04:24:51 <IsambardPrince> Welp, the electric company in Illinois just redid their site with a bunch of Microsoft Azure crap.
04:25:05 <IsambardPrince> And now SeaMonkey can't log in to pay my electric bill.
12:24:19 <IsambardPrince> 	I tried out an official build of SeaMonkey 2.53.14 beta 1 yesterday and it's an even bigger compatibility nightmare than 2.53.13 provided by Fedora. Turns out that Fedora has been applying downstream patches for site compatibility.
12:24:28 <IsambardPrince> Guess I need to wait for 2.53.14 as a Fedora RPM.
12:26:03 <takane> Fedora should push their patches upstream then
12:26:54 <IsambardPrince> They've always said that's what they work to do.
12:28:36 <IsambardPrince> https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/seamonkey/tree/f36
12:29:24 <frg_Away> I/we can't take the patches as is. I have some like the site compatibility fixes on the radar but no eta.
12:30:41 <IsambardPrince> ComEd, the electric company in Illinois, just changed to some fresh Hell based on Microsoft Azure.
12:30:54 <IsambardPrince> And now the thing doesn't even load my account dashboard in SeaMonkey. :(
12:31:16 <IsambardPrince> I don't know what's going wrong with that.
12:31:38 <frg_Away> check the error log.
12:31:40 <IsambardPrince> Firefox handles it.
12:32:54 <frg_Away> and Chrome probably too so what is the point.
12:34:36 <IsambardPrince> Well, there are a lot of errors.
12:35:40 <frg_Away> customelements shadow dom ?
12:36:01 <IsambardPrince> I cleared it and hit log in.
12:36:11 <IsambardPrince> There's two errors in red now and a bunch of warnings.
12:37:34 <IsambardPrince> The two red errors are "XML parsing error: no root element found" and "syntax error unrecognized expression unsupportes peudo -webkit-autofill".
12:40:09 <frg_Away> any public url
12:41:15 <IsambardPrince> https://www.comed.com/Pages/default.aspx
12:41:23 <IsambardPrince> Could try hitting sign in.
12:41:29 <IsambardPrince> For me, it never loads the next page.
12:52:02 <frg_Away> nothing obvious but seems to be delivering chrome edge only code.
12:53:10 <IsambardPrince> Figures.
12:53:39 <IsambardPrince> There's a bunch of webkit vendor prefix crap that gives warnings.
13:49:03 <tomman> https://martok.github.io/palefill/ OK, wish there was a SeaMonkey version of this
13:49:05 <tomman> wait
13:49:09 <tomman> > Contributors have also helped with Iceweasel-UXP, Basilisk and SeaMonkey support. Those are considered “mostly supported”.
13:49:13 <tomman> oh, sweet~
13:55:30 <tomman> And it unbreaks GiggityHub again!
13:55:44 <jordi_> Hello. Can someone please tell me the shortcut for GoTo Line at Seamonkeys debugger? Thank you.
14:06:29 <tomman> weird, Palefill is supposed to support Pixiv, but it won't let me login because window.customElements is still undefined
14:07:55 <tomman> no, the form STILL tries to log in, but I get a 400 Invalid Request JSON reply
14:09:04 <tomman> ...time to do some hacking, as the logon form is not a www.pixiv.net, but accounts.pixiv.net instead
14:13:21 <tomman> yeah, adding accounts.pixiv.net to builtin-rules.js lets me logon, yay~
14:18:37 <tomman> https://github.com/martok/palefill/issues/9
14:19:04 <tomman> wish the ruleset could be edited client-side instead of hacking the .XPI, but eh, I'll take that.
14:40:12 <tomman> https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=28747 awesome, Google Drive is also dead in the water here
15:26:32 <tomman> but amazingly latest GMail redesign STILL WORKS on SeaMonkey
15:26:48 <tomman> apparently the GMail team is the only one that cares about compatibility, but then, it's email
15:26:57 <tomman> it IS supposed to be compatible with everything!
15:33:29 <frg_Away> tomman some stuff already works with dom.webcomponents.enabled and dom.webcomponents.customelements.enabled set to true. Not recommended for general browsing or permanently right now
15:34:03 <frg_Away> In general I can browse github and gitlab with only minor issues
15:35:58 <tomman> I rarely use Google Drive anyway
15:36:05 <tomman> but GMail still surprises me
15:36:36 <tomman> either they have a strict rule of "not messing with email so it aids Google mass data slurping" or they forgot the memo of jumping into the latest Chromeisms
15:42:19 <frg_Away> PerformanceObserver is in. Just regexp is a headache. Rebasing Waterfoxc patches but stuck in the middle because no time
21:14:53 <IsambardPrince> It would be cool if SeaMonkey had Gemini support. The Web is falling apart anyway.
