06:36:10 please tell me that's not in search results 06:36:35 at least one good thing from google is that they're still one of the engines that actually lets me see more than 10 results per page... 06:37:06 and where "more than 10" doesn't mean "20" 07:23:17 stopped using goggles long ago 07:23:24 switched to ddg or startpage 07:33:07 last time I tried switching to ddg didn't go so well, but I'll perhaps give it a try again 07:36:06 tbh i hate goggles 07:36:41 nothing is stopping them from supporting windoze 7/8.1 with the chrome browser 07:36:53 but they had to pull the plug now causing steam to do the same 07:47:27 they could at least handle the version check correctly 07:47:41 it's slightly laughable that they identify NT 6.1 as Windows 7. 13:32:20 SeaMonkey status meeting in 30 minutes 13:35:37 hello no1 WG9s 13:36:55 Hi tonymec 13:37:21 https://wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2023-06-18 13:37:45 sily me hosul have sent that 13:42:21 status meeting in 20 minutes - https://wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2023-06-18 13:47:21 status meeting in 15 minutes - https://wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2023-06-18 13:52:22 status meeting in 10 minutes - https://wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2023-06-18 13:54:01 hi .* 13:57:21 status meeting in 5 minutes - https://wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2023-06-18 14:02:22 meeting time - https://wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2023-06-18 - And now, Heeeeeeer's frg! ;-) 14:02:44 Lets wait a minute or two for rsx11m 14:03:07 IanN is busy today and traveling. 14:03:15 ok bet you did not wxpect an into 14:03:23 expect 14:03:29 In any case I do the meeting notes again late :) 14:03:42 and problably no one ouside the US understood the intro 14:05:19 for 30 years that is how Ed McMahon introduced Johnny Carson on the Tonight Show. 14:05:46 yeah just forgot which show. 14:05:56 Anyway lets start 14:06:06 Nominees for Friends of the Fish Tank? 14:06:27 Hi rsx11m 14:06:36 hi frg * 14:06:37 njsg for hi work supporing user issues on Mozillazine 14:07:04 rsx11m we just started. IanN is traveling today 14:07:21 sorry, few minutes late... 14:07:24 rsx11m: hi 14:07:30 second ald also for helping out with patches and reviewing. 14:07:37 ^and also 14:09:43 rsx11m any additional nomiations from your? 14:09:49 ^you 14:10:06 * frg needs to type slower as host 14:11:18 frg: no 14:11:28 oki 14:11:38 Action Items 14:12:01 Nothing here from me. bau 14:13:53 Status of the SeaMonkey Infrastructure 14:14:37 IanN and ewong set up more stuff for using BugSplat as crash reporting site but didn't make it into 2.53.17b1 14:14:46 not sure this applies here but I am no onger able to post anything to achive nightly 14:15:16 sent email to ewong still awaiting a reply 14:16:26 I created a substitute page on my website and changed the loink inthe topic to go there 14:16:29 Opps too fast on action items. Project areas have been updated in bug 1828328. 14:19:04 Mozilla moved from aws to google. Bug 1828540 is still open. Might delay the beta. Hope ewong sorts it out so that the nightly builds also will appear again. 14:20:45 Anyway have not heard any news about the new Rocky 8 builder and Server 2012 R2 will also go away in a few months. So there will be infra changes. 14:21:07 Status of the SeaMonkey Source Tree 14:21:37 All building I think. 2.53.17b1 no longer needs Python 2. 14:22:07 late, but hello world~ 14:22:53 tomman hi 14:23:13 wow a refernce to the first program ever written in c 14:24:38 WG9s any problems with building central? 14:25:57 no but seems we have info in the meeting agenda about a no longer existing issue about how to get around the fact that mach bootstrap does not install a wasi-sysroot. well, it seems it now does so this whole section can go before the next meeting. 14:27:26 yes I did a build recently and seems now to import the world. Bloat**2 14:28:16 I think clang 16 under Windows with 2.53.18b1 pre now works too. Need to re-check 14:29:13 i am still working on the issue whcih you decided was distro dependnt on building under linux with clang 25 or later with elf-hack-enabled 14:29:44 Mozilla plans to abandon Windows 7 and 8.1 after ESR 115 starting with 116a1. No such plans here. If critical third party packages drop support it might come to it later but currently not even discussed. 14:29:59 I had hoped to figure this out yesterday but I did not feel well and am just now getting back to working on it. 14:31:06 Mozilla does not support their bowsers on any OS that the OS vendor has dropped support on. 14:31:40 if the os vendor no longer does scurity updates on the os they drop support of thir brwser onthe platform 14:32:08 WG9s well which is not true because Server 2008 R2 and 2012 are still supported and at least 2012 R2 will be for at least 3 years. 