02:34:45 <NewTobinParadigm> there http://xr.binaryoutcast.com/
02:35:01 <NewTobinParadigm> and http://xrchive.binaryoutcast.com/
02:35:21 <NewTobinParadigm> cross-reference archive.. xrchive
04:54:14 <NewTobinParadigm> frg: I have put comm under mozilla for mozilla-central as a test.. gonna do that for seamonkey like i said.. THAT way you can xref between release and central str8 up and UXP I guess .. most of my files aren't in their traditional cvs locations tho
07:06:59 <NewTobinParadigm> there seamonkey-2.53 and mozilla-central have comm under mozilla
07:23:41 <NewTobinParadigm> hey next year would you guys perhaps would like some new site software written just for you based on my php stuff?
08:58:22 <njsg> NewTobinParadigm: no idea re: jcrammer, sorry
08:58:43 <NewTobinParadigm> it was 61.0a1
08:59:57 <NewTobinParadigm> but I think I am gonna add comm as a comm directory from 1.9.1 on
09:00:38 <NewTobinParadigm> just so on the xrchive all the files are where they are across all the trees
09:00:55 <NewTobinParadigm> njsg: do you ever use the cross-reference?
09:05:53 <njsg> not currently, but I'll probably end up using it often
13:48:28 <NewTobinParadigm> frg_Away: so you see mah messages?
13:58:05 <frg_Away> NewTobinParadigm Yeah was/are on real life and work issues the last week so didn't do much. Personally 90%+ of my work currently  is code. Appreciate the offer but the website works and would rather not invest time here. Feels a bit like Window dressing on the Titanic with the code needs updates first :) Not pretty but does the job. IanN|Away might chime in andf tell me otherwise.
13:59:28 <NewTobinParadigm> well more so the xr changes
14:00:01 <frg_Away> NewTobinParadigm They are great. I use this one often for backports and checking stuff. Thanks here.
14:00:10 <NewTobinParadigm> where I shoved all the archived trees elsewhere
14:01:00 <NewTobinParadigm> so that the main xr instance is focused on active trees and all the historical stuff is historically historic
14:02:02 <NewTobinParadigm> I am gonna strip the surrounding template and make the php part of it bridge the two somehow eventually
14:02:18 <frg_Away> Yeah for history I usually sue thg in the tree.
14:02:55 <NewTobinParadigm> well u'd have a fun time going back to research xpinstall using hg alone
14:03:52 <NewTobinParadigm> or say the pre-1.0 build a multinational company who runs a shitty isp forced a once great company they bought to release Netscape 6
14:04:42 <frg_Away> NewTobinParadigm There are three tools I use 90% of the time thg https://www.mercurial-scm.org/release/tortoisehg/ - Total Commander and Notepad++
14:05:01 <frg_Away> The last 2 are probably the reason why I am not on Linux yet.
14:05:30 <NewTobinParadigm> i use a modified mozillabuild package, notepad++, sourcetree 1.5 and no newer, msvc obviously, git..
14:05:59 <NewTobinParadigm> npp and sourcetree need xul clones
14:06:26 <frg_Away> mozillabuild 3.4 but git only for the releases. The hg mq extension is a lifesaver for backporting.
14:06:40 <NewTobinParadigm> i mean a xul git client has to run at LEAST as well as a .net git client
14:07:15 <NewTobinParadigm> my new AuraBuild package will provide a fuckin menu and either operate in 2.2 or 3.4 mode
14:07:29 <NewTobinParadigm> also will have php included for some reason only known to me
14:09:51 <NewTobinParadigm> http://personal.mattatobin.com/image/capture/245402cc-3ad5-450a-b6b9-810b8be0848f.jpg
14:09:59 <NewTobinParadigm> shit
14:10:21 <NewTobinParadigm> http://personal.mattatobin.com/image/capture/f68b793e-8b50-47ce-83aa-fde1cb22692b.jpg
14:10:23 <NewTobinParadigm> there
14:10:29 <NewTobinParadigm> and i been updating tools
14:10:38 <NewTobinParadigm> nsis 7zip etc
14:13:16 <frg_Away> I would try to go the VS2019 at least. That is what I currently use. VS2017 is also ok. Unlie the first mess I made now  better VS2017 backports are already in our esr52 branches. VS2019 is not much different. VS2022 is still unstable but ok in 2.53 too.
