00:07:23 tomman: supposedly Redirector works for Wikipedia. I don't use this one, but per /r/wikipedia: Pattern: https://*.wikipedia.org/wiki/* Redirect to: https://$1.wikipedia.org/wiki/$2?useskin=vector 00:10:40 what I *do* use is greasemonkey 3.9.0.1rc1pre so if anyone knows of a wikipedia userscript that works with this relic it would be appreciated. This one doesn't: https://gist.github.com/Vusys/a9451ee719e27a4eb1fc05dcb2e60588 05:29:05 Does anyone offer a 2.53.15 that supports iso8601 besides buc? Anyone know if or when bug will offer 2.53.15? 09:46:55 email him 09:49:21 either that or make a redhat Bugzilla RFE 09:50:42 he'll have a FAS account which will have a @fedoraproject.org email account to it. email it if you can find it 14:24:37 CaptainTobin I do all my builds in a vm. I just bought NVMe drives to see if this would speed up things but the boost was neglectable. A SATA SSD is good enough. I doubt a ram disk would help. In my opionion cores and higher clock is all what matters. 14:40:34 I am waiting for that mythical 1024-core Ryzen~ 14:41:05 (but would settle right now even with a quadcore one...) 14:49:05 tomman I don't buy amd any longer. graphics card drivers are crap under Windows and the workstation processors might be locked to a vendor when you buy them used. 14:49:28 ah, the legacy of ATi drivers from hell 14:49:39 at least on Linux we got it better, what I'm not buying ever again is noVideo 14:49:44 I don't buy new Intel too so we are even here :) 14:49:55 too bad Intel dropped the ball BADLY with Arc 14:50:14 I guess Intel is cursed and will be forever doomed to the IGP arena 14:50:24 tomman Intel gfx is and was the pits. 14:50:50 they could have given both noVideo and AMD a run for its money, and instead... we got another i740 14:50:58 decent-ish hardware, horrible drivers 14:51:36 For my Linux server I bought a used AMD RX480 card. I should probaly state that I don't buy amd processors and gfx only used when cheap. 14:51:49 Nvidia and Linux = super urkkk... 14:52:20 so, SeaMonkey for RISC-V when?! :D 14:52:46 arm first :) 14:54:32 I guess the Year of RISC-V in the Desktop™ is coming after the Year of ARM in the Desktop™, aka "when pigs fly" 14:54:48 however, I also don't see RISC-V in my next cellphone either 14:56:44 tomman yeahh. I looked at arm stuff just to see if I can buy a cheap builder for testing. What is available outside of rack servers is overpriced junk. Think I might be able to run a Linux vm on the mac mini M1 but no time yet to check. 16:36:11 habemus release?! 16:36:15 yay~!!!! 16:49:46 yup 17:45:32 If you are building 2.53.15 on freeBSD: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1811421 17:45:33 If not just ignore. 17:50:35 no breakages to report on my backup amd64/Debian setup 17:50:42 time to restart this 17:51:36 tomman Some problem reported with greasemonkey but no specifics. Don't use it so can't comment. 17:53:04 tomman Some problem reported with greasemonkey but no specifics. Don't use it so can't comment. 17:53:29 same either 17:53:41 Monkeyfix and SeaFox don't seem to require new fixes 17:53:51 lemme check Palefill 17:54:10 still working (with updates disabled, of course) 18:49:13 CaptainTobin Hi https://ircbot.comm-central.org:8080/seamonkey/20230121#c206608 19:14:40 Retro question: what was the last version of SeaMonkey that supported Win98/Me? 19:15:05 need to load another browser on my PCChips junk for fun 19:29:14 frg_Away: cert is expired 19:29:25 on the 7th 19:29:28 yes needs an exception 19:29:59 just letting you know in case you were operating from an older exception Let's Subvert certs only last what 3 months? 