I am bringing thereisonlyxul dot org back and it is going to fulfil NOT ONLY its orginal intention but in a way that is NOT limited to only the cool kids..

Been working on it.. personal.mattatobin.com/image/captu…955-992f-4fe6-a549-096c05c4ba08.jpg

I don't care that no group completely trusts if not hates the others.. I want to prove a fuckin point.. XUL Lives.

There is no data. Only XUL.. BUT if you insist.. my fuckin page will exist.

neko_the_gamer: hello

nvm irc doesn't work on android

franstam: when I bring the site back up do you want a different blurb than what I wrote?

er

frg_Away:

IanN_Away

NewTobinParadigm Fine with me.

I think I will remove the first sentence

i just copied some text off the front page

I also am gonna add a formerly/not quite xul section as well for select projects as well likely just 2-3

Btw tested VS2022 17.4 today. Broken again so keep 17.3 for now if you plan to use it later. ipc code needs updates. hash code is borked. Not sure if it is post 52 code only.

Sticking with Vs2019 which is fine.

UXP is already 2022

but i am sure there are likely issues that are edge cases that hasn't been made apperent again

so i am hesitant

frg_Away: it will depend where i get the updated code from and if it happens to not be compat with whatever compiler figuring out how to make it as such

like an xpcom patch making use of vs2017+ behavior of static_assert where the second argument is optional but vs2015 it is required to be a string literal

yes I saw this. Wonder if they already tried it with the latest level.

well i will see which once I am able to do it produces the best results and TRY and stick with it.. I may stick with 2015 cause the lib updates that require newer vs really aren't THAT critical at this time.. merely would be nice kinda level

I ran into the static assert and it will go away with c++17 compatibility . Still not there for SeaMonkey but close.

well its an easy workaround.. add a string literal

Yes that is what I did.

you know exactly which patch don't you

funny they haven't removed the spidermoney wrapper yet

nor any existing string literals

Moonchild obscures which bug numbers he has patched

most never get unrestricted but i dunno why one needs to obscure a direct or minorly adapted mozbug

which is why in the style guidelines the normalized Mozilla commit message was acceptable when applicable.. Bug XXX - Part X: Message

which is why I use Issue #XXX - Part X: Message

Yes makes it easy to pretend you are a genius. I am not so keeping bug numers and author information :) Also not ok to remove this.

I always wanted to highlight every time we backported mozshit especially when it was really hard or deemed impossible

creation is part of the job.. application is the rest!

I need to after I finish this cycle.. formalize HOW i can properly attribute and document where I get everything without it being a pain in the ass... and without having to amend author

one thing I do want to do is modify the MPL header of any file modified since UXP's creation with a header that is more akin to 1.1's where it collects all the contributors and shit

use repo history for it

also ONE of the uses of that comm-esr52 repo you converted for me frg_Away

likely use repo history to replace the header with the 1.1 version.. modify it to reflect 2.0's requirements.. then update it using commit history

Well I just use the hg patches and import them via the series file for our releases. Original information kept. Case closed.

so everything is nice and documented

well i can't simply apply things

a lot of the time

so if i do it I have to do it

there is no automated process

Yes the oatdhes are not always 1:1 because of rebases but mq is good here.

^patches

Master branch updated too recently so more stuff permanent: gitlab.com/seamonkey-project/seamonkey-2.53-mozilla/-/commits/master

so jorg made contact with me

formerly thunderbird jorg

seems he started his own minor rebuild project called betterbird

that will be interesting to explore

Yes basically like we do with an mq patch queue but based on 91 and probably 102 now.

he might be willing to answer some questions cause he was in the middle of such releases like 52

frg_Away: he is the reason i considered adding a non-xul honerable mention section

that and i think i am gonna list MyPal 68 forever cause I have done quite enough harm some of it undeserved to fedor2 specifically

frg_Away: if he hasn't lost his passion for anything outside his own project he might lend a hand or at least advice to both of our stuffs occasionally if we do the same

I and jorg mail now and then if something comes up. Helped him with one or two build issue too. But recently so deep into backports that I didn't look much at the suite code.

that is why despite doing my own thing I want to try and support other projects and shit as much as I can without becoming severely intertwined with it for the good of most of all of us even if that is merely supporting the right to exist and attempt the thing even if i hate you personally

that would be more for .. THEM

in that case

I hate no one just for code I dislike. I lost repect for some but that is it.

I orginally wanted to include everyone.. but very few want to work together and even fewer will stick it out more than a year or a month.. that eventually ended with me pissed at everyone and everyone trying everything to get me to go.. I finished what I was doing except one bit and went.. for a year.. then I came back when everything went to shit to stop it from going too far and worked my ass off for a solid year.. 12-16 hours a day very few

days where i wasn't through my birthday, thanksgiving, christmas, new years.. i lost my god damned mind but i produced UXP, Phoebus 2.0, started Borealis and shipped Interlink and helped ship Pale Moon 28.. I recovered after that was all done and the rest you know or could know cause it happened last few years.