14:15:11 <NewTobinParadigm> frg_Away: the difference between 2.2 and 3.x is that the change where the build system uses vswhere instead of the batch files to find vs
14:15:17 <NewTobinParadigm> that's the key difference
14:15:23 <NewTobinParadigm> plus updated 7zip nsis
14:15:25 <NewTobinParadigm> etc
14:15:26 <NewTobinParadigm> lol
14:15:43 <NewTobinParadigm> so no need for the specific version batch files after that
14:15:50 <frg_Away> NewTobinParadigm. I had some fun with variable expansion in makefile I think 3.3 not sure.
14:16:35 <NewTobinParadigm> well moonzilla has done a bunch of work to up the build system and codebase to be building on 2021
14:16:47 <NewTobinParadigm> but still builds currently on 2015
14:16:49 <NewTobinParadigm> str8
14:17:56 <frg_Away> NewTobinParadigm VS2015 support ist gone. from the mozilla trees. Now VS2017 and up. msvc itself support is also gone. So far I was able to keep it.
14:18:09 <NewTobinParadigm> vs support PERIOD is gone
14:18:11 <NewTobinParadigm> from moztrees
14:18:32 <NewTobinParadigm> yeah you did say that
14:18:33 <NewTobinParadigm> yeah
14:18:46 <NewTobinParadigm> I just believe the best compiler is the compiler made for your system
14:18:54 <frg_Away> They still need the tools. The cross compile under Linux is a mess too.
14:19:12 <NewTobinParadigm> i do want to make cross compile work for windows builds just because
14:19:24 <frg_Away> Needs wine blargg... Nothing I am eager to backport.
14:19:26 <NewTobinParadigm> only downside is no shellservice because no helper cause no nsis
14:19:41 <NewTobinParadigm> and no nsis installer either
14:20:52 <frg_Away> VS2019 for ESR52 is here: https://bug1602259.bmoattachments.org/attachment.cgi?id=9114394
14:20:53 <frg_Away> Never checked in. I picked the VS2017 toolset from it because of XP then but if you use 142 you should get the VS2019 compiler.
14:21:00 <NewTobinParadigm> other than that you should get yourself a somewhat poorly optimized build after a few patches
14:21:33 <frg_Away> They use win for nsis and some other stuff.
14:21:43 <NewTobinParadigm> yeah i linked that bug in my research
14:23:00 <NewTobinParadigm> IF you have to go 2019 or newer you are stuck vs as a service anyway so may as well go for the latest (after some saturation time)
14:23:27 <frg_Away> VS2022 is bug 1728988 but only for 2.53.
14:23:49 <NewTobinParadigm> well like I said, Moonchild and co have already done it for UXP.. they backported the mozilla way
14:23:50 <frg_Away> VS2019 and VS2022 community are just like VS2015.
14:24:04 <NewTobinParadigm> I'll do as well but I will go back later and make it not shit
14:24:07 <frg_Away> Just no isos.
14:24:27 <NewTobinParadigm> I will keep a copy on my storage subdomain
14:24:34 <NewTobinParadigm> with the rest of the build tools
14:24:52 <frg_Away> I alrays use an offline layout with 17 and later: D:\Soft\Microsoft\VS2019\vs_community.exe --layout D:\Soft\Microsoft\VS2019\VS2019-16.11 --lang en-US
14:25:15 <frg_Away> So I have something to go back if MS forks up a release again.
14:25:17 <NewTobinParadigm> I also bundled the mapi headers a while back
14:26:30 <NewTobinParadigm> thanks for the command
14:27:05 <NewTobinParadigm> i will make a couple of 7zip archives of 2019 and 2022 and keep em around for us
14:27:28 <NewTobinParadigm> be publicly accessable but NOT publicly browseable so just ask ;)
14:31:24 <NewTobinParadigm> why the hell do i even still build mapi anyway
14:39:19 <frg_Away> NewTobinParadigm I am a packrat. Have everything back to VS2010 I think
14:41:44 <frg_Away> If you update VS20xx to the next minor release you need to clean the tree: D:\Soft\Microsoft\VS2019\vs_community.exe --layout D:\Soft\Microsoft\VS2019\VS2019-16.11 --clean D:\Soft\Microsoft\VS2019\VS2019-16.11\Archive\9487b904-f162-424d-9df4-4c0d320a7c0c\Catalog.json
14:43:28 <frg_Away> MS did document all this. Be aware that you need specific release level installers to fetch the desired branch. The currently available one will always check out VS2022. I still have the ones for 17 and 19 if you need them.