19:30:37 ah frg_Away 19:31:00 well 2018 nvme interface isn't as sure fire as the current boards 19:31:10 i dunno if something quirky will happen or not 19:31:28 sata m.2 are quirky when drive access is between m.2 and other sata drives 19:32:15 i just wanted to use a ram drive for winders builds cause it might be somewhat faster and also less thrashy on a platter drive or .. I/O blocking on ssd 19:32:43 I am seriously considering dropping back to regular sata 19:32:46 not m.2 19:33:06 at least the 2017-2018 hardware i have doesn't seem 100% fleshed out or sorted 19:33:31 but a bios update might help but that is another risk.. there have been issues with the firmware last few years 19:33:41 so it would be more of a gamble than it should be imo 19:33:54 that is why i ask frg_Away 19:35:07 i likely won't be getting a next generation system for reasons of cost and i am not gonna fuckin deal with lga in any form 19:35:13 pins belong on the CHIP 19:35:40 they only did this to drive more people out of the build your own shit arena 19:35:51 obsensively to tablets and commiefones 19:36:33 there is no physical or technological reason that makes pins on the motherboard superior 19:36:58 in fact it makes the motherboard that much more expensive and harder to use with more risk in assembly 19:37:00 On a 2017 Haswell with an X10DAi. Best board I ever owned. LGA is a bit fragile but not changing cpus more than once or twice. 19:38:05 yeah but this isn't an era where one can just buy a cheap amd ryzen gen 5 and test your hand at it before buying the good shit 19:38:23 and intel isn't any indication of what amd is doing 19:38:30 cause patents won't allow it 19:38:44 it has to be different and have its own selection of bullshit along with common issues 19:38:57 frg_Away: is any of this actually making sense outside my own head? 19:39:14 I bought only used Xeons in the last few years. 19:39:47 i can still get a much better processor for this board.. just requires a firmware update.. 19:39:59 the whole world is conspiring to be unkind as a lifestyle choice 19:40:03 i am convinced frg_Away 19:40:27 uh, LGA has been used on all Intel desktop platforms since Prescott... over 15 years ago 19:40:33 yes nice 19:40:35 wonderful 19:40:39 and amd is new at it 19:40:42 and it isn't identical 19:40:53 and word is it is MORE fragile than intel 19:40:55 so.. 19:41:04 YEAH tomman that is my problem 19:41:05 but yeah, straightening a bent pin on a chip is hard, but on a socket it's simply impossible 19:41:26 it is expensive regardless it is new for amd and i have no experience at all with it and tutorials won't help 19:41:33 i have a solution 19:41:36 don't bend socket pins 19:41:44 it is very easy NOT TO 19:41:54 but basically BREATHING on lga fucks it up 19:41:56 practically 19:42:03 I was sorting out some parts earlier today and found a socket cover for LGA775 19:42:25 i shouldn't need to cover up anything on a main board 19:42:30 that is another issue 19:42:35 also I heard AMD's latest Socket SP5 (for EPYC) is basically a monster of over SIX THOUSAND LGA PINS 19:42:52 Intel only "maxes out" at ~4K pins 19:43:21 (while sockets are a long gone dream on mobile platforms, sadly - Intel left sockets behind after Haswell) 19:43:31 maybe if they weren't looking to design processors for fucking artifical idiocy .. we could have processors with practical tangible real world gains powering the technology and software we aren't ALLOWED to have and are attacked for trying to create 19:43:48 or hold on to 19:43:51 tomman: 19:43:57 tell Intel to not change the goddamned socket after every generation 19:44:12 they have been pulling this BS since... oh, Socket 1 19:44:43 gotta love the longlived Socket 7, which not only span a few generations, but also had actual competition on the same socket! 19:44:43 Well you will all love the new ram standard: https://www.notebookcheck.net/CAMM-memory-preview-The-Dell-SODIMM-revolution.658666.0.html 19:44:44 tell the usb people to stop fucking with a backwards compatible standard that is actually one of the most reasonable and successful cable standards globally ever created past coax and rca 19:45:13 what is that some half-assed rambus clone only even stupider? 19:45:20 rambus with AI 19:45:21 "CAMM was designed specifically to overcome the aforementioned performance limits of SODIMM while reducing both Z height and routing traces on the PCB to ultimately allow for laptops with both faster RAM and thinner profiles." 19:45:22 New a jedec standard: https://www.pcworld.com/article/1473126/camm-the-future-of-laptop-memory-has-arrived.html 19:45:23 > thinner profiles 19:45:24 effectively i bet 19:45:29 who's asking for thinner laptops?!?!?!?!?! 