15:37:45 Hola, I use wanikani kanji training website. A recent update to that site make seamonkey unusable 8-( What are the internal differences that make seamonkey and firefox incompatible? Thanks! 15:38:29 andr01d: it's more on the actual websites implementing the latest Chromeisms (on which upstream Firefox follows closely) 15:38:54 websites only test on Chrome, MAYBE latest Firefox, and that's it 15:39:27 and since most modern websites use 3rd-party frameworks and libraries that update frequently for no good reason at all, that's something most website authors don't bother checking 15:39:48 hence, why sites that perfectly worked last night on our non-mainstream browsers break badly by the next morning 15:40:34 implementing said new features (which come up pretty much monthly!) is not straightforward, given the lack of manpower and the ever changing web standards :/ 15:40:42 as for internal differences, Seamonkey uses an older engine afaik. 15:40:48 Her today, gone tomorrow: That was exactly my experience. The wanikani staff are fairly responsive. Sounds like I should inquire as to what framework they're using... 15:41:17 andr01d: I would complain at them, but I'm afraid that the answer you're going to get is "we only support latest Chrome and Firefox versions" 15:41:48 I would still complain, out of principle 15:41:57 They do say that. But they broke seamonkey once before, and after my communication, they made it work again 15:42:09 oh~ 15:42:34 I think I got a similar answer only once, from the SteamDB guys 15:42:50 I'm still hoping there is some workaround they can implement that will bring seamonkey back online 15:42:52 a rollback to some botched Chromeism, and a "hurr durr SeaMonkey should implement that" 15:43:29 andr01d: you can open the site, fire up the Developer Console (F12), and take note at the Console tab for error messages 15:43:38 that way you'll know what do they want this week 15:43:49 Ah! That's a great suggestion! 15:43:59 most sites are breaking these days mainly due to dynamic imports and emoji regexes 15:44:09 also, good ol' Google WebComponents 15:44:40 there are workarounds for the latter 15:44:45 There are 2 main breakages: text input used to switch between anglo-alphabet and japanese characters, and after entering an answer, the quiz forgets and asks the same question again. 15:45:31 So something about storing state is broken, and I'm not sure what's breaking the character input 15:45:52 I will definitely look at the Dev Console 15:45:56 hope the console yields a clue 15:46:04 I suspect fancy regex junk 15:46:27 Is there some way I can recognize that in the console? 15:46:39 sadly JavaScript is not like Visual Basic's On Error Resume Next: one error and the whole program dies 15:46:49 andr01d: errors are highlighted in red, warnings in yellow 15:47:06 I'll try it now! 15:47:07 and other messages have no highlighting (those are usually debug noise) 15:47:32 honestly, JS is an abomination, and I truly wish that Netscape had never developed it. 15:47:52 I'm not opposed to adding interactivity to websites in principle 15:48:09 a little bit of JS sprinkled sparingly at the right places really improves the user experience 15:48:26 the problem however comes when Google and friends decided to turn the web browser into the new OS 15:48:42 MS tried and noone wanted it, so they eventually gave up (...until Windows 8) 15:48:48 sure, but quite a bit can be done with just some CSS and standard get/post 15:48:59 Mozilla tried, and well... we all know how well it went (hint: not) 15:49:23 but Google pretty much forced everybody and his dog to embrace suck, and since modern webdev kids have the attention span of a fly, here we are 15:50:01 xuochi: hence why I said "sparingly"- you indeed do not need JS to achieve stuff that could be done with vanilla CSS 15:50:19 (and even CSS is suffering of feature creep these days, to the point of getting close to become a scripting language!) 15:50:20 the attention span of a fly? that seems generous. I have seen some seriously determined flies in my time. 15:51:21 Well, I'm not a web dev, but I have always hated JS 8-/ In the modern world, it seems html5 and css3 could replace most of it. But this site is completely JS. 15:51:28 of course it you don't use the latest Chromeisms rubberstamped by the W3C into the "living standards", you won't be getting that sweet sweet VC money :P 15:54:02 The console is not showing anything red or yellow 8-( There are lines and lines of: 15:54:06 https://assets.wanikani.com/assets/v4/lib/keyboard-manager-d7105..... 15:54:31 try opening the console, keep it open, reload the page, and use it normally 15:54:41 sometimes you may miss error messages if the console is not open when they happen 15:55:04 I have the console open while I make entries in the quiz 15:55:22 Each time I hit enter, and go to he next question, it refreshes, but no errors 8-( 15:56:34 no warnings, no nada? 15:57:00 https://assets.wanikani.com/assets/v4/application-6a1589.... 