00:03:26 <MattATobin> well my theory is MAYBE i could build a truely alt-mozilla platform but i dunno if WEB will be at all important say at the es6/html5 and newer level
00:03:43 <MattATobin> strip out dead shit
00:03:43 <MattATobin> keep good shit
00:03:48 <MattATobin> update libs update deps
00:03:58 <MattATobin> and stay out of the web's way for it
00:05:03 <MattATobin> indeed i'd likely set up an http whitelist so i could still aus and such but not actually navigate anywhere on http other than that so things like aus could still happen
00:06:12 <MattATobin> because and this is entirely consistant with all i have seen and experienced.. Mozilla made too many mistakes in the 2009-2013 period to really fix even back at the liberation or tycho codebase .. 24 and 38 respectively
00:06:24 <MattATobin> let alone 45 52 or evo56
00:06:34 <MattATobin> but please prove me wrong
00:06:37 <MattATobin> in fact I demand it frg
00:07:18 <MattATobin> someone for once please just prove me wrong about something GOOD
00:16:16 <tomman> I'm watching some old Flash animations now
00:16:28 <tomman> and... there was something good and a complete waste about the death of Flash
00:16:36 <tomman> it would have made a fine codec to deliver animation
00:16:46 <tomman> no need to make ~1GB 1080p files
00:17:21 <tomman> just deliver a smallish .SWF, there you have - unlimited HD that nicely scales from 240p dumbphone junk to 16K
00:17:41 <tomman> it was a terrible format for anything else
00:18:39 <tomman> (ironically it was used in its final years as a vehicle to deliver... ordinary pre-encoded video, including animations!)
00:20:14 <MattATobin> like how shockwave was split into shockwave and shockwave flash the flash should have been split into flash director and flash developer
00:20:36 <MattATobin> one for animation and 2000s flash shit the other to be basically silverlight
00:21:23 <frg_Away> well I am a Flash hater since my OS/2 days where this was complete crap so no dice from me. It was a pleasure for me to rip out this code.
03:27:53 <tomman> apparently whatever Ruffle build they're using at Danbooru now requires this crap: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/ReadableStream
03:27:58 <tomman> (FF65+)
03:28:03 <tomman> sample post: https://danbooru.donmai.us/posts/82943
03:28:06 <tomman> > Serious error loading Ruffle: ReferenceError: ReadableStream is not defined
05:42:00 <MattATobin> oh seamonkey's 1.8 is more advanced
05:42:14 <MattATobin> security patches mostly but also a lot of xpfe work
05:42:50 <MattATobin> i wonder if there is a copy of that repo history for seamonkey's 1.8 branch
09:33:50 <njsg> 0706|01:14:06 <+tomman> it would have made a fine codec to deliver animation <-- I sometimes feel that the non-video aspect of flash is (was?) overlooked
09:34:35 <njsg> now "animations" being what, animated video that's made using flash, but instead of being served into video is the actual flash animation behind it?
09:36:30 <njsg> it sometimes felt that chat about alternative ways to handle flash or ways to replace flash would focus too much on video delivery, while flash had been widely used for other things, like navigation menus and non-video (text, images) content delivery. Oh, and games.
14:46:52 <therube> tomman: http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&p=14958206, also, https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=29990
15:30:27 <MattATobin> yeah after getting 1.8 building again first order of business is to get the build system back up to at least 1.9.2 cause this is more primitive than i am used to but i feel confident cause I know.. more or less what to do for that so that is neat
15:32:18 <MattATobin> 2010
15:32:26 <MattATobin> ... feb 2010
15:32:53 <MattATobin> wow you guys really kept 1.1 going well past the point anyone cared
15:33:03 <MattATobin> well it is to my advantage
15:33:21 <MattATobin> more so to IanN than frg for a change
15:33:29 <MattATobin> HEY THE OLD TEAM STILL HELPS!
15:34:01 <MattATobin> sorry it took over 10 years to thank you for the source code for seamonkey 1.1.19 but there it is
15:34:03 <MattATobin> heh
15:37:38 <MattATobin> well flex was supposed to solve this issue but flex quickly became its own shit
15:37:42 <MattATobin> therube
15:37:45 <MattATobin> if you recall
15:40:24 <frg_Away> I only started 2015 around 2.39 I think. Things were broken badly then by mozilla and I needed some education.
15:42:09 <MattATobin> well i really do wish i had been less scream-y and more help-y at the time
15:45:05 <MattATobin> ALSO i can't be sure but it is possible a part of me thinks really I should be running The Seamonkey Project but that is silly cause I already run totally not netscape
15:45:43 <MattATobin> it makes sense but i am not sure if that is actually a factor.. have to think about it some more
15:45:46 <frg_Away> Bug 1188348 long ago was the first I think. Still have not replace the message box with a proper notification. doh
15:46:51 <MattATobin> right the dataman
15:47:12 <MattATobin> which I think did more harm to the project's rep than good cause it has never been.. good
15:47:30 <MattATobin> slow as hell on old ass profiles
15:47:55 <MattATobin> a problem when your core is literally netscape-types even if they don't quite know it
15:49:48 <frg_Away> I fixed up the old dialogs too. Still use the cookieviewer quite often.
15:50:11 <MattATobin> oh did you?
15:50:47 <frg_Away> yes. Was broken by the same changes. The three old ones still work as of today.
