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WG9s
I am here for the meeting!
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frg_away
WG9s you are early
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WG9s
hyes but within 1/2 hour
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WG9s
hi IanN
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IanN
hi WG9s
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njsg
here for the meeting too,
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njsg
hi .*
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IanN
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IanN
hi njsg
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IanN
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IanN
hi tonymec
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» tonymec is "away" except at meetings. Hello IanN WG9s.
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tonymec
hello njsg
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tonymec
hello frg_away
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frg_away
tonymec happy Sunday
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tonymec
frg_away: thank you, the same for you.
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IanN
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IanN
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IanN
Who's taking minutes?
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frg_away
me
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IanN
thanks
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IanN
Nominees for Friends of the Fish Tank?
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frg_away
sorry distracted :)
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frg_away
I nominate Dirk Fieldhouse Lootyhoof and UCyborg for fixing up Stylem and DTA
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frg_away
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frg_away
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frg_away
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frg_away
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IanN
seconded
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IanN
Action Items
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frg_away
irc log should be mention on the website today:
Bug 1782494
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frg_away
Just doing finishing touches to the patch.
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IanN
thanks for the work frg_away
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frg_away
Reminds me that we need to thank hardys. Maybe second nomination or next time.
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IanN
happy for it to be this time around
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frg_away
Oki will add him
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IanN
Status of the SeaMonkey Infrastructure
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frg_away
Nothing done I suspect. ewong is busy. Missing Crash reporter is a bit inconvenient. Some users report Startup crashes with the Windows x86. But works for me so suspect third party software like AV or something else.
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frg_away
One reason more to discontinue the x86 :D
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IanN
i'm not aware of any changes from the Linux side
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frg_away
Will update the x86 compiler for the next beta if it is clang related.
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frg_away
IanN no only Windows reported 2 times.
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IanN
Status of the SeaMonkey Source Tree
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frg_away
Third time was a crash playing media but it was 99.99% driver related. Was able to reproduce with old notebook.
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frg_away
comm-central is broken nut WG9s is working on a fix. Needs some updates.
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IanN
need to avoid broken nuts :P
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frg_away
but ne no nut... release got a bunch of new backports. clobber is broken because of python 3 fixes but we will fix it up later.
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IanN
i think WG9s has been testing rust 1.62 too I think
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frg_away
grump but me no nut
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frg_away
Is ok for me too. Running a build done with it.
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frg_away
No need to switch releases to it but can do I think.
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IanN
Release Train
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frg_away
Looking at the latest 102 esr patches no need to do a security release so maybe 2.53.14 beta next week ?
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IanN
yes, lots of backports, so would be good to get some testing done
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frg_away
Vacation time starting 08/21 so should be doable fast.
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tomman
hello world!
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tomman
is there any data on how many people STILL use the x86 builds?
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tomman
(aside of me on my vintage laptops, but then, those are only for lulz)
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frg_away
tomman ewong would need to check download counts. Only VMs here left. Maybe WG9s also has some numbers.
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IanN
Extensions Tracking
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frg_away
Stylish replacement Stylem is ok in 2.53.13 now and DTA should be soon. Not aware of any other breakage but there might be some.
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tomman
wonder what happened with pdf.js
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tomman
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tomman
it still works fine
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tomman
but I fear for the day it inevitably breaks
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frg_away
tomman still updating pdf.js in our tree. Just have no time to add to SeaMonkey.
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frg_away
Testing it now and the in a Firefox build too.
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tonymec
frg_away: my problem with about:addons disappeared after disabling Add-on Manager Version number the way you said; but to make it work I had to remember about "Help → Restart with Add-Ons Disabled" and use it.
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tomman
frg_away: oh, wasn't aware of that
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frg_away
tonymec Yes I ripped out some stuff too much probably. But only version number was affected. But not needed for a few releases now.
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frg_away
tomman we keep TB and Firefox building in outr trees for A/B testing. Also for tests which are broken for SeaMonkey for ages.
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IanN
2.Next, Feature List, Planning and Roundtable
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frg_away
bau
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IanN
ditto
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IanN
AOB?
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IanN
ok, next meeting is in 3 weeks on 28th August
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IanN
thanks for everyone's time today, same bat channel, same bat time
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IanN
i'll call that a meeting
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frg_away
see you
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WG9s
Opps seem I fell asleep while waiting for meeting start!
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tomman
jwz.org/blog/2017/10/gifs-as-mp4s this of course is a double edged sword, but one I would wear with pride
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tomman
on one side: videos are a TERRIBLE replacement for animated GIFs (which are already abused to hell these days since Internet memes became a thing)
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tomman
but on the flip side: blocking videos is trivial (thanks Flashblock!), and as a bonus, it will save bandwidth for both server AND client too!
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tomman
good luck blocking GIFs - you can stop animations from playing, but you can't stop the download of 20MB GIFs without fully disabling images and breaking the Internet
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tomman
...someone should revive Flashblock, get rid of the corpses (Flash is long gone, thankfully), and rename it to VideoBlock™ or something
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tomman
luckily I haven't had to patch it in years (after the initial patching by the addon converter)
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frg_Away
tomman uBlock does block images and media over a size you can set.
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tomman
does that rely on having to download the image first? Or just works with headers?
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frg_Away
tomman I don't know. All I know is that I block everything over 500kB and it seems to work :) Check Settings->Block media elements larger than ...