15:57:14 Nope 8-/ Just a bunch of lines starting like above ^^ 15:57:14 post the entire message, not only the URL 15:57:34 (use a pastebin if needed) 15:58:10 also, are you using an adblocker/scriptblocker? 15:59:00 Yes, I use both: adblock+ and noscript 15:59:22 I typically use the site with only their own domain aloowed (for JS) 15:59:37 But after the breakage, I tried enabling for all domains, but it didn't help 16:00:06 How do I get "the whole msg"? I just see thislong list of GETs. Each one has a twisty next to it... 16:00:20 If I open the twisty, there ar emore tabs 16:00:22 ah, not that page 16:00:32 second tab, "Console", just next to first tab, "Inspector" 16:00:38 you're at "Network" tab 16:00:42 I'm in the inspector, on the console tab 16:01:05 That's what opened when I F12 16:01:30 can you take a screenshot of that? 16:03:15 Got it. Do you have a prefered pastebin? 16:03:49 https://paste.debian.net/ is the one I usually use, but any will do 16:07:03 Could not add your entry to the paste database: 16:07:03 Length of code is not allowed to exceed 150kB 8-( 16:07:09 wtf 16:07:12 Let me find a different pastebin 16:07:13 it should be text! 16:07:23 It's an image of the screenshot 16:07:27 ah, pictures 16:07:30 use imgur or something 16:08:53 https://pasteboard.co/D8e1OXz2QQZt.png 16:09:48 ah, OK 16:10:05 indeed I see no errors there, just a bunch of XMLHTTPRequests being logged on 16:10:05 If I click any of the twistys next to the GETs, it opens up another set of tabs... 16:11:17 wait 16:11:22 "23 items hidden by filters" 16:11:37 you should have nothing filtered there 16:11:45 hit the Reset Filters button 16:12:19 (the default filter hides nothing except for those XHR requests that are noise) 16:13:01 wtf!, I wonder where that filter came from? 16:13:06 also, hit the Filters button, and uncheck XHR too 16:13:14 There are some erors after clearing filters, I'll upload again... 16:13:24 it should be: Errors, Warnings, Logs, Info, Debug: all enabled 16:13:33 CSS, XHR, Requests: all disabled 16:16:59 https://pasteboard.co/NdjgcahBK5Zg.png 16:19:31 I copied just the text into this paste: https://paste.debian.net/1276549/ 16:21:03 brb... phone's ringing... 16:24:17 "TypeError: asm.js type error: Disabled by debugger" 16:24:23 this is new... 16:24:35 "TypeError: Error resolving module specifier: v4/application" this is also new to me 16:24:43 "SyntaxError: expected expression, got keyword 'import'" 16:24:47 AHA! Dynamic imports :/ 16:25:07 "TypeError: window.performance.removeEventListener is not a function" this one can be ignored? 16:25:21 "^^ Module TypeError above is polyfilled and can be ignored ^^ wat 16:25:28 "SyntaxError: bad method definition" 16:25:41 can't remember what was that one 16:26:50 in any case, the dynamic imports one can't be worked around, it means they're now using JS dynamic imports because of course they have to use JS dynamic module imports 16:29:39 So the dynamic imports is a feature seamonkey doesn't support? 16:32:16 not yet 16:32:50 Well, this is all good info. I can pass it along to wanikani, in hopes they'll revert some of their changes, 16:33:05 https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Reference/Operators/import 16:33:07 Is it apparent from the console which framework they're using? 16:33:55 Aside of the New Relic crap (which is tracking junk you should block), I can't tell from the console messages alone 16:34:27 dynamic imports may come for a future release, but as usual, no ETA yet 16:35:14 it's not a new feature either, but frameworks started heavily relying on it since 2022 from my experience 16:53:05 The state of affairs really is depressing. When most websites use goggle derived frameworks, that just coincidentally only work on goggle derived browsers, where do we go? 16:53:37 I've lost most faith in mozzila foundation. Their main contributor is, of course, goggle. 16:54:26 I've managed to scrape along in seamonkey, with JS and cookies largely disabled. But it seems to be getting harder and harder not to be overrun by the goggle internet. 16:54:31 Where do we go from here? 16:55:12 gemini:// ? 17:25:37 well, the Seamonkey Association and the Seamonkey project will likely continue to work on things. I don't see why they'd suddenly stop. 17:25:47 As for Gemini, I don't see it taking off. 17:26:23 Regarding browser futures, ladybird and libweb seem to be developing quickly, so a future Seamonkey could replace the rendering engine with libweb once that is a viable option. 18:21:50 Thanks so much for y'all's replies... 18:22:18 tomman I really appreciate you going through the console output!