21:15:06 <IsambardPrince> It's turned into a complete spam farm and fraud and link rot.
21:18:17 <frg_Away> Will not happen. No resources and knowledge to implement a new protocol.  So unless someone else does it no way unfortunately.
22:17:40 <njsg> tomman: I think Gmail still has "basic HTML" too, although for some time I think that doesn't stick anymore (you have to actively click the link every time)
22:17:49 <njsg> it used to remember the choice
22:18:04 <njsg> could it be code that's left around as long as it doesn't break?
22:25:50 <NewTobinParadigm> IsambardPrince: modify the gopher extension for those sticking with xul
22:25:53 <NewTobinParadigm> ;)
22:26:19 <tomman> Does Gemini even have a userbase these days, aside of a niche among the Hackernews crowd?
22:26:20 <NewTobinParadigm> I been working on this http://preview.binaryoutcast.com/special/test/?case=xpfile
22:26:25 <NewTobinParadigm> tomman: no
22:26:39 <NewTobinParadigm> just a few crazies but that in and of its self shouldn't be a slight against it
22:27:36 <tomman> I do not want yet another protocol
22:27:47 <tomman> I want webdevs to stop chasing the latest shinies
22:28:03 <NewTobinParadigm> tomman: we need moar protocols
22:28:10 <NewTobinParadigm> https for everything is fucked
22:28:44 <NewTobinParadigm> hell even http isn't recommended anymore even for sites that are public read-only with no interactive bit or one that is already https gauded
22:28:52 <NewTobinParadigm> so tomman sorry but i want more protocols
22:29:03 <tomman> And I want to go back to 2001 :/
22:29:06 <NewTobinParadigm> to keep the open web from completely supremecy
22:29:09 <tomman> sorry but I'm a dinosaur
22:29:18 <NewTobinParadigm> tomman: in 2001 there were dozens of actively used protocols
22:29:29 <NewTobinParadigm> the web was only one
22:29:58 <NewTobinParadigm> so we don't disagree except on the sub-point of that gopher and fake-gophers can exist
22:30:00 <tomman> back when I first went online in June 2001 over my powerful dial-up modem on my Deceleron shoebox, I never imagined that the day I would hate the Internet and its associated contents
22:30:04 <tomman> alas, here we are
22:30:19 <tomman> ---associated contents would ever arrive
22:30:26 <NewTobinParadigm> tomman: well for now.. one can still do their own thing
22:30:34 <NewTobinParadigm> and i am doing that until I physically can't anymore
22:32:33 <tomman> no, wait, there WAS a thing I already hated in 2001
22:32:41 <tomman> and that was Flash and Java applets
22:32:45 <NewTobinParadigm> Microsoft
22:32:46 <NewTobinParadigm> oh
22:32:50 <NewTobinParadigm> applets are good
22:32:55 <NewTobinParadigm> i love npapi
22:32:58 <tomman> not on a Deceleron shoebox
22:33:12 <tomman> every time I hit a page that required Flash or Java, I cursed everybody and his dog
22:33:18 <njsg> java applets are a special case perhaps, possibly owing to implementation, possibly the memory model
22:33:27 <njsg> it tended to feel much more resource-intensive
22:33:33 <NewTobinParadigm> now activex was fucked THAT is what allowed google and apple to use cell phones to kill the netscape plugin application programming interface
22:33:36 <tomman> combine that with a "56K" modem connecting at 28K just because even then my ISP was terrible, and well...
22:33:43 <NewTobinParadigm> prove me wrong
22:34:01 <tomman> I only dealt with ActiveX back then to install Flash, and the rare visit to Windows Update
22:34:06 <njsg> at least with flash and java there was a barrier to entry, and it was easier to make webdevs feel there was a price to pay if they chose to use these for essential parts of the site
22:34:31 <tomman> now that Flash and Java applets are gone, I fear we got scammed hard, as their replacements are 100x times WORSE
22:34:33 <njsg> now with html5, javascript and css and every new and rewritten standard...
