY POINT!
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IsambardPrince
They're going to have to swallow GTK 4 at some point.
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IsambardPrince
Have fun with that.
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IsambardPrince
Not as bad as Windows VISTA 11 though.
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IsambardPrince
But still, I mean, why add bloat for another layer of paint and wizmos.
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tomman
I just moved my Inspiron 6400 (Core 2 Duo T7200) to Trinity, but then I don't expect my auntie to use Trinity
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tomman
also, I'm afraid I'll be unable to afford a new PC 'till the day I die, it seems
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IsambardPrince
I use GNOME but my OLDEST computer is a Core i7-6560U.
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tomman
my NEWEST machine is a i5-2450M
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IsambardPrince
And that's STILL massive overkill for GNOME 43.
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tomman
bought in 2012
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tomman
back when hyperinflation wasn't a thing yet
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tomman
here
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IsambardPrince
The US has been experiencing "higher than usual inflation" but it's not has bad as Venezuela by a long shot.
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tomman
of course Silly Valley and the folks at Redmond have zero empathy towards those living in... parts away from California/Seattle
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IsambardPrince
I think you'd have to get into the triple digits for a while.
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IsambardPrince
People are saying hyperinflation here because it's usually about 2-3% and has been running 6-7%.
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tomman
our central bank says "hold my beer"
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IsambardPrince
It's become "pesky" by the standards of a normal country.
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tomman
we just went from FIVE digits hyperinflation
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tomman
and this year we're going to close with near-triple digits again
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IsambardPrince
Yeah, and I mean, it's a really stupid gripe in the US for many people.
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IsambardPrince
If you have savings, park them in a CD or something and you undo like 95% of the accumulating effects of inflation with bank interest right now.
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IsambardPrince
That way you don't have "rotting cash".
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tomman
Anyway, my point is that we should ban the Valley from using new tech
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tomman
maybe then they will learn to optimize
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tomman
a Core 2 Duo has waaaaaaaaaaaay more power than a Cray-1
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IsambardPrince
I don't even like software bloat, personally.
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tomman
a 386SX-40 running Windows 95 on 6MB RAM was just starved, but still responsive
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IsambardPrince
If there's jank on a Core i7 12th generation in Windows 11 (and there is) and that's the latest processor, you have a very bad problem with Windows.
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tomman
a Ivy Bridge running Windows 10 on spinny rust and 4GB RAM is just pathetic in comparison
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IsambardPrince
Because you take a 7 year old laptop and put Linux on it and there's no observable jank.
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IsambardPrince
But you take the newest most expensive PC laptop and Windows 11 and there's jank?
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tomman
well, maybe if you're using Ryzen's fTPM RNG :P
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IsambardPrince
There's too many chokepoints in Windows where it doesn't matter what hardware you throw at it. It's so hideously fat and impossible to optimize that the hardware doesn't even always matter.
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tomman
maybe MS should pull a Intel and revive the XP kernel
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tomman
I mean, Intel had to do exactly THAT (go back to P6 to make the highly successful Core line, instead of continuing with the trainwreck of Netburst which was supposedly "the future")
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IsambardPrince
Microsoft seemed to have some sort of weak tea variant of compressed RAM in Windows.
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IsambardPrince
It seemed in Windows 10 to be more comparable to ZSwap than ZRam on Linux.
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IsambardPrince
It used a really crappy and slow compression scheme on Windows that took too many CPU cycles.
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IsambardPrince
I don't think they use ZStandard compression anywhere. It's hard to beat the performance of ZStd level 1.
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IsambardPrince
Not the absolute best compression, but that's not really what your goal should be with compressed RAM. If you're going to take several times the CPU cycles to get 2-3% more compression, you don't want to do that.
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IsambardPrince
tomman I mean, Intel had to do exactly THAT (go back to P6 to make the highly successful Core line, instead of continuing with the trainwreck of Netburst which was supposedly "the future")
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IsambardPrince
Yes, but Intel could afford a wrong turn like that at the time.
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IsambardPrince
Bailout Biden isn't always going to be there for them.
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IsambardPrince
He wrecked their China business and AMD's too, and China laughed and just started using more ARM and MIPS.
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IsambardPrince
Tor Browser finally got the monthly Mozilla Security rollup.
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IsambardPrince
This month was a bad one.
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therube
i've not looked to see if we've "released" yet, but just noting that a Check for Updates... is not seeing .17, currently.
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therube
I do see .17 release notes are online
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frg_Away
therube Not sure if ewong has activated updates yet.
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ewong
No, I haven't activated the updates.. sorry..