12:37:03 <hyc> anyone notice that 2.53.14 process doesn't exit when you Quit?
12:51:37 <frg_Away> hyc no works. If you use NoScript 5.19 takes 8 seconds.
12:51:44 <njsg> hyc: which platform? any specific site?
13:39:45 <hyc> plain old x86-64 linux
13:40:07 <hyc> I've got a dozen tabs open, not sure if it's site dependent
13:48:08 <njsg> hyc: so question one is what frg said: does it eventually terminate? if not, then see if you can reproduce if you start it anew and don't open any site, if possible try also with a different, blank profile
13:48:46 <hyc> yeah will try with a blank profile
13:50:49 <njsg> it's possible for the seamonkey process to get in a state where it doesn't terminate, after visiting some site, possibly triggered by features the visited page uses, and that might have been fixed meanwhile (I'm not sure I know how to reliably reproduce this...)
13:51:28 <tomman> njsg: oh, I've had that happen too in very rare occasions
13:51:51 <JamminUnit> Had this with older seamonkey releases (some early 2.53.x versions) but not with recent ones.
13:51:53 <tomman> yep, like session.json getting "corrupted", that's one of those "once in a blue moon" hard to replicate biugs
13:52:27 <tomman> thankfully it happens to me like.. once or twice a year?
13:52:34 <njsg> at least sometimes that'd also go in hand with CPU usage, so the process would not terminate and would be using CPU
13:53:00 <hyc> new blank profile exits cleanly
13:53:22 <JamminUnit> To me it happened everytime I was closing seamonkey. But only with said early 2.53.x versions.
13:53:24 <njsg> but it's also possible something else is going on, say, if you're using a window manager that somehow hid a SeaMonkey window
13:54:09 <njsg> I've only seen anything like that rarely, but I don't really run many web page scripts in my main profile
13:55:20 <hyc> fresh start with my original profile exited cleanly. maybe all the tabs hand't loaded yet
15:18:35 <NewTobinParadigm> njsg: depends if 56 including patches is still vulnerable to ghost windows most notedly with sites like youtube.com and github.com specifically
15:19:47 <NewTobinParadigm> where some script likely spawning a worker stays spinning and leaking memory LONG LONG LONG after you closed the tab or winder
15:20:34 <NewTobinParadigm> eventually leading to increasing cpu usage for no raisin and gigs of ram
15:20:44 <NewTobinParadigm> over some hours mind you
15:21:17 <NewTobinParadigm> not something like some OTHER sites that bog the main thread down and it takes minutes for it to fully release
15:21:53 <NewTobinParadigm> UXP and the Aura Runtime Environment is subject to the ghost window issue
15:22:34 <NewTobinParadigm> and there seems to be no /easy/ solution without undesirable refactoring or just living with it.. My solution? A restart menu item.. fuck it realities of the life I have chosen lol
15:23:00 <NewTobinParadigm> frg_Away njsg JamminUnit tomman
15:26:56 <NewTobinParadigm> add other bs like noscript which is Known to Cause Issues(tm) and those fun fun nsLayout dom spidermonkey appshell docshell and xre plus xpcom all being special snowflakes on shutdown and seamonkey session store being not as .. solid as virtually the same code was 10 years ago due to surrounding changes in untested conditions because Mozilla never tests anything but firefox and seems like that hasn't been true in any tangible sense since the
15:26:57 <NewTobinParadigm> plandemic
15:29:49 <hyc> sigh... mozilla focusing down to firefox was such a gross decision
15:30:44 <JamminUnit> Mozilla made a buttload of bad decisions in the last couple of years.
15:34:07 <NewTobinParadigm> JamminUnit: only the last COUPLE of years.