19:45:48 oh 19:46:00 well watch for AI reimagined rambus ram coming eventually 19:46:01 ah, more LGA connectors 19:46:04 i am calling it 19:46:08 LGA RAM?! 19:46:10 bdrfeuyi8wsgvbtfliuwgbf;law 19:46:27 I'm done.. i am erasing everything from 2019 on 19:46:35 it is now 2018 19:46:39 it has always BEEN 2019 19:46:41 18 19:46:44 also those modules are ridiculously big 19:46:50 which are anachronistic for laptops 19:47:04 reminds me of ancient Pentium-era proprietary RAM cards 19:47:04 big modules to solve the problem of small modules being too big 19:47:09 is that literally what you told me 19:47:27 ? 19:47:48 https://www.notebookcheck.net/fileadmin/_processed_/1/0/csm_MG_7461_f9a7f94bde.jpg OK, I genuinely like this 19:47:56 screwed up your LGA pins? Just swap the socket! 19:48:04 why we can't have that for CPUs too!? 19:48:11 ok yes 19:48:13 THIS makes sense 19:48:21 pressure pins 19:48:26 on contact board 19:48:31 very hard to fuck up 19:48:37 of course many OEMs will solder that thing for "reliability reasons" 19:48:44 getting us back to square one 19:49:21 tomman: you wanna write for BinOC lol 19:49:29 put all this shit out there 19:49:41 I also don't like the fact that the huge footprint of CAMM modules restrict laptops to a single socket 19:49:56 of course Apple doesn't care about sockets, and it has been that way all the way back to the original Mac 128K 19:50:32 this will make RAM upgrades costlier 19:50:33 i mean i like the concept as implimented but how does this solve the issue of the SODIMM even if soldering it on is your hidden plan 19:50:48 ram is already too expensive 19:51:06 and if it comes with rainbow puke lights it is even twice as much for NO REASON 19:51:47 but again.. 19:51:52 HEY 19:52:04 does that look like the width of two sodimms? 19:52:23 Another reason why I buy workstation stuff. Used ECC ram is cheap and the Xeons have more memory channels so basically still good to go even 2023 19:52:24 Or even 3 SODIMMs side by side 19:52:41 you can stack SODIMM slots too 19:53:03 yeah so while I like the concept how does this solve anything except not having to have 2-3 slot mechisms and everything being one module 19:53:12 I get the physics restrictions of pushing SODIMMs faster and denser, but... everything else looks dumber 19:53:46 why not just make "hybrid" modules that can be stacked then? 19:54:09 maybe if someone came up with one that had a couple of slots on the top side under the screws 19:54:13 make them LGA if you want, surround the module with a ring of LGA pins, like stacked PCBs 19:54:29 this looks like pressure contact pin contacts 19:54:37 not pins at all really 19:54:50 like.. cell phone batteries 19:54:51 it's a shame pogo pins are unfeasible for most electronics applications 19:54:56 that is what this reminds me of 19:55:02 battery contacts as pins 19:55:12 and i approve.. but i am not sure it makes sense HERE 19:55:43 why can't we just go back to slut processors 19:55:47 that solves a lot of issues 19:56:06 and sluts are more popular than ever with the dimm.2 and successor bullshit interfaces 19:56:13 so pga makes even LESS sense 19:56:33 As having played recently with a dual Slot 1/Socket 370 mobo, my opinion on slotted CPUs is... hybrid 19:56:51 whtever connector on a board in a slut? 19:56:53 they take space and are annoying to mount, but so are socketed fansinks 19:56:56 --heatsinks 19:56:59 whtever connector on a board in a slut? 19:57:13 that would be lovely 19:57:37 Intel tried fixing the world with Slot 1, and had to give up as soon as they found how to put L2 cache on die 19:57:40 then if you ARE fucking with a connector that bends when you breath on it least you can isolate JUST that bit until it is safe to handle 19:58:00 I owned a slot 2 board too 19:58:40 the only thing I hate from Socket 370 is their horrendously fragile exposed flip-chip dies and how tight are the heatsink clips on S370 coolers 19:58:49 how about we have a cpu board, ram board, an m.2 board, and get a fuck ton of shit OFF the mainboard 19:59:05 THAT is how our forefathers built computers and it worked for them 19:59:08 Apple did that for years, and so did IBM on their enterprisey iron 19:59:17 the mobo wasn't a mobo but a backplane 19:59:26 because it makes fuckin sense.. except in a throwaway consumer drone world 19:59:38 WHICH IS WHAT HAS LEAD US HERE 19:59:51 ironically ancient Apples were very upgradable 20:00:01 the macintosh is what ruined apple 20:00:07 want a PPC CPU on your 68K? Just put it in on the PDS slot! 20:00:07 more steve jobs bullshit 20:00:11 thanks steve 20:00:28 heh, reminds me that story when Burrell Smith tried to sneak in a slot on the original Mac 20:00:41 Jobs shot down that every time he found it 20:00:44 the GS line is the TRUE evolution of apple technology.. the lisa and macintosh were wrong. 