14:32:54 ooof, Mozilla, why!? 14:33:30 they feel if they support the browser on an OS that is not getting a security updates then they would be taking on the OS security vulnerabilies as their fault 14:33:48 tomman well you still have about a year and a half with ESR 115. 14:34:16 wonder what's their support policy with Linux builds then 14:34:28 I mean, plenty of EOL'd distros where the current binaries still run fine 14:34:41 WG9s I suspect it is just a good excuse. macOS up to 10.14 is also dropped. 14:34:43 but then, they don't even tell you which libc version they want 14:34:48 I am not trying to defend their position just trying to explain it. 14:35:10 yeah, understandable, too bad the average user doesn't care 14:35:59 anyway can't be helped and we keep the support as long as possible. I think SeaMonkey was one of the last browsers to support XP :) 14:36:20 but I think they do not need to drop support just need to not advertising as being supported to avoid any libility 14:36:31 And with 7 8.1 it is even easier because not much different from 10 when it comes to the api. 14:37:00 you now like we no longer support blah but it might still work but don;t blame us 14:37:01 Even MS needs to patch up Edge for now on 7 and the servers. 14:37:34 Release Train 14:38:02 2.53.17b1 is done. It is now in tmp https://archive.mozilla.org/pub/seamonkey/tmp/releases/2.53.17b1/ 14:38:15 Hope ewong manges to move it soon. 14:38:46 It will rpobably break a few ond add-ons as discussed here but I hope they can be patched up. 14:39:16 Otherwise the beta should be very stable (if you don't have mem errors) and please test 14:40:04 hey~ :D 14:40:30 tomman me? :D 14:41:05 so far no new crashes since detecting the problem yesterday 14:41:16 but that RAM is getting bought tomorrow! 14:42:11 I had some crashes 6 or 8 weeks ago but did go away. Some backports missing I suspect. Lots did go in then. 14:44:18 Anything else for release? 14:45:48 Extensions Tracking 14:47:01 I plan to do Bug 1083458 soon. Then hopefully no more add-on breakage for some time. 14:48:11 maybe there should be another note about Enigmail for SeaMonkey under the "Enigmail was discontinued [...]" item? 14:48:31 remind me what Mozillaism is that? 14:48:53 (hope I don't need to patch Redirector once more!) 14:48:57 njsg noted 3.14 is out. 14:49:18 tomman awful syntax It will not be missed. Check the bug. 14:50:27 uuugh, now that I can see it, yeah 14:50:33 it looks real ugly 14:50:38 good riddance then 14:51:08 need to watch out for that one 14:51:12 frg: huh? bug 1083458 (Core/JS Engine) was closed RESOLVED FIXED 5 years ago. Typo? 14:51:23 I hope I can get the legacy getters and setter in. 14:51:46 tonymec no. Still not done in 2.53. 14:51:51 KI think we have lst control of the meeting i have no diea what tomman is even taking about if it is enigmail this was not a mozilla decision this was a TB decision. 14:51:56 this? http://web.archive.org/web/20141019225043/https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Guide/Closures#Expression_closures 14:52:22 WG9s talking about bug 1083458 14:52:39 WG9s: I was talking about that deprecated syntax for expression closures 14:52:48 yeah, my bad, should have waited a bit before mentioning enigmail 14:52:55 enigmail now has a new 3.14 release version which is fine. 14:53:23 njsg just a bit of multitasking 14:54:02 re: enigmail, possibly useful to link in the meeting notes: https://enigmail.net/index.php/en/download/changelog#enig3.1.4 14:55:02 Yes. Whish we had the resources to set up our own add-on page. Not sure if SeaMonkey ones even get reviewed any longer. 14:55:03 anything else on extensions? 14:55:46 Next, Feature List, Planning 14:55:51 bau for me 14:55:52 pdf.js 14:56:00 would be nice to see a new SM-compatible release from somewhere 14:56:06 but the current one STILL works fine 14:56:24 aside of that, nothing new here, business as usual~ 14:56:52 we have updated the internal one in browser but needs to be adapted and packaged. No time as usual. 14:58:01 (what was the sidebar for facebook error? maybe I'm mixing things, but I wonder if that kind of message could be the initpump change?) 14:59:02 s/initpump/InputStreamPump/ 14:59:37 gotta go, blackout :/ 15:00:43 njsg usually it was the pref rename lately. 15:01:30 Anything else or should we call it a meeting? 15:03:27 nothing here 15:04:33 Then I jsut say thanks for your time and contributions and see you in 3 weeks with our regular SeaMoneky show host IanN again. 15:04:45 :-) 15:04:51 nothing here either 15:05:26 nor here 15:07:31 needed to change the nick to block an idiot using it. 15:30:32 and we're back 15:30:36 ...for now 15:30:51 it's raining, and this is the season where you get what you pay for 15:35:44 it... crashed again :/ 15:35:46 back to memtest! 