THAT was to then go from including everyone to providing structure and stability for everyone to do their own thing but also collaborate with common cause

i established that

well obviously that failed for me and is becoming harder to keep together for everyone..

SO NOW

I am merely supporting everyone existing and doing their own thing and hoping but not expecting any collaboration whatsoever but ready to jump to it if it would be of benefit

and doing my own thing

even tho this year seems to indicate otherwise

heh

and that is just what has to be for now at least

you know frg_Away

guys...

Would SeaMonkey not be faster if you turned of hypertreading???

I just realized that... it might.

off? no

I have an old 4 kernel and 4 treads....

you'd merely sabotage anything that takes advantage of multithreading

And SeaMonkey does not do well with multicore as far as I know compared to other browsers who divides themself.

Sea-Monkey does not do Multicore well, correct? So... as far as I can gather it will just maximise the speed of SeaMonkey.

I just turned multithreading off in my bios.

as far as I recall... Sea-Monkey has yet to be maximized for this... so... I'm like, just turn it off and get more power for Sea-monkey.

single process xul applications aren't extensively multithreading because multiprocess was prioritized instead and much of the so called efficency and responsiveness comes at a cost of increased interprocess communications and vastly increased attack surface and vectors.. and depending on the state of classic vs modern mozilla code.. multi-process is WORSE than single blocking instance in some cases

so please further explore these types of things before going to someone's project channel and just spouting and deeming dude

Well, how can I benchmark Sea-Monkey?

I can then test it before and after, with and without the Hypertreading.

I think I might be on the winning side of this :)

synthetic benchmarks only test synthetic conditions

JGod-P666-15: the only way you are on the winning side of this is only if you define winning as failing to prove your case and refusing to surrender. Please don't play those kinds of games..

Well, whatever nonsense can be spouted. It seems sane that Sea-Monkey would run better with less cores and thereby more powerful cores.

i have had a really positive day today

hyperthreading has nothing to do with mutithreading. I have hyperthreading permanently disabled. Made compiling slower. Depending on you workload it might speed things up but you usually won't notice.

JGod-P666-15: eh, SeaMonkey is not multithreaded (aka e10s)

There you go tomman, why the fuss with all of you.

JGod-P666-15: I am speaking to you as not a member of this project but with familarity with it and a deeper than most understanding of the general way the code works especially in this regard cause it has been a constant hot topic

turn of hyper threading and there you go, x2 the power for each core.

Well I'm not a programmer, so I'm still keeping sanity here.

tomman: there IS some multithreading even in e10s mode and out of e10s mode.. some libs always have been

Hmm I need to tell SeaMonkey then to not use 107 threads which it does here currently :)

having said that, I've never been a fan of hyperthreading (thaaaaanks Intel, but I'll take full cores)

Well... I'm running 4 cores now instead of 8.

but you just live with that

half a core is better than no core, I guess

JGod-P666-15: so you come in here and try to tell us that as not a programmer you read something that has been copypasta'd for years regardless of the details and complexities of which the statement might be applicable and shove it in these folks faces making something akin to a demand.. what is your aim dude?

Well, frg_Away, I guess I have to let testing take its toll then.

tomman: I prefer warp cores

No demand, just wondering, we talked about it formerly long time ago.

So I'm like, why not just turn those extra things off.

IanN_Away: multi-modal reflection sorting

I'll wait for the JavaScript coprocessor card

Well, many of the other browsers makes all these... programs, dividing things up.

seamonkey does not.

IanN_Away: you can use that to detect the interactive signals that form the basis of the borg collective which seems to operate on a subspace domain similar to a transporter beam .. bonus points if levar burton is having surgery and you get chief o'brien to show up

tomman: I remember 6502 2nd processors

And I have had issues with speed on seamonkey, so I just wonder if it would not help me out running less mouths.

Oh 108 threads: ibb.co/hfc9j6p

it needs MOAR THREADS

and NEVER MORE PROCESSES

well

all the threads

you need threads to make a tapastry!

frg_Away: mine only has 73 threads

I'll have to test it and see if it feels faster then I guess.

need to go to the store to buy more threads

maybe some needles too

JGod-P666-15: technology doesn't care about your feelings

JGod-P666-15: more threads won't fix the problem with modern websites: dozens of megabytes of JavaScript framework vomit

Well 3 processes would be nice. One for Chrome, one for gpu and one for content. Everything else is overkill and just complicate things.

that is why you should never turn your life over to it

fix webdev, not browsers

alas, that ship has sailed :/

frg_Away: how much fucking pain was it when they added OOPP

Not sure if the Windows scheduler puts the threads on different cores.

and ever since then ipc has been utter horseshit

if i had the ability I'd get rid of ipc completely, plugins would be in process, and yeah

i want that chromium code out of MY codebase

oOo

that

my codebase

windows scales better than it used to, but other OSes mostly do it better

that may the the first time I have said that without thinking about it before hand

Well on Windows 7...

frg_Away: bring back OS/2?

hmm I can preoritize Seamonkey 2, that should give it some more juice I guess.