15:36:49 <NewTobinParadigm> hyc: It would have been far better and more productive if they continued to embrace true diversity and independant thought that created all this shit and we all work together in common cause for the betterment of us all.. but nop communist dystopia is super fuckin trendy so nop
15:37:27 <NewTobinParadigm> so those of us that can be fuckin bothered to put up a fight do so and continue in whatever vision they see fit in total resistance to what Mozilla has done
15:37:33 <hyc> dystopia yes, but I think it was more capitalist than communist
15:37:36 <JamminUnit> NewTobinParadigm: at least the last ten years. Better? :D
15:37:45 <NewTobinParadigm> and that will only ever get us so far.. but i am gonna see JUST how far.
15:38:06 <NewTobinParadigm> try 2006 on with the users starting to feel it in 2008
15:38:28 <NewTobinParadigm> comm certainly did
15:38:36 <NewTobinParadigm> i was witness
15:38:56 <hyc> but yeah, seamonkey still degrades over time, after hours or days it starts getting nonresponsive, CPU use goes over 100%, and then I do a quit and all the windows close but the process is still alive
15:39:57 <hyc> I suppose I can try to snapshot this profile and save the set of tabs, then try closing other tabs 1 by 1
15:41:09 <NewTobinParadigm> the worst issues in seamonkey from a day to day user perspective I see is the mailnews composer and the virtual pointlessness in this day and age to keep shipping the composer component.. as long as SeaMonkey is still proper xul the editor UI bits specific to seamonkey could easily be made into an extension and given to the comm..unity to maintain from then on and eliminate a bit of barely serving a point maintaince burdon
15:41:52 <hyc> why is that pointless? I mean, I use it every day to compose emails
15:41:54 <NewTobinParadigm> of course for Borealis i ditched mailnews component and when I did Interlink I used thunderbird but thunderbird's appcode has different issues despite it nearly all working 100%
15:42:11 <NewTobinParadigm> the composer as in the html editor
15:42:35 <NewTobinParadigm> composer is the pseudo-common component/product name for that bit
15:43:10 <NewTobinParadigm> Navigator, MailNews, Composer, Inspector (DOMi), irc (Chatzilla), etc
15:43:12 <NewTobinParadigm> heh
15:43:19 <NewTobinParadigm> my mozhistory is second to some
15:44:28 <NewTobinParadigm> now the common bits ui wise for the editor component which the backend bits are used across the board the UI bits are comm-specific now..
15:44:52 <NewTobinParadigm> therube: ebureht
15:46:46 <therube> helo NewTobinParadigm.  what means ebureht ?
15:47:10 <NewTobinParadigm> therube: read it backwards
15:47:26 <NewTobinParadigm> how are you dude lol
15:48:05 <therube> heh. i laugh cause i tried that 1st., but it just didn't click.
15:48:20 <NewTobinParadigm> HEY frg_Away MARK YOUR CALENDAR.. I ADMITTED THAT WHILE MY MOZHISTORY IS AWESOME THERE MIGHT EXIST SOME WITH SUPERIOR KNOWLEDGE
15:50:19 <NewTobinParadigm> You know.. JUST CAUSE it doesn't get super cold in the south for half of fall, winter, and half of spring doesn't mean it doesn't EVER GET COLD HERE AND WHY WINDOWS SHOULD HAVE A HALFWAY DECENT R-VALUE
15:51:14 <NewTobinParadigm> i picked up a 20 dollar space heater cause these .. it is like they aren't even there some nights when it gets cold
16:03:40 <frg_Away> NewTobinParadigm I leave speculation about superior knowledge to the deity of the day :) As for composer it is still in use and as long as it does not cause major grief maintaining it it can stay. Spilltting it into an extension takes time and knowledge. I am short on both and so are we as a group unfortunately.
16:06:04 <NewTobinParadigm> i still want to do a standalone composer and attempt to bring in features from kompozer and bluegriffin
16:08:02 <NewTobinParadigm> frg_Away: i wonder how much of a burdon mailnews core and co are on efficency if those bits of the code are never accessed and the service contracts aren't registered
16:08:31 <NewTobinParadigm> i also wonder if I can register a factory for a binary xpcom component in javascript.