16:22:49 OK, turns out I was actually isolating the wrong address 16:22:58 because memtest86 and the kernel see different address maps 16:23:10 because... x86 MMUs are hard? 16:23:32 memtest86 was saying my bad RAM was at 0x00000000a00f2888 16:23:52 so I had isolated the entire megabyte at 0x00000000a00f2000 to be safe 16:24:04 but... I was still tripping the crashes 16:24:33 turns out the kernel now also has a memtest tool: boot with memtest=, and it will EVENTUALLY catch the bad area and isolate it 16:24:57 not as effective as memtest86, but it actually found the proper address: 0x00000001e00f2888 16:26:00 a 20-bit difference on the offset! 16:33:35 tomman main reason I only use ecc ram on my desktops. Life is too short to track these errors. 16:33:58 no1: sadly this is a laptop, no such luxury :/ 16:34:01 yes, I know, the answer is "buy new RAM lolololo", but IT'S SUNDAY, IT'S DOWNPOURING RAIN OUTSIDE, THERE ARE NO COMPUTER STORES IN MY CITY ANYMORE, and we already had one blackout! 16:35:01 this stuff is in general poorly documented, especially memtest86's reliance on badram patterns, a set of kernel patches that not many distros include, and the kernel has better tools for that these days, but those are lacking good end-user documentation too 16:35:06 tomman yeah thanks to Intel no ecc support in these cpus and chipsets. 16:37:06 oh, the last time not only SeaMonkey tripped the crash for the umpteenth time, even STEAM of all things also managed to trip it! 16:37:20 the kernel gotta love those high memory addresses :D 16:40:34 lovely one-bit errors :/ 17:23:06 tomman: perhaps later in the week run it again (memtest) just to be sure it's constant 17:23:30 njsg: at least today and yesterday, the addresses seem to be constant 17:23:54 but I do intend to get this thing sorted out ASAP, as soon as I can buy the new RAM 18:28:13 frg - Windows Server 2012 R2 will go out of extended support Oct 10 2023 and after that date updates will be delivered by Microsoft 18:28:54 frg_Away: just checked and boostrap.js:533 in Sidebar for Facebook version 52 has Components.interfaces.nsIPrefBranch2, so it's the prefbranch rename indeed 18:29:29 no updates will be delivered by Microsoft 18:30:32 guest__ there will be esu updates for about 3 years. 18:32:38 https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/get-started/extended-security-updates-overview 18:46:16 no one - except large organisations - will ever buy ESU for Windows Server 19:12:21 frg - how is your progress with updated regex support? 19:13:05 more and more sites stop working in SM due to fucking Google Chromism 20:27:53 guest__ I know but slow go. Python 3 was another priority so that we are not kicked out of distros. Now halfway done but the current web is like wack-a-mole 20:28:26 https://cerebralab.com/Imaginary_Problems_Are_the_Root_of_Bad_Software related 20:29:10 the main reason of why the modern web sucks and it's overengineered to hell and back: because it's solving problems noone had 20:29:21 AKA the "shiny stuff"/"I am bored" syndrome 20:31:02 I'd go with: some people actually think backwards compatibility is bad, others don't care about it; when people thinking like that are in charge of frameworks, all it takes is using incompatible syntax once and it might break many sites 20:32:56 it's perhaps a bit like offering content without scripting 20:33:15 starting with some version, the mastodon web UI apparently doesn't want to do that 20:33:44 now that can be frameworks all over again too, some are designed to be so, so dynamic that such a thing is perhaps inconceivable 21:04:26 https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/ oh god, they HAD to deploy this regex garbage too! 21:04:35 > SyntaxError: invalid regular expression flag s 21:04:43 also wonder what's this: TypeError: event.path is undefined 21:05:11 Anyway, Anime News Network is now broken: images won't load anymore, and it completely ignores my layout settings 21:05:38 https://stackoverflow.com/questions/39245488/event-path-is-undefined-running-in-firefox 21:05:56 OF COURSE, ANOTHER CHROMEISM 21:06:28 ...wait, event.path no longer exists on Chrome as of v109 21:06:34 ...uuuuugh 21:08:32 wait, Event.composedPath is the standards-compliant one 21:08:45 and SeaMonkey indeed supports it (also Firefox since FF59) 21:09:29 why ANN went out of their way to implement a nonstandard Chromeism for which the standard implementation is old as dirt, AND the original proprietary one was removed a few months ago anyway?! 21:09:35 do they even test their junk!? 21:11:09 https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3187693 fixed for you, sweetheart... not for me 21:12:30 is it possible there are two versions of some script and that they fixed whatever is served to chrome/firefox UAs but left the other uncorrected?