17:34:20 <NewTobinParadigm> frg_Away: I could use a copy of 19 for an unrelated few things.. 2017 is .. who the fuck cares about 2017 outside you guys
17:38:18 <frg_Away> NewToBinParadigm https://www.pinballz.net/custom/frg/vs_community.zip
17:39:09 <frg_Away> NewTobinParadigm let me know when you go it. Installer will downlad latest VS2019 with layout command. About 30 GB
17:48:28 <NewTobinParadigm> i got the zip file
17:49:29 <NewTobinParadigm> frg_Away
17:49:39 <frg_Away> oki
17:57:17 <NewTobinParadigm> now this will download the stuff but not install it
17:58:16 <tomman> can I use Visual Studio 6? :trollface:
17:58:31 <NewTobinParadigm> to compile the codebase?
17:58:34 <NewTobinParadigm> not anymore
17:58:44 <NewTobinParadigm> once
18:04:19 <NewTobinParadigm> this is gonna take forever
18:04:25 <NewTobinParadigm> frg_Away: how large will this get?
18:04:53 <frg_Away> 47,7GB
18:05:07 <NewTobinParadigm> well has to be a way to trim it down after the fact
18:05:10 <frg_Away> The layout takes params but I never bothered.
18:05:24 <NewTobinParadigm> like prep an install consistant with classical mozdev
18:05:40 <NewTobinParadigm> and ditch the rest of the packages
18:12:51 <NewTobinParadigm> i need to figure out how to build the 1.8 and 1.9.x branches again
18:12:58 <NewTobinParadigm> for historical research purposes
18:13:26 <NewTobinParadigm> i found the vs2017 community by some url manip based on a link for a later version
18:13:38 <NewTobinParadigm> also just specifing en-US saves a lot of space apperently
18:14:11 <NewTobinParadigm> basically i believe the commands will only allow what the installer choices are not per-package basis
18:14:13 <frg_Away> Yes otherwise pulls in all languages too.
18:14:21 <NewTobinParadigm> so you can JUST do cpp
18:14:36 <NewTobinParadigm> but I dabble in .net from time to time
18:14:37 <NewTobinParadigm> ..
18:15:01 <NewTobinParadigm> real question is.. can I get 2015 and 2022 to co-exist on the same machine
18:16:42 <NewTobinParadigm> i mean i can vhd clone my machine in a few hours and do it that way but ye
18:16:58 <NewTobinParadigm> PERSONALLY I would like a system with vs2008 through 2022
18:17:12 <NewTobinParadigm> but i think the possibility of THAT functioning is remote as fuck
18:18:28 <tomman> maybe with a bunch of VMs and several TBs of storage
18:18:30 <frg_Away> VS2022 still includes the VS2015 compiler as a package. Just a question of setting up the env then. One of the things that bloats the full package.
18:18:42 <NewTobinParadigm> well frg_Away let's think about this.. IF one is still going to target windows 7.. do you think vs2022 is a wise decision?
18:19:09 <NewTobinParadigm> frg_Away: yeah but how can you configure WHICH visual studio is used
18:19:44 <NewTobinParadigm> cause the codebase especially post-mozillabuild-2.2 it uses vswhere to grab the latest installed
18:19:54 <frg_Away> NewTobinParadigm. Works fine. I am running my SeaMonkey mail in 2008 R2 vm and occasionally try a VS2022 build.
18:20:56 <NewTobinParadigm> well i mean on real hardware
18:21:12 <NewTobinParadigm> and this era of the majority of the code
18:21:16 <frg_Away> NewTobInParadigm. Back magic. This is what I did in the VS2019 patch for esr52. Picked the 141 toolset not the 142. For 2015 you pick 140. But don't ask me for the details. Still a somewhat fake dev :)
18:21:24 <NewTobinParadigm> which visual studio version would produce the best results
18:21:57 <frg_Away> NewTobinParadigm Not sure if VS2022 will install in 7 but the code runs under it for sure.
18:22:02 <NewTobinParadigm> yeah is basically visual studio development pretty much over as it is just cpp std and ui changes and almost nothing else?
