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andr01d
Hola, I use wanikani kanji training website. A recent update to that site make seamonkey unusable 8-( What are the internal differences that make seamonkey and firefox incompatible? Thanks!
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tomman
andr01d: it's more on the actual websites implementing the latest Chromeisms (on which upstream Firefox follows closely)
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tomman
websites only test on Chrome, MAYBE latest Firefox, and that's it
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tomman
and since most modern websites use 3rd-party frameworks and libraries that update frequently for no good reason at all, that's something most website authors don't bother checking
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tomman
hence, why sites that perfectly worked last night on our non-mainstream browsers break badly by the next morning
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tomman
implementing said new features (which come up pretty much monthly!) is not straightforward, given the lack of manpower and the ever changing web standards :/
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xuochi
as for internal differences, Seamonkey uses an older engine afaik.
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andr01d
Her today, gone tomorrow: That was exactly my experience. The wanikani staff are fairly responsive. Sounds like I should inquire as to what framework they're using...
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tomman
andr01d: I would complain at them, but I'm afraid that the answer you're going to get is "we only support latest Chrome and Firefox versions"
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tomman
I would still complain, out of principle
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andr01d
They do say that. But they broke seamonkey once before, and after my communication, they made it work again
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tomman
oh~
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tomman
I think I got a similar answer only once, from the SteamDB guys
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andr01d
I'm still hoping there is some workaround they can implement that will bring seamonkey back online
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tomman
a rollback to some botched Chromeism, and a "hurr durr SeaMonkey should implement that"
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tomman
andr01d: you can open the site, fire up the Developer Console (F12), and take note at the Console tab for error messages
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tomman
that way you'll know what do they want this week
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andr01d
Ah! That's a great suggestion!
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tomman
most sites are breaking these days mainly due to dynamic imports and emoji regexes
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tomman
also, good ol' Google WebComponents
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tomman
there are workarounds for the latter
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andr01d
There are 2 main breakages: text input used to switch between anglo-alphabet and japanese characters, and after entering an answer, the quiz forgets and asks the same question again.
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andr01d
So something about storing state is broken, and I'm not sure what's breaking the character input
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andr01d
I will definitely look at the Dev Console
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tomman
hope the console yields a clue
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tomman
I suspect fancy regex junk
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andr01d
Is there some way I can recognize that in the console?
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tomman
sadly JavaScript is not like Visual Basic's On Error Resume Next: one error and the whole program dies
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tomman
andr01d: errors are highlighted in red, warnings in yellow
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andr01d
I'll try it now!
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tomman
and other messages have no highlighting (those are usually debug noise)
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xuochi
honestly, JS is an abomination, and I truly wish that Netscape had never developed it.
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tomman
I'm not opposed to adding interactivity to websites in principle
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tomman
a little bit of JS sprinkled sparingly at the right places really improves the user experience
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tomman
the problem however comes when Google and friends decided to turn the web browser into the new OS
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tomman
MS tried and noone wanted it, so they eventually gave up (...until Windows 8)
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xuochi
sure, but quite a bit can be done with just some CSS and standard get/post
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tomman
Mozilla tried, and well... we all know how well it went (hint: not)
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tomman
but Google pretty much forced everybody and his dog to embrace suck, and since modern webdev kids have the attention span of a fly, here we are
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tomman
xuochi: hence why I said "sparingly"- you indeed do not need JS to achieve stuff that could be done with vanilla CSS
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tomman
(and even CSS is suffering of feature creep these days, to the point of getting close to become a scripting language!)
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xuochi
the attention span of a fly? that seems generous. I have seen some seriously determined flies in my time.
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andr01d
Well, I'm not a web dev, but I have always hated JS 8-/ In the modern world, it seems html5 and css3 could replace most of it. But this site is completely JS.
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tomman
of course it you don't use the latest Chromeisms rubberstamped by the W3C into the "living standards", you won't be getting that sweet sweet VC money :P
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andr01d
The console is not showing anything red or yellow 8-( There are lines and lines of:
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andr01d
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tomman
try opening the console, keep it open, reload the page, and use it normally
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tomman
sometimes you may miss error messages if the console is not open when they happen
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andr01d
I have the console open while I make entries in the quiz
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andr01d
Each time I hit enter, and go to he next question, it refreshes, but no errors 8-(
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tomman
no warnings, no nada?
