17:02:22 <knoppix> hello, I 've some bug with Seamonkey Suite
17:02:28 <knoppix> where i can send screenshot ?
17:04:30 <frg_Away> knoppix https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&chfieldfrom=2018-01-01&chfieldto=Now&f1=component&list_id=15949575&o1=notequals&product=SeaMonkey&query_format=advanced&resolution=---&v1=Web%20Compatibility&order=changeddate%20DESC%2Cpriority%2Cbug_severity&query_based_on=
17:06:50 <cabrag> 'it's about faavicon of an mail app
17:07:06 <cabrag> same problem if it;s about chat app
17:11:41 <frg_Away> cabrag which build?
17:12:04 <cabrag> 2.53.13
17:18:06 <frg_Away> Not aware of any general favicon problems. Screenshots to you favorite place. I use ibb.co
17:39:16 <cabrag> https://ibb.co/vq88k3y
17:42:27 <frg_Away> and the problem is?
17:49:53 <NewTobinParadigm> seems moonchild is still trying to spread lies 6 months later https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=28822&p=232031&sid=e5f02f0dc12edcc16bc10a7a9aecc5bb#p232031
17:49:53 <NewTobinParadigm> I have never within the entire time I ran the Add-ons Site either as Add-ons Team Leader or prevented or banned someone from the service unless they broke the rules multiple times... Would I be more likely to go after enemy agents more harshly when they fucked up more than once.. absolutely because I know they are doing it maliciously because if someone can make a proper add-on they can follow the handful of rules associated with it nearly every
17:49:54 <NewTobinParadigm> one also applies to AMO just in different language and they WILL ban for political reasons from AMO.
17:49:56 <NewTobinParadigm> this is a proven documented fact that is evident by anyone not out to specifically destroy me
17:50:23 <NewTobinParadigm> ones that*
18:03:48 <NewTobinParadigm> frg_Away: how is this for OS integration http://personal.mattatobin.com/image/capture/86b3ba09-4b7c-4395-bc49-7cdd86f3ddee.jpg
18:04:31 <NewTobinParadigm> I am considering dropping toolbar grippys tho
18:05:20 <frg_Away> NewTobinParadigm. The icons are way better then the standard care bear movie classic ones but I actually like the white toolbar.
18:05:47 <tomman> at least they're not Flat™ and colorless
18:05:50 <NewTobinParadigm> frg_Away: I hated the white menubar concept but over time it has triggered some SLIGHT nostagia for windows 3.1
18:06:09 <NewTobinParadigm> which i suppose is a damned sight better than windows 8's invocation of windows 2.0 disgust
18:06:33 <NewTobinParadigm> windows 10's msstyle at least has SOME style the thing is they removed style from other places
18:06:50 <NewTobinParadigm> like col headers in tree or list views
18:07:04 <NewTobinParadigm> i added my own subtle styling to improve the ux slightly
18:07:08 <NewTobinParadigm> I have done other bits
18:07:13 <frg_Away> I am on Server 2019 and the whitewash is ok for me here.
18:07:28 <NewTobinParadigm> I want to respect the user's choice in OS by default but there are some tidbits as a designer i can't leave as-is
18:07:54 <NewTobinParadigm> i think it takes a real balancing act to consider both
18:09:05 <NewTobinParadigm> either being totally custom or totally os native stylewise only works in certain circumstances most applications .. not a pun .. require some intuitive design to do more
18:10:39 <NewTobinParadigm> frg_Away: between Interlink and Borealis i have very similar icon sets some of those in interlink are from this set but also older incarnations
18:11:06 <NewTobinParadigm> one day I will either commission or just create a unique BinOC icon set for my applications but for now these are the best imo
18:11:22 <NewTobinParadigm> for how i want it presented
18:13:31 <njsg> how long until they do a Windows UI that reminds of NT 5.0?
18:14:11 <NewTobinParadigm> njsg: while extremely crippled native gdi widgets are still a thing even in windows 11
18:15:15 <NewTobinParadigm> so they could totally do it at a moments notice.. just enable some flags do some fixups set it as default and bam.. chicago ux
18:15:32 <njsg> one thing that's good to have is that with this theming the UI might be able to offer both "native/integrated" and "not modified by the OS" themes (say, SeaMonkey Default vs. Modern)
18:16:18 <njsg> I could appreciate some #d4d0c8 instead of the white :-P
18:16:27 <njsg> (re: MS UI)
18:16:30 <frg_Away> njsg  Windows 11 is the pits. Some color back which I like but taskbar and popup menus total crap among other things. Might move either to Linux or Server 2022 after 2019 unless I am dead by then.
