10:43:55 <njsg> CloudFlare might be doing a lot to promote their brand, it seems.
10:45:48 <njsg> And, to be fair, I feel that article is not complete enough when it only suggests that people leave Firefox, I can imagine people ditching some sites too. Or, if CloudFlare keeps screwing things frequently, websites themselves dropping CloudFlare...
10:46:57 <njsg> things aren't looking that bright when their community forum antagonizes people who report issues and their support is apparently not informing customers of such changes.
12:31:12 <frg_Away> njsg most of the product community forums are just there so that a company can save on support... Lip service. In the case of cloudflare what I see is exacty this. Paying customers can report problems via a different channel and the masses get a support illusion and some people/moderators who think they are the cream of the computing elite.
12:58:31 <tomman> HN comments in particular are beyond pathetic: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31459258
13:35:28 <frg_Away> status meeting in 25 minutes if IanN_Away makes it in time: https://wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2022-05-22
13:45:29 <frg_Away> status meeting in 15 minutes if IanN_Away makes it in time: https://wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2022-05-22
13:50:25 <frg_Away> status meeting in 10 minutes if IanN_Away makes it in time: https://wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2022-05-22
13:50:52 <WG9s> Hi all here for the meeting
13:52:06 <WaltS48> Me too! Hi!
13:52:53 <frg_Away> host is still missing. He wasn't sure if he would make it in time.
13:53:02 <frg_Away> Hi ew_x WaltS48
13:53:12 <ew_x> hi frg_Away
13:53:15 <ew_x> :P
13:53:57 <WaltS48> I'll continue working on my jigsaw puzzle on ny phone.
13:55:22 <frg_Away> status meeting in 5 minutes if IanN_Away makes it in time: https://wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2022-05-22
13:57:05 <frg_Away> 3
13:57:14 <ew_x> 2... 1?
13:57:36 <frg_Away> too easy
13:57:42 <ew_x> ermm.  what happened to my othter log in?
13:57:46 <frg_Away> ew_x how is life?
13:58:05 <ew_x> frg_Away: somewhat surviving..   and you?  how's work?
13:58:24 <frg_Away> ew_x did go it seems. You mail still down?
13:59:02 <frg_Away> ew_x busy and ok. But time machine 12 years back and not all in a good way.
13:59:13 <frg_Away> 1
13:59:20 <ew_x> frg_Away: Ohhh...   damn..   I think my remote system has gone down..    will need to check tomorrow..   mail will be down until tomorrow.  sorry
13:59:35 <frg_Away> ew_x has been for some time
13:59:47 <frg_Away> unless it was up for a time
13:59:53 <ew_x> oh  <insert expletive>
13:59:54 <WG9s> OK  stopped the live f1 tv in anticipation of this meeting can watch it on my DVR after
14:00:30 <WaltS48> Oh, forgot about that.
14:00:44 <frg_Away> Meeting time but master of desaster is still missing. Should I take over as moderator and we do a short session?
14:00:49 <ew_x> I'm guessing tomorrow's going to be a h eadache...   all systems are down  ..
14:01:22 <frg_Away> ew_x maybe they go the flu :)
14:02:15 <frg_Away> Missing rsx11m. Did he mention that he couldn't make it?
14:02:36 <frg_Away> Hi IanN
14:02:38 <IanN> hi
14:02:48 <ew_x> IanN Good day!
14:02:49 <frg_Away> was about to start but now it is your honour.
14:02:56 <ew_x> hi rsx11m
14:02:57 <WG9s> frg_Away: I thought Clarence Clemons was the mast of disaster (among other names Bruce Springsteen gave him)
14:02:58 <frg_Away> Hi rsx11m
14:03:06 <ew_x> frg_Away: can't stay long.
14:03:06 <rsx11m> sorry, few minutes late...
14:03:07 <njsg> hi .*
14:03:09 <IanN> hi rsx11m
14:03:18 <rsx11m> hi ew_x !