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frg_Away
You can unblock permanetly per site then
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tomman
Fortunately I don't hit animated GIFs that much lately (but I usually get assaulted by them every time I'm forced to rely on 3G/4G mobile data)
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frg_Away
I donÄt think it downloads first.
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tomman
and my policy with videos is "everything blocked by default unless whitelisted"
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frg_Away
media.autoplay.enabled = false here. If it breaks a site watch me not to care.
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tomman
that's a good start, but when you're stretching a paltry 1536MB/mo dataplan, you want to avoid such data from even entering into the wire
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tomman
For now I don't care that much about finding a solution for GIFs, but next time my DSL dies, I'll seriously have to research
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tomman
also the second reason I ended blocking videos: performance
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tomman
when JWZ converted all his memeGIFs to memeP4s, performance of his site on my laptops tanked so hard the things were literally ON FIRE
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tomman
(same with ol' Flash when websites started abusing it for ads)
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frg_Away
tomman Problem with 1.5GB is usually Windows and AV updates. With SeaMonkey alone and uBlock NoScript it should work barely.
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tomman
curiously enough, animated GIFs are relatively CPU-friendly despite being not hardware accelerated at all, but then I've yet to come across with a 720p GIF
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tomman
frg_Away: oh, Linux helps wonders there - all updates here are manual
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tomman
sadly the modern JS-first-and-only framework-of-the-week monsters drain that allotment in no time
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tomman
Or you end saving data anyway because that due to of our underperforming 3G networks, sites will stop loading abruptly and not work at all
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frg_Away
Personally I find js crap more offending. Megabytes of junk. Have not whitelistes clownflare and google stuff. Basically almost everything MS, google and the other ilk blocked by default.
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tomman
since noone tests on 35% packet loss, high latency networks anymore
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tomman
oh, just found a Discourse forum completely breaking on SeaMonkey with the dreaded "YOUR BROWSER IS OOOOOOOLD"
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tomman
but then, Discourse has always been a pox since day one
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tomman
(ask the The Daily WTF guys)
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frg_Away
tomman beed there done that 2 years ago when I sitll traveled. Now bought a cheap 4G wifi router with a sim slot and use wlan. No crap 3G cards and drivers and the router is really small.
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tomman
the problem here is not hardware, but our networks being unusable
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tomman
even the 4G ones
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frg_Away
tomman well looks like they use bigint now. Maybe to store the size of their bloated js files :) Personally they do the world a favor if they block access :D
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tomman
forum.openwrt.org here is a example
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frg_Away
I have yet to find one good discourse based forum.
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tomman
other forums haven't "updated" yet
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tomman
the main page renders, but no scrollbars
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tomman
well, my interactions with Discourse had a very bad start when TDWTF migrated to it nearly 10 years ago
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tomman
it was literally a carnage worthy from the bloodiest FPS game
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tomman
the guys literally found exploits every single day
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tomman
...until Jeff Atwood got fed up and banned the whole community!
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tomman
(they migrated to another bloatfest, NodeBB)
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frg_Away
tomman might also need an override and set FX 87 or higher. Some of their dump clipbaord code was only supported by mozilla in these higher releaees and they blocked hard by version.
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tomman
I can remember that they even ran a page monitoring the outages on TDWTF forums (which were very frequent, mainly due to Discourse being Discoursistent™)
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tomman
they (Discourse, not TDWTF) even coined the "HTTP 500 OK" error code :D
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tomman
as for me personally I had Discourse forums leaking RAM like mad on Mozilla-based browsers if you left a couple tabs open for more than a few hours
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tomman
don't bother reporting bugs to them either
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tomman
they may even ban you!
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tomman
(and silently delete the entire bug report thread YES THEY DO NOT USE A PROPER BUGTRACKING SOFTWARE!)
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tomman
for extra lulz: they came with the brilliant idea of "avatar CDNs"
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frg_Away
Mozilla is probably using discourse to make it easier to not give support :)
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tomman
html { overflow-y: hidden !important; }
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tomman
DISCOURRRRRRSEEEEE!!!
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tomman
that's Jeff Atwood's way to say "f*** you" to us not using Holy Chrome?!
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tomman
this guy really has a hateboner on "graceful degradation"
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tomman
I mean, the forum renders fine and it's somehow useable, but the guy really doesn't want me to scroll down
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tomman
no, wait
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tomman
I can't click hyperlinks
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tomman
why
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tomman
ah yeah, an empty click() JS handler
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tomman
WHY
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tomman
this goes beyond sabotage
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tomman
this is plain webdev terrorism
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tomman
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tomman
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tomman
"Discourse is designed for the next 10 years of the Internet, so the minimum browser requirements are high. "
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tomman
ah, so Atwood is again with his "10 year plan"
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tomman
no, the one high is him
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tomman
"Discourse was built with high resolution touch devices in mind, and switches automatically to a mobile layout for small screens. "
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tomman
oh, he is also with his "poor people with cheap/old devices are not worthy of my 10-year plan"
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tomman
surprise: only iPhones are really supported
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tomman
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GrannyGoose
a lot of places are using either that discourse ore discussion prograqm, mailing lists are dead
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tomman
even worse, hosting a Discourse instance involves Docker and friends
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tomman
so either you pay for a Certified Dedicated Discourse Hosting™ (sold by Discourse themselves!)
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tomman
or suffer
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tomman
officially you can't install it the old-fashioned way, due to its insane complexity
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tomman
(same happens with its lookalikes, like NodeBB)
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tomman
gone are the times of "unzip, change permissions to something sane, open your browser and run setup.php"