18:16:52 <NewTobinParadigm> I am considering completely overriding the context and popup menu styling for windows 11 .. i would style it like a modern context menu with proper metrics but it would be more compact and not hiding 90% of it
18:17:17 <NewTobinParadigm> basically how the normal context menus SHOULD LOOK
18:17:20 <njsg> frg_Away: 2008R2 can feel confusing enough already, I wish it were possible to force the old common dialogs, for example.
18:17:34 <NewTobinParadigm> first i have to finish windows 11 detection
18:18:11 <NewTobinParadigm> i made a start on it with my update to: https://code.binaryoutcast.com/projects/aura-central/src/TRUNK/system/framework/WindowsVersion.h
18:18:14 <njsg> knoppix was cabrag?
18:18:32 <NewTobinParadigm> which isn't the same as the version mozilla has but was updated with pieces from it
18:19:05 <njsg> I wonder what the problem is, could it be about the resolution of the window icon?
18:19:17 <NewTobinParadigm> https://code.binaryoutcast.com/projects/aura-central/src/TRUNK/system/framework/WindowsVersion.h#L245
18:22:26 <frg_Away> nsg yes
18:23:11 <frg_Away> njsg yes
18:23:23 <NewTobinParadigm> this header also serves as a quick lookup of windows 10/11 versions as i update it heh
18:26:20 <NewTobinParadigm> here is the patch i dunno if it will be helpful to anyone https://code.binaryoutcast.com/projects/aura-central/commit/a4bec583d5cf235730795b7c0093d767d1399d05
18:26:37 <NewTobinParadigm> OH i also need to update media features so i can detect windows 11 for skin reasons
18:27:00 <tomman> don't forget the skin tone modifiers~
18:27:15 <NewTobinParadigm> frg_Away: you do realize that these white menu bars makes me racist right.. cause they are white
18:27:22 <frg_Away> Later nspre now has the information too it seems. Just in the middle of updating to the esr102 versions and added Bug 1633937 as a drive by : https://ibb.co/3NxwrkH
18:27:27 <tomman> or the Tweeters will roast you alive for not respecting UX diversity!
18:27:32 * njsg not sure whether to laugh or headdesk
18:27:44 <NewTobinParadigm> esr one hundred and two
18:27:54 <NewTobinParadigm> frg_Away: what is wrong with this picture?
18:27:58 <njsg> oh, that explains the black and white in the UI
18:28:02 <njsg> it's a tie-in with disney
18:28:05 <njsg> for 101 dalmatians
18:28:14 <NewTobinParadigm> 101 damnations
18:29:26 <frg_Away> NewToBinParadigm Well we still have black color for fonts which I like so it is on a balance. But don't put a guy with a green cap or Winnie the Pooh in or Xi will come after you!
18:29:39 <frg_Away> ^in balance
18:29:52 <tomman> Xinnie the Pooh!
18:30:24 <NewTobinParadigm> does anyone rememeber if they were called themes or skins in netscape?
18:30:40 <njsg> I think themes, but I'd really have to check
18:30:48 <NewTobinParadigm> cba
18:30:52 <tomman> My only experience with Netscape was in the Communicator era (NS4), and back then we didn't had themes
18:31:06 <njsg> I was about to say the VM where I have that is not accessible, but I think I might have another VM which actually has netscape
18:31:22 <NewTobinParadigm> it's ok
18:31:23 <njsg> Oh, I used it, what was it, during the Netscape 7 era?
18:31:26 <NewTobinParadigm> don't go to any trouble
18:31:34 <NewTobinParadigm> yeah ns6+
18:31:47 <njsg> actually, one way to check, let me see...
18:31:51 <frg_Away> Seems to not have regressed something but need to fix some tests and still in the middle of tracking down possible regression bugs: https://ibb.co/FzXBGyW
18:32:06 <NewTobinParadigm> I am likely gonna return some UIs to their netscape or at least refined netscape style
18:32:40 <NewTobinParadigm> frg_Away: what are you trying to do
18:32:43 <NewTobinParadigm> update nss?
18:32:55 <NewTobinParadigm> what platform version
18:33:04 <NewTobinParadigm> the real one not the one you are spoofing
18:33:28 <frg_Away> Yes I just did. real one. Latest ESR102 versions of nss and nspr.
