00:21:18 <hardys> frg_away: the wg9s x64 build from 25/03/2023 does only work in save mode
00:23:19 <hardys> frg_away: crash report: https://crash-reports-test.seamonkey-project.org/report/index/bp-944f391c-c975-453f-8cc0-055870230326
11:01:21 <frg_Away> hardys add user_pref("browser.tabs.remote.autostart", false); to your prefs.js. Will be fixed in the next build.
11:05:04 <IsambardPrince> It seems that unfortunately, SeaMonkey in Fedora is built with Clang/LLVM and does not benefit from the systemwide change to Fortify Source level 3 in GCC that landed in Fedora 38.
11:05:28 <IsambardPrince> I wonder if that would be disruptive enough to go ahead and cause a lot of breakage.
11:15:20 <WG9s> frg_Away: not sure what the deal is with that crash report from
11:15:59 <frg_Away> WG9s not much. Wonder why it did work in a vm.
11:20:26 <tomman> https://mrbruh.com/dismantling_malware_operation/ wtf, first site I see in the wild using AVIF images
11:20:34 <tomman> why the AVIFs, guys?!
11:23:30 <frg_Away> because it the best new sh*t before the next best new sh*t
11:25:25 <tomman> and I thought the meme era of WebM was over...
11:26:10 <tomman> also, a "security researcher" using AVIFs on his site to disclose some case is one of the things that leads me to distrust them
11:28:52 <frg_Away> tomman the era of poeple building and mantaining something is gone. The era of reinventing the wheel and bragging about how great you do is in. In software it is now called reducing your technical dept.
11:29:43 <tomman> remember the era when security flaws didn't required name-and-logo brands? :D
11:30:31 <tomman> (basically I interpret those as "Google, hire me! HIREEEEE MEEEE!!!")
12:54:00 <WG9s> hardys: new build in progress with timestamp of Mar 26 11:30
13:11:12 <hardys> WG9s: thanks, will report back
13:12:11 <WG9s> frg_Away:  did the fix I am just doing eraly builds to include it.
13:13:10 <WG9s> hardys: but you are welcome.  glad we could help so quickly
13:13:55 <WG9s> mhy windows build machine is old and slow, so far linux 643-bit builds are done
13:14:19 <WG9s> 64-bit
13:15:33 <WG9s> trying to type around my cat siting on my thing i put in to keep her from just sitting on the keyboard and having her own conversations.
13:17:26 <hardys> WG9s: as I test every build you provide I can report errors quick so it is easier to fix
13:18:31 <WG9s> If we only had MAC users doing that
13:19:33 <hardys> lazy people this apple folk ;)
16:27:39 <hardys> frg_Away: WG9s: all good with the new beta. Thanks to all
16:28:04 <WG9s> ;-)
16:28:28 <frg_Away> wonder why this didn't fail in a vm.
16:28:41 <frg_Away> would have picked it up earlier then.
17:08:37 <Loglandia[m]> Hello.
17:11:03 <frg_Away> hello back
17:15:27 <Loglandia[m]> Is it much hard to support Windows XP?
17:15:51 <tomman> that ship has sailed :/
17:16:08 <tomman> sailed, sinked, rescued by a 737 Max, which crashed again
17:17:01 <tomman> (Disclaimer: I still use 2.49.5 on my XP retrolaptops)
17:17:39 <Loglandia[m]> * I don't need Seamonkey for XP, because it's old hardware.
17:18:29 <Loglandia[m]> What about newer versions of Seamonkey?
17:18:56 <tomman> IIRC so much has changed since 2.49.5 on the underlying Mozilla base that a backport is simply not viable anymore
17:19:20 <Loglandia[m]> What is IIRC?
17:19:32 <tomman> if I remember correctly
17:19:46 <frg_Away> 2.49.5 is the last version for XP. There will be no later versions and restoring support is not possible.
17:20:27 <Loglandia[m]> Is not possible or "is not avaliable people to restore"?
17:21:53 <Loglandia[m]> How many money do you need to release a new version with Windows XP support?
17:22:05 <frg_Away> third party libraries removed support for xp. Compiler support is largely gone too. VS2017 could probably still be used. Not sure about later rust versions. It would be idiotic to try.
17:23:19 <tomman> let's do a Kickstarter
17:23:26 <tomman> dumber projects have been funded :D
17:23:49 <tomman> now seriously, the dependencies is enough reason to not get into that hell
17:28:08 <frg_Away> I wouldn't have taken it out otherwise.
17:28:09 <Loglandia[m]> 10000$?
17:28:09 <Loglandia[m]> 15000$?
17:28:41 <frg_Away> 1.000.000 Billion $
17:28:57 <tomman> one whole Silicon Valley Bank, please
17:29:08 <IanN_Away> that was bought for £1
17:29:22 <IanN_Away> well the UK version of it
17:29:38 <tomman> if you want to buy a bank, now it's the time
17:29:50 <tomman> even Credit Suisse went for "only" <$4B
17:31:07 <tomman> Anyway, back to XP, it wouldn't be a problem of money, but of sheer complexity
17:31:13 <tomman> web browsers are really complex animals
17:31:31 <tomman> even their dependencies are often a jungle
17:31:44 <frg_Away> Anyway life is too short to do an xp backport. I won't do it for money.
17:32:48 <frg_Away> I plan to cling to 7 support.
17:32:57 <Loglandia[m]> Is will okay if I will write here about other browser, what was created for Windows XP? Maybe it will be helpfull.