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andr01d
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andr01d
Nope 8-/ Just a bunch of lines starting like above ^^
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tomman
post the entire message, not only the URL
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tomman
(use a pastebin if needed)
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tomman
also, are you using an adblocker/scriptblocker?
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andr01d
Yes, I use both: adblock+ and noscript
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andr01d
I typically use the site with only their own domain aloowed (for JS)
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andr01d
But after the breakage, I tried enabling for all domains, but it didn't help
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andr01d
How do I get "the whole msg"? I just see thislong list of GETs. Each one has a twisty next to it...
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andr01d
If I open the twisty, there ar emore tabs
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tomman
ah, not that page
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tomman
second tab, "Console", just next to first tab, "Inspector"
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tomman
you're at "Network" tab
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andr01d
I'm in the inspector, on the console tab
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andr01d
That's what opened when I F12
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tomman
can you take a screenshot of that?
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andr01d
Got it. Do you have a prefered pastebin?
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tomman
paste.debian.net is the one I usually use, but any will do
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andr01d
Could not add your entry to the paste database:
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andr01d
Length of code is not allowed to exceed 150kB 8-(
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tomman
wtf
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andr01d
Let me find a different pastebin
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tomman
it should be text!
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andr01d
It's an image of the screenshot
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tomman
ah, pictures
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tomman
use imgur or something
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andr01d
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tomman
ah, OK
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tomman
indeed I see no errors there, just a bunch of XMLHTTPRequests being logged on
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andr01d
If I click any of the twistys next to the GETs, it opens up another set of tabs...
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tomman
wait
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tomman
"23 items hidden by filters"
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tomman
you should have nothing filtered there
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tomman
hit the Reset Filters button
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tomman
(the default filter hides nothing except for those XHR requests that are noise)
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andr01d
wtf!, I wonder where that filter came from?
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tomman
also, hit the Filters button, and uncheck XHR too
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andr01d
There are some erors after clearing filters, I'll upload again...
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tomman
it should be: Errors, Warnings, Logs, Info, Debug: all enabled
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tomman
CSS, XHR, Requests: all disabled
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andr01d
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andr01d
I copied just the text into this paste:
paste.debian.net/1276549
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andr01d
brb... phone's ringing...
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tomman
"TypeError: asm.js type error: Disabled by debugger"
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tomman
this is new...
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tomman
"TypeError: Error resolving module specifier: v4/application" this is also new to me
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tomman
"SyntaxError: expected expression, got keyword 'import'"
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tomman
AHA! Dynamic imports :/
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tomman
"TypeError: window.performance.removeEventListener is not a function" this one can be ignored?
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tomman
"^^ Module TypeError above is polyfilled and can be ignored ^^ wat
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tomman
"SyntaxError: bad method definition"
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tomman
can't remember what was that one
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tomman
in any case, the dynamic imports one can't be worked around, it means they're now using JS dynamic imports because of course they have to use JS dynamic module imports
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andr01d
So the dynamic imports is a feature seamonkey doesn't support?
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tomman
not yet
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andr01d
Well, this is all good info. I can pass it along to wanikani, in hopes they'll revert some of their changes,
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tomman
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andr01d
Is it apparent from the console which framework they're using?
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tomman
Aside of the New Relic crap (which is tracking junk you should block), I can't tell from the console messages alone
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tomman
dynamic imports may come for a future release, but as usual, no ETA yet
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tomman
it's not a new feature either, but frameworks started heavily relying on it since 2022 from my experience
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andr01d
The state of affairs really is depressing. When most websites use goggle derived frameworks, that just coincidentally only work on goggle derived browsers, where do we go?
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andr01d
I've lost most faith in mozzila foundation. Their main contributor is, of course, goggle.
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andr01d
I've managed to scrape along in seamonkey, with JS and cookies largely disabled. But it seems to be getting harder and harder not to be overrun by the goggle internet.
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andr01d
Where do we go from here?
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andr01d
gemini:// ?
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xuochi
well, the Seamonkey Association and the Seamonkey project will likely continue to work on things. I don't see why they'd suddenly stop.
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xuochi
As for Gemini, I don't see it taking off.
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xuochi
Regarding browser futures, ladybird and libweb seem to be developing quickly, so a future Seamonkey could replace the rendering engine with libweb once that is a viable option.
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andr01d
Thanks so much for y'all's replies...
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andr01d
tomman I really appreciate you going through the console output!