18:33:47 <NewTobinParadigm> onto 56-base?
18:33:54 <frg_Away> Yes
18:33:58 <NewTobinParadigm> you're gonna have a lot of issues
18:34:05 <NewTobinParadigm> maybe not as much as i did
18:34:12 <NewTobinParadigm> but we are kinda close in those regards
18:34:48 <NewTobinParadigm> did you run into any of https://code.binaryoutcast.com/projects/aura-central/issues/3
18:34:51 <NewTobinParadigm> that shit frg_Away
18:35:50 <frg_Away> Nope. We were already at 78 level. Had some fun with the certverifier code but ssl test sites are ok and mail cert is working.
18:36:05 <njsg> not the way I was thinking of using to check, but: https://ia801306.us.archive.org/12/items/NetscapeThemes/Netscape6-2_FogCityPrefs.png https://archive.org/details/NetscapeThemes
18:36:07 <NewTobinParadigm> what version is 78?
18:37:08 <NewTobinParadigm> frg_Away: wait you are saying you with a m-r56 base got nss past 3.64
18:37:12 <NewTobinParadigm> without issue
18:37:17 <frg_Away> 3.53 but 3.54 needs some patches.
18:37:20 <frg_Away> Bug 1648680
18:37:54 <frg_Away> 2.53.14 is still at 3.53.x
18:38:30 <frg_Away> But yes I am now at 3.79. Not yet checked in.
18:38:34 <NewTobinParadigm> ok in seamonkey release what version of nss are you shipping or have gotten to
18:39:38 <frg_Away> Shipped is 3.53.4. 2.53.15 will have 3.79.x unless my patch queue blows up. But I am running this build right now for a few hours already.
18:39:39 <NewTobinParadigm> cause for my platform runtime which orginated from esr52 i was only able to get nss up to 3.64 after getting gyp to handle the build files..
18:40:06 <NewTobinParadigm> or rather the mozbuild gyp consumer
18:40:39 <NewTobinParadigm> frg_Away: how did w95sock affect nss?
18:40:47 <NewTobinParadigm> what sort of issue were you getting?
18:41:14 <NewTobinParadigm> wait unified sources
18:41:18 <frg_Away> NewTobInParadigm Compile errors in nspr 4.27
18:41:49 <NewTobinParadigm> guess I avoided those cause when I rewrote and relocated the lib i took it out of uniifed sources completely
18:42:10 <NewTobinParadigm> well frg_Away you DID help me some tho
18:42:27 <NewTobinParadigm> the answer is either between 52 and 56 or in your repo specifically
18:42:34 <NewTobinParadigm> to move past 3.64
18:42:41 <NewTobinParadigm> thank you dude
18:42:50 <frg_Away> symbol stuff is usually security\nss.symbols. Not sure if already in 52
18:43:04 <NewTobinParadigm> i updated the symbols no problem
18:43:17 <NewTobinParadigm> in fact i kept several exposed that mozilla closed up cause we need em
18:43:35 <NewTobinParadigm> we..
18:43:37 <NewTobinParadigm> I do
18:43:43 <NewTobinParadigm> old habits.
18:43:49 <frg_Away> Yes and comm-central now has its own file.
18:44:11 <NewTobinParadigm> the nss extra symbol shit was in 52 i believe
18:44:17 <NewTobinParadigm> if i remember when i last looked
18:44:50 <NewTobinParadigm> Well now that my platform codebase is my own i don't have to do the comm config anymore
18:45:06 <NewTobinParadigm> tho i am still proud of all the bugs i fixed WITH the orginal comm-setup
18:45:59 <NewTobinParadigm> which is why I am gonna continue offering a comm-base git repo with my sample application
18:47:10 <NewTobinParadigm> with all do respect to jcrammer but his choice to put comm under mozilla was a bad call.. it was far more beneficial to keep the comm-hack as it was im my experience dealing with the build systems
18:47:11 <frg_Away> Well one in a month I think if we should update to central in earnest. Then I look at the mozilla central code or rather the current crap and do some backports instead. Well we keep it still building so option is still open.
18:47:25 <frg_Away> ^once in a month
18:47:54 <NewTobinParadigm> oh keeping central building for better backports even tho you likely won't be shipping it as-is?
18:48:09 <NewTobinParadigm> you know past a point seamonkey can't BE seamonkey anymore
18:48:24 <frg_Away> gui crap telemetry crap newtab crap pocket crap no themes crap and so on.