20:01:01 and it was superior to the classic mac 20:01:07 Burrell's only design win was to leave the extra two address lines for the upcoming 64K memory chips 20:01:27 so you could upgrade your 128K Mac to 512K... by using a soldering iron 20:01:36 but Jobs wanted APPLIANCES, not COMPUTERS 20:01:47 these people don't care about technology only what how much power it can give them to push their more radical bullshit 20:01:54 that didn't ended well between Smith and Jobs 20:02:01 oh late 80s sure it was appliances 20:02:29 just like attempts to ship older computers as cutrate video game consoles didn't work out 20:02:35 https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Diagnostic_Port.txt&sortOrder=Sort+by+Date&characters=Burrell+Smith 20:02:59 watch the nextstep launch and then watch the OSX launch 20:03:03 it is almost identical 20:03:08 point for point 20:03:10 demo for demo 20:03:17 and now with the ARMacs, we're back full circle 20:03:33 only difference is replace nextstep with apple and a user interface with jello 20:03:35 you get some USB/TB ports, and that's all 20:04:21 google and microsoft will push these arm service devices as if apple does it first then neither can be held for anti-trust 20:04:26 that is what changed 20:04:42 apple became the test case and president starter 20:04:50 THIS is why Microsoft bailed them out in the first place 20:05:52 but google has made the token compeditor concept successful in a way microsoft never did.. now microsoft just lets google use apple and then microsoft uses google and in turn google gets second only to microsoft priority on the OS 20:06:21 until google can kill microsoft 20:06:56 which the way its going.. looks like a real possiblity that microsoft will end up as a peer of Mozilla in Google's eyes and worldwide influence 20:07:24 who would have imagined that 20:07:46 and still nerds rage over Bill Gates, who has now even divorced (and in risk of losing some of his private jets) 20:08:06 microsoft on its own we could deal with.. especially when it was more about simple greed than world wide destruction as a long term business strategy 20:08:35 I think Billy boy was corrupted in turn for basically the microsoft anti-trust case having no actual long term consiquences 20:08:45 the difference between Google and MS is that MS was opt-out, while Google was opt-in, and everybody opted in! 20:08:46 and that is why he is such the disgusting creature he is today 20:09:14 rather than the geek with a mild power seeking mentality to make up for being a geek 20:09:31 and now I get why retrocomputing is on the rise 20:09:32 compare gates in the early 90s with when he was in court to today 20:09:46 are they really the same man on a fundamental level? 20:09:51 Windows 98 is starting to look lovely again :D 20:10:20 Windows 2000 was the best the 90s mustered 20:10:37 and windows 2000 is the ONLY reason we are even in a somewhat workable position still 20:10:57 IF the NT kernel had stayed nt4 like or even stayed xp-corrupted would it have lasted? 20:11:19 Windows 2000 is the bar.. the milestone to meet.. the server team never forgot that 20:11:34 well until they were sucked into azure or fired 20:13:26 while Steve Ballmer himself has done his own share of creature devolution him self.. in the 2000s he was top of his game.. and his vision was doing realllly well up until he put the guy who fucked up office in charge of windows and after fixing vista low hanging fruit fucked us up to where we are now 20:15:08 like i said before.. i knew shit was going wrong fundamentally when most of Microsoft's sites went wordpress and some with bootstrap js or wordpress WITH bootstrap js.. that plus metro and THAT is why I got so worried in 2010-2011 20:41:39 tomman: so when are we gonna just all band together and create an OS that actually works and makes sense 20:42:59 you know.. if the web and email are off the table.. i would totally consider going back and forking 1.9.2 20:43:07 and start reverting xpinstall's depercation 20:43:38 or more likely 1.9.0 20:43:52 i can take 1.9.0 to 1.9.2 without screwing over xpinstall 20:43:53 i am sure 20:45:04 oh 1.9.0 was already reduced 20:45:19 well 1.8.1 isn't too old LOL 21:21:44 > The last version with Windows 98/Me support was SeaMonkey 1.1.19. 