22:34:54 <NewTobinParadigm> why should macromedia and adobe bother keeping flash secure when it is still insecure as fuck via activex and chrome came along and dropped support prompting everyone to and subplanting it with widevine in a monopolistic move adobe conspired with to be the token second until established
22:35:07 <NewTobinParadigm> JESUS CHRIST I NEED TO COLLECT ALL THIS SHIT AND WRITE IT ALL UP
22:35:15 <NewTobinParadigm> and put it on BinOC eh tomman njsg
22:36:09 <tomman> Back in 2001 my bank (which already used HTTPS!) just wanted my debit card (and PIN) to logon, but would not let me do that much other that consulting balances
22:36:10 <NewTobinParadigm> all because of god damned cellphones and those are only popular and matter to this because apple created the ipod
22:36:18 <NewTobinParadigm> all banks used https
22:36:28 <tomman> now the same bank shows me a f'ing Mac every time it loads its toxic pile of Javascripts!
22:36:32 <NewTobinParadigm> https was SPECIFICALLY FOR FINANCIAL BUSINESS REASONS
22:36:34 <njsg> Adobe certainly has a reputation regarding "keeping secure" no idea whether it's well deserved, but they do appear to insist in adding features that won't help, like ECMAscript on PDF.
22:36:43 <tomman> now THAT triggers me: aren't there computers other than Macs?!
22:36:54 <NewTobinParadigm> adobe ruined macromedia products
22:36:57 <njsg> tomman: yes, there are Emacs too
22:37:04 <tomman> touchè~
22:37:07 <NewTobinParadigm> i was a huge user (read: pirate) of macromedia
22:37:10 <NewTobinParadigm> also of jasc
22:37:15 <NewTobinParadigm> and corel fucked that up
22:37:21 <tomman> oh, Paint Shop Pro
22:37:26 <tomman> the last good PSP version was PSP7
22:37:32 <tomman> I still have it installed on a ol' XP laptop
22:37:38 <tomman> I still use it from time to time
22:37:40 <NewTobinParadigm> like symantec fucks up what they buy.. google literally rapes and sacrafises a fetus to whatever they buy
22:37:49 <NewTobinParadigm> yeah tomman the state of things is certainly fucked
22:38:05 <NewTobinParadigm> PSP9
22:38:21 <NewTobinParadigm> tho PSP 11 was the only corel version i can stand to use
22:38:28 <tomman> now I use GIMP, but man, it's not the same
22:38:30 <NewTobinParadigm> but it is a bit glitchy on Windows 10
22:38:45 <NewTobinParadigm> well tomman all my old shit is all in psp or pspimage format
22:38:50 <tomman> PSP was "just good", the feature set was exactly OK for my needs
22:38:57 <NewTobinParadigm> and i been using the program for .. decades now
22:39:01 <tomman> scan stuff, clean it up a bit, save optimized JPG/PNG, done
22:39:17 <tomman> even GIMP falls flat every now and then, and full fat Photoshop is an abomination
22:39:27 <NewTobinParadigm> i do occasionally use photoshop (including 6 specifically cause the way it generates some of its effects like clouds) but i prefer psp
22:39:43 <tomman> (but then last good Photoshop was 6 or CS3, depending on who you ask)
22:39:50 <NewTobinParadigm> CS2 was good
22:40:07 * njsg still waiting to make some Sony PSP "joke"
22:40:12 <NewTobinParadigm> i think that was pre-adobe modern up
22:40:14 <NewTobinParadigm> ui
22:40:23 <NewTobinParadigm> vs adobe post-modern ui on their AAAAAAAAAPPS
22:40:40 <NewTobinParadigm> I do want to start writing again
22:40:42 <tomman> no, CS3 was the final version prior to the Creative Cloud™ subscription model
22:40:54 <tomman> AKA "pay up or we'll hold your files ransom"
22:40:57 <NewTobinParadigm> but i can't write posts until i finish writing a huge chunk of code lol
22:42:00 <NewTobinParadigm> well that is the cost of not giving adobe thousands of dollars up front i guess
22:42:02 <NewTobinParadigm> tomman
22:43:04 <njsg> oh, was it adobe that had that pricing scheme where it was cheaper to fly to the states to buy the product?
22:43:29 <tomman> sounds more like Autodesk or Oracle
22:45:49 <NewTobinParadigm> same shit
22:46:09 <NewTobinParadigm> i'd rather shut down than shell out
22:46:18 <NewTobinParadigm> sell*
22:48:35 <njsg> Oracle's in a different league, I think.
22:50:39 <tomman> in the case of Oracle, they will definitively shut down you :D
23:46:28 <GrannyGoose> Oracle is as bad as M$$$$