16:09:15 <hyc> if you want to turn off mailnews, why aren't you jsut using firefox? i use seamonkey to have mailnews+browser
16:11:08 <frg_Away> As far as I see it not much. I have my mail in a separate vm with SeaMonkey. My daily browser is not using mail parts and I don't see any allocations for it in about memory. A crap site like ebay uses more resources in a second or two. I really love the mail and browser integration where I use it and if SeaMonkey ever goes down I will migrate to Vivaldi.
16:12:23 <hyc> oh, never heard of them
16:13:13 <hyc> freeware but not open source? too bad
16:16:19 <frg_Away> Well source is published but not daily. tarballs only I think. You could probably fork it. One or two times I thought about it ripping out copyrighted parts and slapping the SeaMonkey theme on it. It is the closest thing to SM I have seen yet in the Chromium world.
17:48:20 <therube> http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3103356
17:48:22 <therube> > If you don't know what this is all about don't bother. All is well.
17:48:24 <therube> Count me in that group. A /little/ explanation might have helped ;-).
17:54:24 <neko_the_gamer> is seamonkey only in english?
17:54:32 <neko_the_gamer> seriously?
17:54:50 <frg_Away> therube as stated if you don't compile yourself don't bother :)
17:55:11 <frg_Away> neko_the_gamer no available in 23 languages
17:55:46 <therube> neko_the_gamer: pick your language, https://www.seamonkey-project.org/releases/
17:58:22 <neko_the_gamer> therube oh... how do i download the version with the language i need if it's gonna erase my data on seamonkey right now?
17:59:57 <neko_the_gamer> is there a way to back up it?
18:01:28 <frg_Away> neko_the_gamer Changing languages will not erase anything. You can back up your profile.
18:01:46 <neko_the_gamer> how do i back up my profile?
18:02:02 <neko_the_gamer> frg_Away
18:04:02 <frg_Away> http://kb.mozillazine.org/Profile_folder_-_SeaMonkey
18:05:41 <frg_Away> Locate the profile folder (There is also a Open Folder Button/link in Help->Troubleshooting information) then close SeaMonkey and use you favorite archiver or backup tool.
18:08:24 <neko_the_gamer> frg_Away can't i copy the folder?
18:08:37 <frg_Away> yes you can
18:08:41 <neko_the_gamer> and also i don't personally know any backup tool
18:09:11 <frg_Away> I usually use just zip -r to do it.
18:09:14 <tomman> neko_the_gamer: just zip the entire folder
18:09:24 <tomman> and copy that zip to somewhere safe
18:09:45 <tomman> in fact even if everything works fine, get used to do regular backups of your profile dir just in case
18:09:59 <tomman> as part of your regular backups policy (you DO make backups, right?)
18:10:00 <neko_the_gamer> aight i'll try
18:10:15 <neko_the_gamer> if i start messaging again here it worked
18:10:32 <tomman> having said that, switching languages will not touch your profile, in fact, that has been supported since the Early Times
18:12:44 <neko_the_gamer> tomman oh so i can install the italian version on top of the regular download i'm using right now?
18:13:35 <tomman> neko_the_gamer: you don't even need to reinstall, just install the separate langpack (available on the releases page if you scroll down a bit), and switch them at will from Edit->Preferences
18:13:59 <tomman> you can have as many langpacks as you wish.
18:14:14 <tomman> frg_Away: do langpacks autoupdate too, or do I need to keep track of those for releases?
18:14:33 <neko_the_gamer> tomman ohhhhhhhh i'm so stupid
18:14:38 <tomman> neko_the_gamer: alternatively you can uninstall your current version, and install the new one in your language
18:14:53 <tomman> be aware that uninstalling it won't touch/delete your profile either
18:15:01 <tomman> so that's a perfectly safe operation to do too
18:15:13 <frg_Away> tomman they do not auto update currently. usually I prefer the full installer. less hassle.
18:16:05 <neko_the_gamer> tomman nah i'll prob need to have to languages at hand in case i need them
18:17:12 <neko_the_gamer> also how do i install language packs?