21:21:54 wonder how much of the Modern Web™ works on it... 21:22:09 (on IE6, pretty much no site using SSL will open nowadays) 21:22:09 so gecko/1.8 21:22:21 1.1 was still xpfe 21:22:27 with full xpinstall 21:23:36 tomman not much. Have it in a 98se vm. One step above a doormat only. 21:23:55 i figured out how to get win2k to install in vmware on ryzen 21:24:01 I've got two bare metal 9x setups for toying here: one with 98SE and another with ME 21:24:03 takes a bit of work 21:24:17 and i adhoc'd it with an already working nt4 vm 21:24:38 but i can do it that way from clean install 21:24:54 tomman still use it on a T42 with my second eprom burner. Can do 2532 and 2532A unlike the better one. 21:25:18 windows 98 tho i can't get to work 21:25:23 on vmware on ryzen 21:26:05 wow, there is no es-ES langpack for 1.1.19 21:26:15 not much intrest for me in 9x anyway.. except for the exrteme hack that inspired Windows PE that used 9x as the base 21:26:25 tomman: 1.1 was early days 21:26:53 literally gecko and suite after mozilla discontinued it the seamonkey project was barely operational 21:27:09 maybe it's time to revive 9x... where YOU owned your computer... and all the skript kiddies on the block too! :D 21:27:13 it wasn't until the toolkit transition did we see a short golden age of suite 21:27:15 okno 21:27:21 but we all know what happened 10 years ago 21:27:27 cause i never shut up about it 21:27:28 lol 21:27:28 Lemme recap my history 21:27:37 got online in 2001 21:27:48 used NS4 side by side with IE5.5 21:28:08 then moved to Mozilla Suite as soon as there was a release that would not crash on my Celery with WinMe 21:28:18 (that was circa 2002-2003) 21:28:26 i first got online in a modern sense with windows 3.1 trumpet winsock and mosiac netscape 0.9 on a 286 upgraded to a 386sx 21:28:39 before that internet connected BBS a total of ONCE 21:28:41 can't remember which version it was, most likely 0.x? 21:29:00 then switched to Firefox in late 2004 (after the Olympics) 21:29:31 Firefox was a good product until it became the RIGHT product the ONLY product 21:29:32 also in the 0.x's - stayed there until The Destruction Of Mozilla™ began with FF4 21:29:35 that mattered 21:29:58 ran 3.6 for as long as I could, until I learned that I could turn FF10 into FF3.6 with some easy mods 21:29:58 the destruction of Mozilla swung into full swing the moment Firefox 3 went out the door 21:30:11 and Firefox 3 was manipulated badly from the ux team 21:30:13 then I finally jumped ship after the Australis tragedy 21:30:32 the band of crybaby mac users who made the first inroads into screwing us all 21:30:36 and now, like a good children comes back to home, I came back to what's now known as Seamonkey sometime around 2015 21:30:45 frg_Away is aware of this but did not witness it 21:30:54 IanN_Away however did 21:31:27 well we have our own visions and priorities and i have FINALLY accepted that. 21:31:30 Australis was what made me abandon Firefox for good, because there was no way to get my classic UI back there 21:31:49 and even back then Google Chrome was "just" a threat, not the new IE 21:31:55 Australis was just the jump the shark pretense in marketing after that pretense has been stripped 21:32:25 Google is a threat because it has too much power over the planet either directly or via partners and constripts 21:32:30 conscripts 21:32:49 BUT Google isn't the end of the line 21:33:23 and I don't know WHERE it goes past google exactly 21:33:53 and it is a lot harder NOW to have a chance to find out than it was before but the priority wasn't as high before 21:34:47 I mean, back when I dumped FF for SM, web compatibility wasn't a problem YET 21:34:59 