Anyone knows the last setting, if that is any good, realtime???

hell i can't even fork 1.9.2 it has ipc

i think i'd literally have to go to 1.8.1 or 1.9.0 to get a PURE codebase to fork

tomman I'm talking about less threads, turning off hyper treading not getting more.

wat

that's now how threads work!

hey.. anyone remember how to compile 1.9.0 and 1.8.1?

we will just throw the past 15 years away like a bad dream and start back at xpfe

IanN_Away That ship has sailed like everything IBM did. Not enough years left for me to see it becoming great again even if they restarted it now. Decommissioned my OS/2 hardware last year and now only in a vm.

frg_Away: CP/M then? :P

frg_Away: TELL ME HOW TO MAKE OS/2 WORK IN A VM

DO IT NOW

i mean

please when you get time...........

VirtualBox supports it... more or less

but i use vmware

frg_Away you fixed the restore feature yet, so no one loses any tabs? I just lost a bunch in Opera.... Like no browser have a safety for this.

I just installed windows 2000 pro by the way :)

JGod-P666-15: yeah.. i been doing that since 1999

I have 2 processors in the SlimClient.

literally

i install windows 2000 once a year since I got vmware

around version 5

4 maybe

i might have been on windows 2000 at the time

still

Well, this is without.... directly to the machine.

i know how to make a win2k wim

I just got the graphics somewhat working, at least the 2D

using /makelocalsource and bootmgr to chain to setupldr which replaces with ntldr during blue text mode

windows is easy in vmware

dunno, not a programmer

lrn2code

Just a stupid user.

lrn2code

It took me days to get passed the installation issue of windows 2000, just stalled or gave me the blue screen.

NewTobinParadigm well you use Acronis to clone you harddisk and put it in virtualbox: ibb.co/xS9NNfh

took me 3 days to get more then 640*480 in resolution... 7 hours ago or so, I got it sorted.

i spent 36 hours copying files from a zip disk cause i forgot to start smartdrv once hen i had to do it on a laptop without an optical drive

windows setup sat there for 36 hours copying files

Absolute Linux is actually very close to windows 2000 in interface.

I should really test OS/2 someday

It's based on some kind of....

how well it runs on early 2000s-era IBMs?

have a T40 and a Thinkcentre M50 here

low resources

try it out.

for old machines

just need seamonkey

I think the user must have been a former w2k user.

or the creator of the Linux Distro

he also have a smart live, easy install and all.

remembers its settings as well... persistant.

I don't know why he would not have SeaMonkey on it... Maybe it is not created for this Linux thing.

he have 3 other browsers by default in it.

tomman OS/2 last good was the T42 maybe T43. Real hardware around 2003. Used the smp version with the early dual xeons. Asus P2B-D P3 and for the Xeons the NCCH-DL. Supermicro X6Dxx also ok but needs much tweaking. Best cards are ATI X800 and 9800. 850 oney have problems with the dos box.

both IBMs here are from 2003, although the Thinkcentre has been beefed up with a HD2600

I have bought a SlimClient, it runs on 3-7 watts power! :)

Comes with WES7

now running Windows 2000, although still working on it.

I have freed it with a WES7 vanilla

and released the key

and updated the installation with ICE tool

and found all the drivers for it updated.

and nearly slipstreamed all of the drivers and updates with installation.

have taken me weeks.

tomman an X1300 was the last card supposed to work but I over got one wirking in a T60. Can do vesa only and I never tried this.

all those loop wholes from MegaSucks.

If you guys need a cheap low resource machine, you can get a Dell N03D I have the updates and all for futher "easy" setup.

3-7 watts.

I don't think you can get much lower in watts....

It can do up to 16GB RAM, yet 8 GB should be more then enough as the CPU is to slow to really use up more, at least it takes it toll so a Swap file should be fine for the rest....

2 kernels.

No fan

and 1 usb 3.0 plug and 3 usb 2.0

here it is the 3290 version: parkytowers.me.uk/thin/wyse/3030

You can extract the legal WES7 key from it with a tool.

And old Intel Graphics and Celeron. Both thinks to pass :)

If anyone wants help on it, to try it out... I'm here.

frg_Away 3-7 watts.