18:17:18 <neko_the_gamer> tomman
18:18:11 <tomman> neko_the_gamer: download the language pack and save it to your machine (it will be an .xpi file)
18:18:22 <tomman> then File->Open file.., locate the .xpi file
18:18:28 <tomman> confirm the install prompt
18:18:36 <tomman> then follow the following instructions to activate it: https://www.seamonkey-project.org/releases/langpack-notes/2.0
18:19:38 <neko_the_gamer> activated
18:19:42 <tomman> if you go that way, remember that you will need to manually update your langpacks every time there is a new SeaMonkey release (since langpacks won't autoupdate)
18:20:04 <tomman> otherwise you will notice weird bugs, or your interface will revert to English (or whatever else)
18:20:26 <neko_the_gamer> ok, at least it's not that hard to do
18:20:52 <neko_the_gamer> anyway i activated the langpack, now i just have to restart seamonkey right?
18:21:18 <frg_Away> tomman they should deactive themselves and fall back to en-US / full installer lnguage. Strict version check.
18:21:47 <tomman> neko_the_gamer: yeah, you need to restart it so the new langpack kicks in
18:26:36 <neko_the_gamer> back
18:26:57 <neko_the_gamer> btw i have a question: is there a tracker blocker addon for seamonkey?
18:34:22 <neko_the_gamer> hello?
18:34:29 <neko_the_gamer> anyone?
18:35:34 <tomman> neko_the_gamer: I'm not familiar with tracker blocker addons since I do all my junk-blocking DNS-side
18:35:46 <neko_the_gamer> damn
18:36:15 <neko_the_gamer> it's possible? i can't imagine the process behind it...
18:36:30 <frg_Away> If you use NoScript and uBlock usually not much left tracking you.
18:56:20 <neko_the_gamer> is there a way to get picture in picture mode for videos in Seamonkey?
19:00:40 <neko_the_gamer> i need answers pls
19:24:35 <frg_Away> picture in picture is not yet supported
20:06:26 <neko_the_gamer> guys is there a way to get picture in picture mode for videos in Seamonkey?
20:09:20 <frg_Away> picture in picture is not yet supported
20:10:29 <tomman> what the hell is "picture in picture" and why web browsers have to support it now?
20:11:34 <neko_the_gamer> tomman picture in picture is essentially being able to put a video in a small window that can be dragged around the monitor
20:11:46 <neko_the_gamer> useful for people with one screen
20:11:53 <tomman> oh
20:12:08 <tomman> and here is where this dinosaur comes and says "just open your video on VLC/mpv"
20:12:44 <tomman> Can see the usecase, but I'm still of the idea that videos do not belong to web browsers, but I digress
20:18:57 <neko_the_gamer> yeah honestly i should install mpv
20:19:17 <neko_the_gamer> if i'm looking to move to seamonkey full time
20:20:24 <tomman> mpv+yt-dl(p) gives the superior experience for streaming video
20:20:37 <tomman> as a bonus, you spare the experience of YouTube Comments™
20:20:50 <tomman> and YouTube UI Experiments®
20:50:22 <neko_the_gamer> tomman yt-dl? what is that?
20:50:43 <neko_the_gamer> if it's a linux command i can't use it i'm on windows :P
20:51:00 <tomman> it's a separate program that mpv uses to be able to stream videos from YouTube (among other places)
20:51:07 <tomman> and it's also available for Windows
20:51:20 <neko_the_gamer> how to install?
20:51:55 <neko_the_gamer> tomman
20:52:17 <neko_the_gamer> nvm found out
20:52:46 <tomman> you just throw both executables on the same folder and you're set
20:56:23 <neko_the_gamer> tomman the yt-dl and mpv?
20:56:41 <neko_the_gamer> in a different folder from what they were installed? together?
20:57:29 <neko_the_gamer> also i can't drag yt link onto mpv ;-;
20:57:36 <neko_the_gamer> *links