18:48:40 <NewTobinParadigm> and that is just the past five years
18:48:42 <NewTobinParadigm> LOL
18:48:59 <frg_Away> The installer still works: https://www.wg9s.com/comm-central/
18:49:39 <NewTobinParadigm> well maybe if i persist long enough and don't fall back too far into my complete asshole dalek persona.. maybe you'll join me in the end lol
18:51:09 <NewTobinParadigm> the good thing tho for me frg_Away is if doing shit within a webclient context becomes too impossible .. it doesn't mean i have to trash the whole platform runtime .. just means fuckin browsers are not worth the trouble
18:53:02 <NewTobinParadigm> i really wanna go through the toolkit content and just redo everything
18:53:37 <NewTobinParadigm> I'll call it the Cross-Platform Front End cause that's orginal
18:54:49 <NewTobinParadigm> frg_Away: I wish i could remove JSDownloads
18:55:09 <NewTobinParadigm> but there are some components that rely on them still
18:55:31 <NewTobinParadigm> ever since there was a solution to fix nsDownloads proper i been very very happy
18:55:53 <NewTobinParadigm> on my system downloads are faster with nsDownloads vs JSDownloads
18:56:00 <NewTobinParadigm> always have been
18:56:38 <NewTobinParadigm> likely get rid of the toolkit download ui and just use the communicator one
18:57:14 <frg_Away> It is the usualy mozilla spiel. Remove a mature component and replace it with something missing half the functionality and is buggy. But we made it work and until 10 people show up and want to help out I rather take patches 1:1 these days.
18:57:50 <frg_Away> But no intention to gut about:config and the profile per version stuff among others. There is a line...
18:59:07 <NewTobinParadigm> I guess it is just my destiny to maintain a classical codebase that hasn't been shit up by mozis or moonies
18:59:41 <NewTobinParadigm> i plan next year to put windows arm as a priority
19:00:00 <NewTobinParadigm> tho it would be easier to document and solidfy linux-arm
19:00:40 <NewTobinParadigm> my biggest fear is if microsoft starts requiring authinticode without any way to get around it
19:01:15 <NewTobinParadigm> or worse yet.. restricts the win32 api BASED on code signing
19:01:50 <NewTobinParadigm> where their telemetry shows that the ratio of unsigned applications accessing win32 apis is only this blah blah blah fuck you spend 400 dollars on a cert
19:01:56 <NewTobinParadigm> you know frg_Away
19:02:03 <frg_Away> linux arm is working as far as I know. Windows builds are signed now too but not highest level so block on first sight still applies.
19:02:37 <NewTobinParadigm> I know my codebase can be produced for linux arm with little issue it is just undocumented at that level and i don't currently have the hardware
19:03:21 <NewTobinParadigm> in 2018 and before .. the cross compiling aspect barely works and even if it does there is little info
19:03:42 <NewTobinParadigm> of course since then it has gotten better but only because they wrote new documentation as they were changing how shit worked
19:03:43 <frg_Away> Our build system is now on the way to 78 and much of the arm stuff already in. Just Windows arm is a waste of time right now. Own an M1 mac mini now. If I find some time might see if I can set up a vm.
19:03:46 <NewTobinParadigm> so it doesn't halp me
19:04:37 <NewTobinParadigm> well since Aura Runtime Environment was Goanna Runtime Environment .. mac support is gone
19:05:00 <NewTobinParadigm> bsd support is next
19:05:33 <njsg> 0917|20:00:02 < NewTobinParadigm> where their telemetry shows that the ratio of unsigned applications accessing win32 apis is only this blah blah blah fuck you spend 400 dollars on a cert <-- so, the apple approach? :-P
19:05:37 <NewTobinParadigm> however if someone wants to contribute patches to add a new cleaned up written for this codebase not fucking other targets i'd gladly accept it
19:05:51 <NewTobinParadigm> njsg: it will happen eventually
19:05:51 <frg_Away> back in a minute
19:06:00 <NewTobinParadigm> WindowsS was a test case to see how it would fly
19:06:31 <NewTobinParadigm> obviously it hasn't been done yet but the push to do everything BUT outright prevent you is getting more intense
19:06:45 <NewTobinParadigm> especially when windows 11 defender decided to eat a bunch of my php and bash scripts
19:06:55 <NewTobinParadigm> over the network
19:06:58 <NewTobinParadigm> from a vm
19:07:20 <NewTobinParadigm> njsg: windows 10 major upgrades remove software all the time
19:07:24 <NewTobinParadigm> so yeah
19:07:28 <NewTobinParadigm> it will happen
19:07:30 <njsg> from microsoft I'm currently more concerned with their handling of e-mail :-\
19:07:41 <frg_Away> DidnÄt crash :) No just installed latest build in real hardware.