17:33:13 <tomman> what, that Pale Moon fork?
17:33:26 * tomman checks - Tobin is not here
17:33:36 <Loglandia[m]> ahahah
17:33:44 <Loglandia[m]> seems you know.
17:33:53 <Loglandia[m]> Mypal.
17:34:07 <tomman> yeah, and that one IIRC is based on some older Pale Moon release
17:34:10 <tomman> not on the current one
17:34:15 <tomman> so it's the same deal
17:36:27 <Loglandia[m]> What is library without Windows XP support?
17:40:26 <tomman> I'm not familiar with the build system of Mozilla products, but there are many components underlying
17:40:45 <tomman> so most likely it's not just "the one library" you fix/change
17:41:07 <tomman> as frg said, it's also matter of compilers, and that's delicate land too since the whole Mozilla build system is... touchy
17:41:15 <tomman> the largest dependency is Rust
17:41:59 <tomman> dunno how compatible is Rust with XP these days, but I guess the answer is "not at all"
17:43:01 <tomman> The other way would be backporting modern release patches to 2.49.5, but you would be basically redoing the changes up to the latest version, until you face the "no XP!" brick wall
17:43:17 <tomman> so yeah, not feasible
17:43:33 <tomman> it's like asking Microsoft to backport IE11 to Windows Me
17:44:02 <tomman> (hell, even IE6 relied on some XPisms that MS had to bring along to older Windows releases back when IE6 was new)
17:44:17 <frg_Away> I put VS2017 support in 2.49.5 and recently compiled a 2.49.6 so it still works. Thought about doing a Vista/XP64 build just for fun but life is too short. The VS2017 runtime seems to still work too. But everything else is mehhh.... libicu angle and probably a 100 other dependencies.
17:45:13 <frg_Away> Any donation should rather go to reactOS and help too. Only chance to rescue use for 11 and follow-up crap.
17:45:24 <frg_Away> ^us from
17:45:56 <tomman> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trillion-dollar_coin not even for one of these? :D
17:49:24 <frg_Away> nope.
17:50:07 <tomman> aw :/
17:55:20 <Loglandia[m]> What about 10 C/C++ developers?
17:56:19 <Loglandia[m]> How many C/C++ developers do you need to code for Windows XP?
17:58:20 <Loglandia[m]> In fact, without detailed about reason to not create Seamonkey for Windows XP, I'm useless.
17:59:40 <IanN> Loglandia[m]: it is not just about backporting SeaMonkey code, as has been mentioned, it is also 3rd party libraries that would need things backporting
17:59:47 <Loglandia[m]> Because it's not devoplment then, it's divintion.
18:00:48 <Loglandia[m]> Where can I read about that libraries?
18:00:58 <Loglandia[m]> s/that/those/
18:02:57 <IanN> Loglandia[m]: start by looking under third_party/ in the repo
18:03:47 <Loglandia[m]> All of them?
18:03:59 <IanN> Loglandia[m]: yes
18:08:48 <Loglandia[m]> aom, dav1d, python ._. , rust, sqlite?
18:08:48 <Loglandia[m]> What is AOM?
18:10:42 <Loglandia[m]> AV1 codec?
18:13:09 <IanN> that's what the README says
18:26:24 <Loglandia[m]> Yeah, you will not build that for XP, because Googletest inside.
18:30:05 <IanN> that message arrived 12 minutes later on libera.chat compared to Matrix
18:47:39 <IsambardPrince> I haven't used Windows in 17 years.
18:48:07 <IsambardPrince> So I would hardly say ReactOS, which is never going to work, and is trying to reimplement stupidity even if it did, is our "only hope".
21:34:54 <Loglandia[m]> There is Python 3.8 for Windows XP.
21:35:52 <Loglandia[m]> It's surprised for me that Seamonkey is dependent software.
21:52:30 <tomman> Python is a dependency of the build system, not of the actual product
21:52:46 <tomman> but... that's just ONE piece of this big jigsaw
21:53:07 <tomman> (also Python is notorious for its subtle incompatibilities here and there)
22:26:45 <Loglandia[m]> It's good that you still use IRC. There is not Matrix clients for XP.
22:27:28 <Loglandia[m]> In fact no good Matrix client for Windows.
22:29:42 <Loglandia[m]> XMPP and Tox are well too and available for XP.
22:50:03 <GrannyGoose> dunno why one would use Matrix
22:50:30 <tomman> Matrix has no good clients IMO
22:50:42 <GrannyGoose> its less than shit IMO
22:50:45 <tomman> the reference one is Element... which is built over -yuck!- Electron
22:51:12 <tomman> and all other alternative clients fall flat on their faces because basically Element is the de-facto standard
22:51:39 <tomman> (All I wanted is a decent Pidgin plugin... can't even have that nowadays!)
22:52:57 <GrannyGoose> i think its IRC clients also, there aint that many if any good irc clients out there anymore
23:03:56 <tomman> eh, for me ChatZilla is Good Enough™
23:04:01 <tomman> but then I'm a dinosaur
23:04:26 <tomman> do not need emojis or media embeds, the two reasons kids love their Discords
23:05:34 <tomman> the only thing where cZ used to be lacking was on DCC file transfers, but I haven't done one of those since I stopped pirating GBA ROMs on EFnet... well over a decade ago :D
23:05:52 <tomman> or was anime in Rizon? Can't really remember now