18:22:16 <NewTobinParadigm> frg_Away: of course it will run.. but will it run well
18:22:41 <NewTobinParadigm> some compilers just produce suboptimal builds .. especially with mozilla code.. gcc 6 comes to mind
18:24:04 <NewTobinParadigm> easy way is to just compile one of each and throw it through dromaeo.. I am gonna have to learn how to set that back up for my self.. the repo i had it in was under MCP and I don't have a local copy
18:24:32 <frg_Away> Yes. I have installed the VS2022 runtime im 7 real and vm. Usually not bother to bundle the runtime with my local builds. For building I use 2016 most of the time but I regularly test under 7 to 11.
18:25:21 <NewTobinParadigm> well after the Aura Runtime Environment is vs-updated i am gonna redouble my efforts on windows 11 styling
18:25:36 <NewTobinParadigm> i am gonna have to override popup menus at the very least
18:25:52 <NewTobinParadigm> they are disgusting cause the true win32 popup menu styling is disgusting
18:26:23 <NewTobinParadigm> and the widget bullshit is just doing what it was told.. which was seek out native styling and apply it..
18:26:37 <NewTobinParadigm> that worked for about 15 ;)
18:27:29 <frg_Away> 11 is soo much sh*t. The taskbar is total crap and the popup menu is super forked up total cra*p. One reason why I am on Server 2019. Support till 2029. And then I will switch to Server 2022 and get another 2 years. Then hope 2031 is the year of Linux finally but not seeing it.
18:27:35 <NewTobinParadigm> so I will make some stylistic widget styling consideration for Windows 11 continue improving 10.. 8 i think i did the bare minimum to care aboot.. 7's styling is perfect.
18:28:14 <frg_Away> Well if they extend esu 7 might have some life till 2026 left.
18:28:41 <NewTobinParadigm> like evidenced by my recent navigator screenshot.. i will respect native os styling but ONLY to a point. lack or obviously intentional bad styling .. fuck you i am overriding that mandate
18:29:13 <NewTobinParadigm> and that ALONE is why XUL is superior.
18:29:24 <NewTobinParadigm> I can do. anything. I. want.
18:30:04 <NewTobinParadigm> well both downloads are at 37%!
18:30:32 <NewTobinParadigm> so they popup a gui progress window that shows download progress for a cli tool.. wtf is the logic of that
19:02:35 <frg_Away> NewTobinParadigm. First thing I do after any update is to remove all vctip.exe files from the tools dirs. Just phone home ones running during and slowing down the builds. Then gutting Community\Common7\servicehub.config.json and removing anything under servicehub. Don't do it if you want the ui. Final step is to remove the update check in task scheduler. I always do this manually.
19:04:52 <frg_Away> VS2022 installs the Webview Runtime. Bon voyage to this one too if you don't use the ui.
19:28:30 <CaptainTobin> vs_community2017.exe --layout .\VS2017 --add Microsoft.VisualStudio.Workload.NativeDesktop --add Microsoft.VisualStudio.Workload.ManagedDesktop --includeRecommended --lang en-US
19:28:43 <CaptainTobin> is what I am doing same for 2019 and will do for 2022
19:28:51 <CaptainTobin> that should cover legit cases
19:29:02 <CaptainTobin> being desktop native and managed..
19:29:17 <CaptainTobin> aside from cli there are no other targets ;)
19:31:32 <CaptainTobin> OH look under 3 gbs each.. so basically everything not desktop is a million gigs
19:31:34 <CaptainTobin> nice
19:32:33 <frg_Away> CaptainTobin cut the net and try to install. If it works then should be good.
19:33:10 <frg_Away> My install is about 5.5GB unpacked so 3GB sounds ok.
19:33:14 <CaptainTobin> as long as i don't select something not in the layout or use a specific switch
19:33:46 <CaptainTobin> it shouldn't touch the net except for the ridiculous amount of telemetry which i gather is MOST of the code weight anyway
19:34:29 <CaptainTobin> think how fast the base windows win32 system would run if microsoft removed all the telemetry
20:00:30 <CaptainTobin> microzilla
21:57:04 <CaptainTobin> what xulapp was an?
21:57:10 <CaptainTobin> fx sm an
21:57:19 <CaptainTobin> what is an
22:13:23 <CaptainTobin> android?