because Google and friends weren't pushing out new half baked standards every week 21:35:05 what it is is we are all really fuckin stupid as a species.. denial and apathy and going along purely out of fear of being excluded.. these are the core issues of why evil keeps rising time and time again 21:35:07 JavaScript usage was not as heavy 21:35:34 and devs were focused on cellphones, not on turning the web browser into the next OS (ironically something where MS failed miserably) 21:35:53 it all became a pandemic in the last 4 years 21:36:10 when developers switched toolchains to the insanity of node.js and folks 21:36:24 where your website is just a Git commit away from breaking in production 21:36:48 the pandemic was always planned.. the only thing in question is how much of covid was engineered and how much was simply taken advantage of 21:37:16 we been planning pandemics ever since the concept materalized 21:37:58 sometimes it is just a controlled messure of exposer for immunity.. sometimes it is because we fucked up bad.. and sometimes it is because someone wants to fuck us all 21:39:43 fun fact.. the previous scares like west nile, birdflu, swineflu, mad cow disese.. all shit that happened but all shit that was also exploited as far as people would allow.. so really.. a vast majority must want this because they keep allowing it to continue 21:40:15 and if anyone raises an issue even if all the new strats fail.. one can always fall back on historic outbreaks like the black death 21:40:45 there is always a way to fear monger and exploit a situation .. just if it is worth bothering seems to be the only real factor 21:42:09 well I think I am gonna add my own section of BinOC Standards 21:42:26 and assume defacto authority over XUL and Mozilla's RDF and XBL 21:42:33 who better? 21:42:37 ;) 21:42:56 kinda like I assumed defacto authority over DOMi but ONLY DOMi 21:43:05 it is a percision tool 21:43:08 not a club 21:44:21 Who wants HTML 4.9 21:54:16 just installed on Me 21:54:23 oh, there WAS a splashscreen! 21:56:43 surprisingly Google keeps a HTTP-only search portal 21:57:05 HTTPS still works there too 21:57:50 unsurprisingly, SeaMonkey's own homepage won't load anymore 21:58:34 but Hackernews DO open 21:59:24 mozilla.org loads 22:04:20 1.1.19 does open far more websites than IE6SP1, so there is that 22:04:52 would not do my banking or email there, but for casual browsing of non-Googledamaged websites it's OK 22:05:15 xpfe's version of apprunner had a splash screen 22:05:25 they removed it along with the resident agent 22:05:51 > a vast majority must want this because they keep allowing it to continue 22:05:53 Sounds like Qanus stuff which is a channel I will never subscribe too. Was bound to happen and will happen again. Only luck here was the low mortility rate but even this was enough to almost overwhelm the hospitals here. 22:06:55 well i am open to other explainations but the effect of it can't happen to me or it has nothing to do with me and it is what it is are just dangerous mindsets in times of peace and penty as much as in times of death and destruction 22:07:22 Wikipedia won't load, it wants a newer crypto and says it outright 22:07:38 the poor kids at Guinea won't be able to learn :/ 22:07:46 they just want newer crypto to hide what it is doing on the user side 22:08:19 I wanted to see how the latest UI/UX vomit of Wikipedia's redesign broke on vintage PCs 22:08:25 part of the eventual future of a website being nothing but a blackbox bunch of bytecode you execute to use their service.. 22:08:25 now I will never learn! 22:08:41 well, most websites have reached that point 22:09:04 so .. blackbox js is ok but remote xul is bad .. xul period is bad.. right? 22:09:05 they no longer serve straight HTML, but a soup of toxic JS framework-of-the-week and the body as a JSON payload 22:09:06 tomman: 22:09:13 that is still the state of things correct? 