19:07:54 <NewTobinParadigm> if they will go oauth2 for everything like gmail?
19:08:35 <NewTobinParadigm> btw i hope what few interlink users have left appreciate that i been dragging my feet partly so they can have unrestricted gmail for a while longer without an app password
19:08:55 <NewTobinParadigm> but i HAVE to get rid of thunderbird's key
19:09:05 <NewTobinParadigm> i have known about it specifically for too long as it is
19:09:07 <njsg> NewTobinParadigm: no, they have an "AI" system possibly encompassing all customers with commercial cloud e-mail and exchange online protection that makes some messages not appear in inbox nor in junk, despite having been accepted
19:10:01 <NewTobinParadigm> njsg: That information doesn't exist.
19:10:15 <NewTobinParadigm> njsg: You're clearly delusional. Present yourself to the hospital.
19:10:28 <NewTobinParadigm> right?
19:10:39 <njsg> right
19:11:04 <NewTobinParadigm> heh yeah shit be crazy
19:11:04 <njsg> but yes https://guides.downstate.edu/c.php?g=654922&p=4870487
19:11:42 <frg_Away> I fear the day when gmx goes completely gaga. Don't want to set up my own mail server.
19:11:50 <njsg> maybe a t-shirt with a QR-code with https://protection.office.com/#/quarantine is not a bad idea
19:12:36 <IanN_Away> i'm sure it is completely random what goes into the focused inbox view...
19:13:27 <njsg> oh yes, that's another can of worms, and I've heard some mobile clients don't show the "other" view...
19:14:58 <NewTobinParadigm> https://code.binaryoutcast.com/projects/aura-central/src/TRUNK/libs/nspr/build/pr/moz.build
19:15:01 <NewTobinParadigm> yep
19:15:17 <NewTobinParadigm> i bypassed that one bug cause i already took all of nspr out of unified sources
19:15:31 <NewTobinParadigm> i am gonna rename libs to third_party
19:15:35 <NewTobinParadigm> just make things easier
19:16:26 <NewTobinParadigm> frg_Away: did you realize that there were this many 3rd party libs in the codebase https://code.binaryoutcast.com/projects/aura-central/src/TRUNK/libs/ and that are those thatare still in my codebase
19:18:00 <NewTobinParadigm> I think also I am gonna just integrate the calendar with the application as a normal component
19:18:05 <frg_Away> Yes. Now and then I do an update. Last one was angle up to esr91 I think.
19:18:31 <NewTobinParadigm> frg_Away: not every lib for me can be updated
19:18:43 <frg_Away> For icu and harfbuzz I still want some dependencies in first.
19:19:36 <NewTobinParadigm> for instance.. cairo can't be updated not with the one from m-c
19:20:18 <NewTobinParadigm> on windows the fonts are all fucked up and the same is true in mozilla except it is masked with webrender on
19:20:25 <frg_Away> nss and nspr now apply clean in our tree. Took me 1h hour to export and apply them. Just one configure bit is different. Need to do nss.configure when I fond some time.
19:20:29 <NewTobinParadigm> i had to go in and hack it off to confirm
19:20:52 <NewTobinParadigm> I need to get more out of mozconfigure and back into autohell
19:21:08 <NewTobinParadigm> i simply can't maintain the mozconfigure backend
19:21:19 <NewTobinParadigm> cause of its use of templates and boilerplate shit
19:21:24 <NewTobinParadigm> mozbuild its self
19:21:32 <NewTobinParadigm> eh i can handle it with some frustration and work
19:21:36 <NewTobinParadigm> but mozconfigure
19:21:38 <NewTobinParadigm> fuck no
19:22:05 <NewTobinParadigm> I was in the process of splitting up old-configure.in into multiple files
19:22:11 <NewTobinParadigm> like how moz.configure is
19:24:39 <NewTobinParadigm> frg_Away: I recommend you take these into your tree https://code.binaryoutcast.com/projects/aura-central/src/TRUNK/python/mozbuild/mozbuild/mach_commands.py#L541 https://code.binaryoutcast.com/projects/aura-central/src/TRUNK/build/ppCheck.py
19:24:56 <NewTobinParadigm> it is a lifesaver
19:25:02 <NewTobinParadigm> i wrote it
19:25:06 <NewTobinParadigm> consider it mpl 2.0
19:25:14 <NewTobinParadigm> I'll add the header in a bit
19:28:42 <frg_Away> NewTobinParadigm Will check. I think the current code croaks when a file is preprocessed and has no preprocessor directives but not sure. At least packaging will fail I am sure. But the other way around not so.