14:03:21 <WG9s> hi Ian
14:03:22 <frg_Away> well lets start I do the notes
14:03:28 <rsx11m> hi IanN frg_Away WG9s
14:03:29 <WG9s> hi IanN
14:03:37 <ew_x> hi WG9s
14:03:41 <IanN> Who's taking minutes?
14:03:44 <frg_Away> Nominate njsg for tracking down the clownflare issue and ifinding an initial fix.
14:03:49 <frg_Away> Me
14:03:51 <IanN> Nominees for Friends of the Fish Tank
14:03:53 <IanN> thanks
14:03:55 <ew_x> +1
14:04:06 <IanN> Action Items
14:04:22 <frg_Away> Nothing new here
14:05:38 <ew_x> ditto...  haven't actually done anything lately (my apologies)..   work and life has been throwing me  curve balls..
14:05:43 <IanN> Status of the SeaMonkey Infrastructure
14:06:09 <WG9s> I fixed an issue in my build automations, but not anything anyone else would be interested in.
14:06:52 <frg_Away> Nothing new. VS2022 is broken as a compiler now. 17.2 throws an ICE. VS2019 is still find and didn't plan to switch the builder anyway.
14:07:06 <frg_Away> Lets see how long it takes MS to fix it.
14:07:26 <frg_Away> ^VS2019 is still fine
14:08:42 <WG9s> Might take longer because the FIrfoxe folks might not complain because i believe the have switched to using clang
14:09:21 <WG9s> sso would depend on if it is a compiler or header file issue
14:09:39 <frg_Away> In a libangle header still the same in master but might be dependent on compiler switches and other things.
14:09:41 <IanN> yes, may take a while
14:10:56 <IanN> Status of the SeaMonkey Source Tree
14:11:57 <frg_Away> All building 2.53 got some more python 3 fixes but not there yet.
14:13:26 <IanN> that's good :)
14:13:59 <IanN> Release Train
14:14:12 <frg_Away> I have about 50 more from Myckel and me but this breaks Linux builds :(
14:15:01 <IanN> so something is missing?
14:15:09 <frg_Away> Started 2.53.13b1 release work. Wanted to get the regexp in but not there yet. So basically 2.53.13b1 pre with more sec fixes I think.
14:15:39 * WG9s thinks maybe we should convert Myckel to suing Linux! ;-)
14:15:40 <frg_Away> IanN maybe. The build system is a mess. Only the current central level is worse :D
14:16:08 <WG9s> using not suing
14:16:14 <frg_Away> Usually Windows breaks but this time Linux complains about non unicode strings.
14:16:29 <frg_Away> WG9s he does
14:16:58 <frg_Away> I don't and did add fixes for Windows and prerequsites. And now bang...
14:18:07 <frg_Away> I probably need to get a 70 source package and compare against it.
14:18:41 <IanN> :S
14:18:47 <WG9s> well my experience is any unicode strings after the hg commit message need to be left as is and should only redo them in antything in the patdh beofre the start of the first diff
14:19:23 <IanN> Extensions Tracking
14:19:24 <frg_Away> WG9s this is not the headers but the mach configure. Seems to write some non unicode strings.
14:19:25 <WG9s> anything actuallhy in a diff is probably using a unicode string on purpose
14:19:57 <WG9s> OH so mach configure is writing unicode strings that then fail during mach vbuild?
14:20:03 <frg_Away> Nothing new. DTA 3.0.9.2 is still broken in 2.53.13b1 pre but Dirk is on it.
14:20:31 <frg_Away> WG)s yes the PATH issue you ran into some time ago.
14:21:04 <WG9s> so non0ascii characters in the PATH?
14:21:10 <IanN> no new versions of extensions
14:22:05 <WG9s> that was supposed to say non-ascii
14:22:31 <frg_Away> WG)s hard to say. Probably missing some stuff in the build system.