22:09:25 i been out of the loop on what I am and are not allowed to think 22:09:34 and as soon as there is a script error (due to unimplemented Chromeisms or some Git commit gone bad at a upstream dependency), you get NOTHING on screen 22:09:46 many sites now break in that fashion on our browsers 22:09:49 like webmin 22:09:50 even stuff as blogs 22:09:51 webmin 22:09:57 on the gray framed theme 22:10:08 had js menu dependant on some node lib 22:10:11 from some cdn 22:10:18 or something to that effect 22:10:32 i just wanted to make sure webmin knew it is more than just Moonchild bitching 22:10:54 Or something like MercadoLibre, where the pages will render more or less OK without JS, but with JS you get served static HTML... and half a megabyte of THE SAME PAGE CONTENTS as JSON payload! 22:11:05 i think the VERY first xul project i should do that is new is a clone of the Program Manager 22:11:15 (this is why I don't bother selling stuff online there anymore... well, that and their asinine anticustomer policies) 22:12:07 well HTML 4.9 and Eichscript 5.9 22:12:15 those are gonna be my standards 22:12:59 the engine is capable of more but those I am gonna codify into BinOC Standards 22:13:07 someone has to have some after all 22:13:59 well, my vintage PCChips mobo is pretty much done for now 22:14:11 WinMe runs like a champion without crashing twice per hour 22:14:23 it even got a DVD decoder card,complete with analog TV noise! 22:14:52 vintage Office 97/2K and SeaMonkey seal the deal 22:15:11 too bad I can't use the DVD decoding features of the chipset (SiS 630) because they're... how I would say, FAKE NEWS! 22:15:34 Windows ME can run fine in a very limited range of hardware or with specific oem care.. it however was NOT primed to replace Windows 98 SE on a global scale.. to do so would have rendered ME pointless in its entirety 22:15:53 I also have the exact same payload on a 98SE setup on a second HDD 22:15:58 i think ME was a stopgap first.. and 9x perceptual manipulation second 22:16:12 ME bad.. 9x bad bsod.. Wow Windows XP! 22:16:23 that IS how it happened but was it planned 22:16:25 went from "some 98 beta" -> 95 -> Me -> XP -> 7 -> end of road 22:17:27 DOS and Windows 3.1 to 95 to 98 to 98se to 2000 to whistler to whistler 2416 to 2000 to xp sp2 to windows 7 build 6--something the one that leaked before 7000 was released 22:17:56 now I am on LTSC 2021 22:19:28 i am not looking forward to overriding and defining a style that is sane but doesn't clash too badly with windows 11's lack of a design aesthetic 22:19:39 for shit like popupmenus 22:19:42 at the VERY least 22:20:10 windows classic context menus have been stylefucked to promote the context menu that hides everything you want 22:20:21 and uses newer apis not gdi emulated with dwm 22:20:27 but directui 22:20:40 well whatever shit they have over directui 22:20:42 anyway 22:23:06 CaptainTobin There is a reg patch for this but even then the taskbar is fubar. Will probably update to Server 2022 from 2019 and then we will see. Supported till 2031 and probably the last semi usable Windows. 22:23:27 Or I buy the farm before. You never know. 22:29:06 Well i may just give up on explorer as a shell 22:29:35 write a program manager, file manager, task manager, and just work like it's 1993 22:29:39 but with xul 22:29:42 LOL 22:30:47 PERSONALLY I think navigator.xul's inhearent layout and design makes it a perfect canidate to become the base UI for a lot of shit.. the sidebar, the toolbar, statusbar, menu, customizable.. JUST the tab content needs changed.. 22:31:21 and there needs to be a way to tie a global toolbar and children to different KINDS of tabs.. ala IE 4 22:32:17 pretty much the majority of my intended applications save a program manager SEEMS to need a toolbox a sidebar and tabs 22:32:48 THAT sounds like the makings of a global main-window one can overlay 22:32:58 if it makes sense to do so 22:33:44 standard base UIs to include standard base widgets.. deviation is always possible but if it makes sense to use it may as well use the same one 22:33:49 frg_Away: sorry 22:33:56 i get all idealistic with this shit 22:34:03 even in the face of darker times to come 22:34:25 anyone have an indiction cooktop or portable burner for one 22:34:30 are they any good? 22:37:50 Freind has an induction one for ages. He liked it then. But needed new cooking pots for it. But was about 18 years agao so anything new should work with them. 22:39:00 Quote fro the net: Induction cooktops do not work with non-ferromagnetic cookware.