19:33:18 <NewTobinParadigm> yeah i made mine warnings again but added this script so i know
19:33:43 <NewTobinParadigm> well like i said i have deemed it mpl
19:33:46 <NewTobinParadigm> so feel free to use it
20:04:09 <NewTobinParadigm> frg_Away: obviously your logic won't be as complex on the mach_commands side because you don't have to potentally deal with multiple comm configurations
20:06:39 <NewTobinParadigm> still with all the autoscripts they run i am surprised they didn't add a script like this long ago
20:07:40 <frg_Away> NewTobinParadigm Will put it somewhere. Might be helpful. Doing some migration work right now for "paid workplace".
20:25:52 <frg_Away> NewToBinParadigm. The nss and nspr stuff is now in for the next prerelease: https://gitlab.com/frg/seamonkey-253-patches/-/commit/0adf4a5145f9c70d74cb5d3b253ee529f7cf67e8
20:26:21 <frg_Away> Still a bit messy and I need to clean up patch names and some tests.
20:26:40 <NewTobinParadigm> byt 53 is esr60
20:26:44 <NewTobinParadigm> what baout 56
20:27:39 <frg_Away> No it is 56. 2.57 is 60 and basically on hold.
20:27:41 <NewTobinParadigm> frg_Away: how much of that is just work on esr60 and what it needs to function
20:27:56 <NewTobinParadigm> oh right sorry
20:28:15 <NewTobinParadigm> frg_Away: why don't you for the next release just match the minor version with the true gecko version
20:28:52 <NewTobinParadigm> 2.56.x 2.60.x etc
20:29:40 <NewTobinParadigm> I plan to keep my minor version sync'd with the milestone platform version.. so shipping as 8.5.XXXX
20:30:27 <frg_Away> NewTobinParadigm Habit and we have 2.53 and 2.57 bugzilla flags. Also some extensions would be unhappy. Updated for 2.53 like DTA.
20:31:06 <frg_Away> 2.57 is here but basically on hold https://gitlab.com/frg/seamonkey-257-patches/
20:31:25 <NewTobinParadigm> i dunno why u'd want to go that high
20:31:30 <NewTobinParadigm> when u'd loose so much
20:31:49 <NewTobinParadigm> you could literally backport more from 60 to 56 than you could restore back to 60
20:31:51 <NewTobinParadigm> reasonably
20:32:02 <NewTobinParadigm> that is my assessment anyway
20:38:16 <frg_Away> That is exactly what we are doing. Take the "good" stuff only.
20:52:11 <NewTobinParadigm> so 2.57 may never become trunk?
21:01:57 <frg_Away> Doubt it. The more I dug into it the worse it became. And the reformatting mozilla does not help. We might reuse the tree and version number later.
21:02:29 <frg_Away> ^reformatting mozilla did
21:07:49 <NewTobinParadigm> oh that applying clang formatting to an established esr branch making diffing virtually impossible on more than a few files
21:08:01 <NewTobinParadigm> yeah that was nice of them wasn't it
21:08:13 <frg_Away> NowTobinParadigm Put the checker under throdparty for now. When we are done with python 3 I think we can move it to build: https://gitlab.com/frg/seamonkey-253-patches/-/commit/518e3d64b0335450b4f97b741322dac7c344d7f9
21:08:25 <NewTobinParadigm> frg_Away: you realize that I am likely not an immesurable factor in why that happened
21:09:00 <NewTobinParadigm> well add an MPL 2.0 header to it when you do
21:09:10 <frg_Away> lets say crap++. I thought about backing it out and just applying the later patches from the tree but life is too short and 2.53 already well into 58a1 and more.
21:09:43 <NewTobinParadigm> so frg_Away you are actually evolving the codebase now
21:09:47 <NewTobinParadigm> i am impressed
21:09:55 <NewTobinParadigm> i didn't realize it had reached that level
21:11:05 <NewTobinParadigm> I wonder if it would be possible to reconcile our technological differences and achieve a unified or at least very close clone of each other
21:11:54 <frg_Away> NewTobinParadigum We are both fanatics :) There are about 16000 patches now in on top of the original 56 level.