Sure, it does not run quick quick quick... but... I need to go off grid and have someone low using electricity.

These usually use an slic 2.1 oem key and not a real key

frg_Away key working with WES7 64 and 32 bit

:)

yes on any Dell using the same slic but not on a different system.

frg_Away I have weeks on work on my WES7 installation and drivers, I have it all - if anyone needs it.

If it has an slic 2.1 you could even use Windows Ultimate 7 with it.

I have not tested if the key works on other things.

I can only install WES7 systems with the key.

32 bit and 64bit works

I have not tested the key on OTHER computers.

I have tested the key on other systems on the slim device and only the WES 32 and 64 works.

I have NOT

tested

then on the slim device... oh I'm getting tired apparently.

making to many mistakes here.

WES7 32 and 64 bit vanilla works on the Slim Client.

I extracted the key from the locked Dell system

with an application

As my Home Prem version does not work on other things as it is locked on the hardware

So...

But the Slim Client is cheap, you get a legit key for WES7 and it is without a Fan and it is very low powerusage.

3-7 watts usually.

if you are really pressing it you can some times reach +10 watts but very seldom.

Anyway.... I'm here for help if anyone wanna look into it, I've used weeks to gather the drivers and update the WES7, slipstreaming most of it.

hack the planet....

So I'm been looking into low resource linux systems as well, and at the moment trying to get windows 2000 up and running...

Will be a project that will take weeks so... I don't know.

At the moment Windows 2000 does not see my 2 kernels and my 16 gb of RAM is not used.

The sound does not work yet...

The graphic now works for 2D at least giving me the option of high resolution.

although this is somewhat of a secondary hack thing for old unsurported graphics.

It uses the Intel HD Graphics and the drivers for Windows are crap unfortunately. I own a Thinkpad x201 with the same card and it is working but has it share of problems. Might be better suited for Linux. Moved to the X230 and the HD4000 because of graphics problems in Virtual box.

As for key checking I use github.com/Superfly-Inc/ShowKeyPlus/releases.

but better then running 6480*680

frg_Away I'll take a look on the app, I found the free option of: magicaljellybean.com

started out with something costing money and ended up....

well... I did wrong... very bad of me.

But I found the free option afterwards.

and maybe your solution is another free alternative, I will have a look, might be better to added that to the portable app collection I am making.

frg_Away But just not easy to find a low power usage computer running on 12 volts, and it needs to run off my battery which it does now.

Runs from the Car plug in the battery :)

and the battery heals by the solar panels.

although not that much.... worst conditions really...

but I will need to use things less.

But in any case if anyone wanted to buy one of the devices and have a project... I can help on a lot of things, so you get a fully updated WES7 quickly.

and drivers

At least the older Thinkpads have a car adapter too.

Dunno.... I'm looking into a low resource screen as well.

seems ASUS AH might be the way to go.

says around 3-4 watts I think.

In any case, we will see how it goes on Windows 2000 on this slim device as the weeks go.

also need to test AHCI vs.... that other thing.

IDE!

I will need to test if there really is any difference, I don't think there will be much of a differnce.

but will try to install windows 7 with IDE and test it vs my WES7 with AHCI

but.... overall... it is SSD disks.

so I don't think it really matters much beside IDE is able to make older systems run like Windows 2000

Not been able to install w2k with AHCI...

I guess I need a A drive as, at least the slip does not seem to work.

anyone know if one can make a USB work as a old Disk drive?

tricking the installation maybe?

i found something called VESA drivers for the w2k for 2d graphics

Thrre is a big difference if you use an SSD. Also for normal use much better and lower cpu usage. If it has an slic 2.1 I would put a regular Win 7 x64 Pro on it. Just needs to generic dell oem key and cert. MS might not approve but you can always buy a oem license cheap and tack it on. WES7 is a bit limited.

Well... I have the WES7 key and system now... so...

Not much of a difference overall...

Well, IDE or AHCI.... is the options to chose from. I will test it out at some point with the same kind of SSD and see the result.

search for slic activation. Prior to 8 no unique keys were embedded in the bios. You could even activate a server license this way for free. One reason MS got rid of it with 8 and slic 3.0.

usb is apparently 3.1 and not 3.0

....

dunno...

I just got the key extracted.

I would think the key is unique.

for every single Slim client of this kind.

you download the Dell system and then extract the key before it locks the system.

nope not for 7.

Bios had an slic 2.1 marker in the acpi table. You add the generic dell cert and generic serial via slmgr.vbs and if all 3 match Windows activates without internet access. They still od it for the servers this way. slic 2.2 is Server 2012 till 2.6 2022

well I would not expect to get the same key extracted if I do it on another Dell of the same kind.