15:50:57 <MattATobin> i replaced em when i ripped out data manager in old Borealis now Mariner with a superior incarnation of Pale Moon's permissions manager dialog
15:51:10 <MattATobin> superior vs even Pale Moon's today
15:51:24 <frg_Away> permissions manager, saved logins and cookie viewer.
15:52:12 <MattATobin> saved logins comes from security manager's chrome package not communicator or navigator
15:52:26 <MattATobin> so confused how it was busted
15:52:36 <MattATobin> unless that was the issue
15:52:47 <MattATobin> it still had its own older broken copy
15:53:42 <MattATobin> i would have fixed up the cookie viewer that came from the xpfe transition but the firefox one was really improved
15:54:49 <MattATobin> frg these old tarballs with cvs directories.. do those contain the history for the code in that tarball up to that point?
15:55:03 <frg_Away> This all got switched to origins from host in 2.38 if I remember right. Before it was basically a text string key.
15:55:38 <frg_Away> I don't think they contain history.
15:56:04 <MattATobin> 38.. plus or minus 3 for gecko?
15:56:31 <MattATobin> plus
15:56:36 <MattATobin> 42/43?
15:56:40 <MattATobin> yeah
15:57:00 <MattATobin> refactor storm and landing of massive changes in that timeframe
15:57:19 <MattATobin> largely around webextensions and further corruptions
15:57:33 <MattATobin> i am sure the api change was to accomidate that
16:13:06 <MattATobin> lol frg would you even be able to find seamonkey's code in here and no nothing much in suite/
16:13:07 <MattATobin> https://github.com/binaryoutcast/xpcore.git
16:14:08 <MattATobin> aside from just knowing most of it is in xpfe/
16:15:16 <MattATobin> i always learn a lot just from poking now i will understand tho if i understand and find it superior vs what it was changed to .. well i will complain about it on the internet!!111one
16:16:04 <MattATobin> shit at this point doing ANYTHING on the non-web internet is rare outside email
16:16:42 <MattATobin> so i can say that with all honesty.. i will complain ON THE INTERNET not just the web.. i will complain over... FTP
16:17:41 <MattATobin> now how much people wanna bet i will have posts crapped as text files and point an ftp account at it and say THERE now I complain over ftp
16:18:17 <MattATobin> and some in here say.. THAT sounds lovely go do that
16:18:17 <MattATobin> lol
17:34:09 <njsg> 0706|17:13:34 < MattATobin> shit at this point doing ANYTHING on the non-web internet is rare outside email <--- what about RFC1459? :-)
18:23:16 <MattATobin> well i got this far but i need a break
18:23:21 * MattATobin uploaded an image: (658KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/drxoSNWkwoKTibMCcHYWxyCn/image.png >
18:24:28 <MattATobin> I miss service packs
18:28:35 <MattATobin> this is actually before I started building the codebase
18:28:39 <MattATobin> this incarnation
18:38:24 <therube> RFC1459 is a very good place to rant, though i don't know how to access it.
18:48:25 <MattATobin> it's.. building
18:48:26 <MattATobin> if this actually produces a successful build I will be shocked
19:07:23 <MattATobin> oh god
19:07:24 <MattATobin> oh god
19:07:26 <MattATobin> oh god
19:07:33 * MattATobin uploaded an image: (719KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/sjWnPeTwOfGExwYJyaFMqici/image.png >
19:17:02 <njsg> therube: well, there's always RFC1149!
19:18:10 <therube> njsg: i just used SeaMonkey 1.19 to look that one up ;-)
19:18:28 <therube> SeaMonkey 1.1.19
19:18:30 <therube> Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.24) Gecko/20100228 SeaMonkey/1.1.19
19:18:37 <njsg> therube: here, have a search engine gopher://gopher.floodgap.com/1/v2/vs
19:19:05 <therube> 1.1.19 has /some/ issues, but isn't that bad, heh.
19:19:55 <therube> i don't know if gopher: links still work in current SeaMonkey, much less FF, but they do in 1.1.19 :-)
19:20:14 <therube> gopher://gopher.floodgap.com/7/v2/vs?seamonkey
19:21:41 <therube> nope, no longer in current SM, "gopher is not a registered protocol."
19:23:45 <therube> https://i.postimg.cc/HngP6csS/Sea-MOnkey-1-1-19-gopher.png
19:24:30 <njsg> OverbiteFF and needs a small hack for initializing stream pump
19:24:45 <tomman> isn't 1.1.19 the final Win9x-compatible version?
19:24:47 <therube> amazing how consistent the UI has remained all these years (& that's good, IMO)
19:25:01 <therube> working fine on Win7.
19:25:15 <tomman> web browsers haven't really changed all these decades
19:25:28 <tomman> all we've got is more bloat built into the standards that don't really belong to
19:35:28 <MattATobin> therube my intent is not really to make a browser .. get that out your head.. as far as css and html and js i wanna support everything pre-html5/es6 and I wanna do a bunch of stuff differently but i want the same core tech but without all the rest
19:36:30 <MattATobin> but I do think I will trend toward the xpfe components and xpfe methods
19:36:37 <MattATobin> rather than toolkit
19:40:27 <MattATobin> but hey.. deep dark secrets still existing in today's evo56 codebase that sm is on tho that can be valuable too