14:24:17 <ew_x> IanN, frg_Away  sorry...  need to call it a day..
14:24:21 <IanN> 2.Next, Feature List & Planning
14:24:27 <IanN> ew_x: take care
14:24:29 <frg_Away> ew_x all good.
14:24:31 <rsx11m> cu ew_x
14:24:44 <ew_x> IanN, frg_Away, rsx11m , WG9s   'night   have a good one.
14:25:42 <frg_Away> Not much time currently as stated. Need to find my way "into" the new job.
14:26:36 <rsx11m> makes sense ... that's life
14:26:53 <IanN> yes, real life comes first
14:26:55 * WG9s remebers when he was trying to find his way out of his old job wanted to reitre way earlier than he did.
14:27:46 <frg_Away> WG9s well I did more or less retire for a year but need some real people around. You all don't count  :)
14:28:21 <frg_Away> Just sad that SM takes a hit because of it.
14:29:10 <WG9s> but was kind of they would not give me a retirement package that everyone else got.  eventually my direct boss took a disliking to me so I ended up getting fired with the package they refused ealrier to give me if i retired.
14:29:53 <rsx11m> funny how these things work 8-)
14:29:57 <WG9s> toio prevent a wringful termination lawsuit.\
14:31:41 <IanN> AOB?
14:31:49 <frg_Away> Well the bank I now work for is seriously understaffed in IT but that is a different story. And still using z/OS for some systems so it is time machine time.
14:32:34 <frg_Away> rsx11m you got the link in the meeting list wrong. Pointed to the old one and I didn't notice first. No other AOB :)
14:33:02 <rsx11m> grr, too much in a hurry again :-/
14:33:21 <frg_Away> Just in case someone wonders about the undos in the 05/08 meeting.
14:34:18 <IanN> next meeting in 2 weeks time
14:34:32 <IanN> same bat channel, same bat time
14:34:46 <IanN> thank you everyone for your time today
14:34:49 <WG9s> Iisn;t that backswards?
14:35:06 <WG9s> I thought it was same bat time same bat channel
14:35:35 <rsx11m> it's like the "+" and "*" operators in math ;-)
14:36:13 <frg_Away> A difference which makes no difference is no difference at all.
14:36:58 <IanN> not sure which way
14:37:13 <IanN> just add lots of brackets
14:37:18 * rsx11m needs a new brain
14:37:34 <frg_Away> https://quotepark.com/quotes/1408464-william-james-there-are-no-differences-but-differences-of-degree/
14:37:57 <vord[m]> Is this a problem for seamonkey? Does seamonkey have many distinct XBL bindings that would need to be replaced to get it onto a newer gecko? https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1566221
14:38:06 * frg_Away now watches rsx11m
14:38:11 <WG9s> For those of you who don't get it..  Batman was the first US tv show to be on on 2 consecutive nights on the same netork same time with 2 part episodes so at the end of the first night was always. "For the excitinng conclusion, tune in tomorrow, same bat time same bat channel"
14:38:55 <frg_Away> vord[m] yes and overlays need to go too. And a 100 dumbed down other things like full themes.
14:38:57 <rsx11m> certainly perfect for double-episodes!
14:39:56 <frg_Away> I love many of the cliff hangers :)
14:40:11 <rsx11m> don't look down ;-)
14:40:45 * frg_Away arghhhhh...... plonk
14:40:56 <vord[m]> Truly remarkable, im surprised it only took 3 years to entirely kill xbl
14:40:56 <vord[m]> https://bgrins.github.io/xbl-analysis/
14:41:40 <rsx11m> 8-) bye now!
14:41:47 <njsg> cliffhangers were perhaps especially interesting in Tex Avery shows
14:42:56 <frg_Away> Oh didn't clear away status. Silly me. Now away and still here
14:44:20 <IanN> anyway, i'll call that a meeting :)
14:45:26 <frg_Away> yes see you next time