21:12:28 <NewTobinParadigm> frg_Away: how mutated is the actual core mozilla functionality
21:12:59 <NewTobinParadigm> and when i say mozilla functionality or technology i mean the real shit not 2010s nonsense
21:14:59 <frg_Away> lately hard with webrender and all the crackpot stuff. Most stuff in is between 57 and 64 with later sec patches and a few other backports. What is in is mostly 1:1 if possible.
21:15:00 <NewTobinParadigm> so here is a theoretical.. IF i were to say want to restore and make useful core nsDownloads again but not cripple jsdownloads would you guys allow it?
21:15:36 <NewTobinParadigm> do you build with rust?
21:16:54 <NewTobinParadigm> you know.. if stylo IS in play.. we could resolve the xbl/xul conflicts with html etc by merely forbidding webcomponents within a xul document
21:17:10 <NewTobinParadigm> frg_Away: unless you have backported the html and xul document merging
21:17:17 <NewTobinParadigm> which i hope you haven't
21:18:15 <frg_Away> Personally I would rather fill the gaps in jsdownloads. nsDownloads could go on top again but I think it would be rather hard to maintain. Much of the stuff now is async.
21:18:39 <NewTobinParadigm> right the async bs
21:18:47 <NewTobinParadigm> overcomplicating everything
21:19:23 <frg_Away> We are working hard to make stylo happen. It is mostly broken right now because of an outdated cssparser and bindgen. Rust is so bad and changes all the time.
21:19:45 <NewTobinParadigm> c++ as javascript
21:19:48 <NewTobinParadigm> that is rust
21:19:50 <NewTobinParadigm> in a nutshell
21:19:57 <NewTobinParadigm> including the constantly changing standard
21:20:08 <frg_Away> xul html merge will not happy anytime soon if ever in the 2.53 codebase. Would break the world.
21:20:10 <tomman> CLOSED WONTFIX USECHROME HEALTYSTANDARDS
21:20:23 <NewTobinParadigm> not JUST javascript but mozilla javascript mixed with mozilla python and modern mozilla c++
21:20:41 <tomman> also isn't Mozilla these days lifting Chrome code wholesale for some of the Javascript bits?
21:20:42 <NewTobinParadigm> frg_Away: it should NEVER happen
21:20:47 <frg_Away> Personally I like async. Promises is not my cup of tea.
21:20:48 <NewTobinParadigm> they are only doing it as a stop gap
21:21:19 <NewTobinParadigm> like how windows 8 or 10 has a modern settings page but links to half a dozen different control panel property sheets that have exited for 25 years
21:21:24 <frg_Away> Well the latest stuff is now the jsm to esm conversion.
21:21:46 <NewTobinParadigm> well yeah i knew Mozilla JS Modules wouldn't last
21:21:56 <NewTobinParadigm> i have no intention on dropping jsm support
21:22:14 <NewTobinParadigm> application code should make sense in the application context not in html context
21:22:24 <NewTobinParadigm> esm tho
21:22:29 <NewTobinParadigm> good they defined an extenion
21:22:30 <frg_Away> My 8.1 has classic shell menu and I donÄt seem much of the modern stuff there. Server 2019 is still halfway sane with it too.
21:22:43 <NewTobinParadigm> frg_Away: but you know what i mean
21:22:54 <frg_Away> yes
21:23:16 <NewTobinParadigm> merging xul into html was just a shortcut to switch to html and just namespace all the xul bits while you piss around replacing shit with inferior copies
21:24:23 <njsg> NewTobinParadigm: I think that's just the current approach to discoverability in Windows. Windows 4.10 /NT 5.0 era had perhaps more of a hierarchy, and stuff visible in folders and menus, Windows nowadays appears to be a bunch of names you're expected to get to from the start menu search and from the "related links" part
21:24:46 <NewTobinParadigm> yeah
21:25:00 <NewTobinParadigm> just more everything must be the web
21:25:06 <NewTobinParadigm> and the web must be everything
21:25:11 <njsg> you'd open control panel and see stuff there, on one hand it had no categories, but OTOH, it fit nicely in the visual UI of icons in folders, and it was often easy to spot things at a glance
21:25:17 <NewTobinParadigm> instead of shit that does a few things well
21:25:20 <frg_Away> and thru "helpful" microsoft services which get all you data as a byproduct.
21:25:47 <njsg> hey, how else are they going to feed SmartScreen to correctly identify threat e-mails!?
21:26:01 <NewTobinParadigm> http://personal.mattatobin.com/image/capture/1e2bae99-a8c1-4f63-b07d-62886b9fe71a.jpg
21:26:12 <NewTobinParadigm> that is my start menu
21:27:53 <NewTobinParadigm> frg_Away: this is the submenu from the control panel item http://personal.mattatobin.com/image/capture/b66d427a-517f-490a-a8ae-7722d238d93d.jpg
21:28:06 <NewTobinParadigm> currently those are items not normally accessable or just harder to find
21:28:14 <NewTobinParadigm> i need to add the rest
21:29:01 <NewTobinParadigm> how do you like it frg_Away
21:30:05 <frg_Away> Clean. I rarely use mine. Build stuff is in a vm and a few icons on the desktop is 99% I use.
21:30:23 <njsg> I had to add a toolbar to have shortcuts for SM builds
21:30:30 <njsg> because I was running out of desktop space :-P
21:30:41 <frg_Away> https://ibb.co/Dwj0YqY
21:30:45 <NewTobinParadigm> that new winders terminal is pretty nice
21:30:47 <NewTobinParadigm> for a change
21:30:57 <NewTobinParadigm> i mean it is 15 years too late
21:31:01 <NewTobinParadigm> but it is nice to have
21:31:03 <njsg> and then I've discovered desktop toolbar support in Win NT 6.1 does not compare to Win 4.10
21:31:26 <NewTobinParadigm> heh.. MAYBE I will use openconsole from windows terminal and build a XUL Windows Terminal
21:31:34 <NewTobinParadigm> and make it cross platform for linux as well
21:32:30 <frg_Away> I found them all lagging when scrolling so I am still on cmd.exe. But 99% using Total Command for system stuff anyway. This one and Notepad++ are my top 2.
21:32:43 <frg_Away> ^Total Commander
21:33:04 <NewTobinParadigm> well it won't run on windows 8.1
21:33:14 <NewTobinParadigm> for no reason other than microsoft
21:33:44 <frg_Away> And now for some tv time and sleep. Nighty night.
21:33:46 <NewTobinParadigm> windows 11 in 22H2 will have the updated components integrated so the windows terminal program has to ship with less
21:33:57 <NewTobinParadigm> which is good i just wish they backported the conhost
21:34:17 <NewTobinParadigm> to windows older
21:43:36 <NewTobinParadigm> njsg: I am really divided if i should just abandon the xpfe emulation of toolbar grippys or if i should re-integrate the grippy into the main toolbar binding
21:43:46 <NewTobinParadigm> what do you think i should do?
21:47:37 <NewTobinParadigm> I'd love to make the toolbar order customizable and persistant
21:47:59 <NewTobinParadigm> there was an extension for firefox a LONG time ago on mozdev that permitted it
21:48:16 <NewTobinParadigm> but i haven't been able to find it
22:04:30 <njsg> NewTobinParadigm: I'm afraid I don't have an opinion on that at the moment
22:04:53 <NewTobinParadigm> njsg: you know what I am talking about right the toolbar grippys
22:04:59 <NewTobinParadigm> that collapse the toolbars
22:05:12 <njsg> yes
22:05:21 <NewTobinParadigm> maybe i need to go research the orginal xpfe toolbar binding
22:05:28 <njsg> "those things I misclick on once in a while"
22:05:34 <NewTobinParadigm> and compare with the xbl extended binding
22:05:52 <NewTobinParadigm> njsg: you don't have nostagia for them?
22:06:01 <NewTobinParadigm> In SM frg added a pref to disable em
22:07:35 <njsg> possibly a bit; I need to get the XPFE theme working with newer versions :-)
22:08:22 <NewTobinParadigm> I suppose the BEST thing would be to rename it to toolbarGrippy.xml and change the css selectors to apply it and not the normal binding if a pref is set.. That is if we bothered to backport css preference selectors.. i think i had it on the agenda but i dunno if it ever actually happened
22:56:58 <NewTobinParadigm> tonymec|away: refresh my memory, do we hate each other now? I can't remember.
22:57:50 <NewTobinParadigm> i know McI does but only because I called him out on not knowing how anything works despite literally watching the process for at LEAST 12 years