06:23:28 <NewTobinParadigm> frg if you find a solution to the cloudflare denying browsers that aren't chrome chrome chrome chrome chrome apple or wokezilla please let me know
06:38:18 <NewTobinParadigm> Well from what I can tell.. depending on factors if it is JUST UA which it ain't.. 74.0.1 loops.. 75.0 gets through
06:48:01 <NewTobinParadigm> well forget that .. it works now
06:48:04 <NewTobinParadigm> ugh
13:30:16 <IanN> Status meeting in 30 minutes - https://wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2022-05-08
13:52:19 <IanN> Status meeting in 8 minutes - https://wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2022-05-08
13:53:21 <njsg> hi all
13:54:09 <IanN> hi njsg
13:54:14 <WG9s> after meeting is over I will work on the sdk v ersion test stuff only the very first bug is a bit needs manual stuff the rest of them I thinkk should be no issue.
13:55:01 <WG9s> I was trying to do this yesterday but got bogged down in something else and then was about time for my normal automated build so I gave up and put it off till today
13:59:54 <IanN> hi rsx11m
14:00:00 <rsx11m> hi IanN
14:00:13 <IanN> Meeting time - https://wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2022-05-08
14:00:20 <frg> Hi rsx11m
14:00:24 <rsx11m> hi frg
14:00:42 <IanN> Who's taking minutes?
14:00:46 <WG9s> hi all here for the meeting
14:00:54 <rsx11m> hi WG9s and WG9s_
14:00:56 <frg> me
14:01:00 <IanN> thanks frg
14:01:09 <frg> Hi njsg
14:01:10 <IanN> Nominees for Friends of the Fish Tank?
14:01:36 <frg> mcsmurf and RickieES for SeaMonkey e.V. work
14:01:52 <frg> Hi wyatt8740
14:02:02 <IanN> seconded
14:02:03 <WG9s> I also think we need a special award for frg.  He always volunteers to do the minutes.
14:02:17 <rsx11m> seconded ^
14:02:22 <IanN> WG9s: a special writing implement?
14:02:58 <frg> Well ratty always did it and I thought I would help him a bit. See what it got me :)
14:04:36 <IanN> Action Items
14:04:49 <frg> too much action nothing new from me
14:05:15 <IanN> Status of the SeaMonkey Infrastructure
14:05:44 <frg> Updated the Windows builder to latest VS2019 for the 2.53.12 release. Had some compiler fixes I wanted.
14:06:07 <IanN> (and nothing broke)
14:06:49 <frg> Hope not. Using it already since day 1 (the compiler)
14:07:44 <IanN> Status of the SeaMonkey Source Tree
14:08:34 <frg> All building I think. Pushed a few build fixes from WG9s to central lately.
14:10:16 <frg> Bogged down with build stuff in 2.53 python 3 compatibility together with Myckel.
14:11:23 <IanN> Release Train
14:11:40 <IanN> 2.53.12 b1 and 2.53.12 final were both released
14:12:31 <frg> Nothing reported against the beta so we did a fast release. l10n and a few sec fixes for the release only.
14:13:36 <frg> 2.53.13b1 will have some new stuff so thinking a fast beta would be fine. Optional chaining helps with lots of sites.
14:14:16 * rsx11m just noticed that he forgot to update the meeting notes about the 2.53.12 release ...
14:15:33 <WG9s>  a reecnt patch on 2.53 changed the macOS SDK requirement from 10.11 to 10.12.  I am working on backporting the code from central to check the SDK version to make sure it meets minimum requirements.,  I expect to have that landed today.
14:17:11 <WG9s> currently if you use 10.11 it fails with a stupid error the intent is to fail eralier saying your SDK is too old and you need at least 10.12
14:19:08 <IanN> thanks
14:19:12 <IanN> Extensions Tracking
14:19:46 <IanN> github-wc-polyfill is now on 1.2.19
14:20:40 <frg> As stated already 2.53.13 might break some old ones. legacy generators iterators and array comprehension is gone. Need to check the addon-sdk too which still has some references. I would love to kick this one but this would break even more so lets see what goes.
14:21:29 <frg> Wasn't an easy decision but the parser rebases "killed" me.
14:24:08 <IanN> 2.Next, Feature List, Planning and Roundtable
14:25:26 <frg> Nothing new from me. bau
14:26:09 <IanN> ditto for me
14:26:17 <WG9s> I think I already said what I am working on
14:26:39 <IanN> i'm starting to look at contentPrefs2
14:26:49 <WG9s> vbut I thought applied to people trying to build macOS form source
14:27:14 <WG9s> Oh wait I also need to get back on getting my irc logbot working
14:27:25 <WG9s> because it will have a legit cert
14:28:00 <frg> IanN best to skip it :) Would break the add-on world.
14:29:02 <IanN> frg: it's already broken my brain :P
14:30:05 <frg> IanN missing so much stuff. If the old prefs are removed data manager would need to go to the database directly. Can co exists but the last time I looked not much value in it. ymmv
14:30:26 <frg> One of the blockers for 2.57.
14:30:47 <IanN> frg: plenty of other things for me to look at
14:30:49 <WG9s> yes but seems like not needed for 2.53 and will just break thinks in 2.53
14:31:18 <WG9s> so a thing to look at for 2.57 but not before
14:31:35 <rsx11m> yepp, skip it for 2.53 then, apparently
14:32:26 <IanN> AOB
14:32:34 <frg> Like js downloads one of the things reimplemented to just fill the "limited" needs of Firefox.
14:33:46 <IanN> I should be available for the next meeting if traffic behaves
14:34:23 <frg> Working again and so not much good during the week currently. Will see how it pans out.
14:34:47 <WG9s> so i 2 weeks then?
14:34:54 <WG9s> in 2 weeks
14:35:25 <IanN> yes, 2 weeks time
14:35:32 <IanN> same bat channel, same bat time
14:35:41 <IanN> thanks for everyone's time today
14:35:45 <frg> jo
14:35:49 <rsx11m> dto
14:36:33 <WG9s> oh btw on meeting time if anyone is still having issues becuase of different DST/summertime dates.  I have the meeting in google calendar as bing at 3PM London local time
14:36:52 <WG9s> (which I refer to as IanN standard time)
14:37:46 <IanN> pto
14:38:01 <njsg> I still have somewhere a draft with tables with more details for the meeting times, I could finally try to upload that to the wiki
14:39:17 <rsx11m> there is a link to timeanddate.com, which shows you the meeting time in your local time zone directly (plus a table)
14:39:27 <rsx11m> both in the invitations and the meeting notes
14:40:14 <rsx11m> right at the top before the agenda
14:41:36 <IanN> rsx11m: thanks :)
14:42:03 <IanN> anyway, I call this a meeting
14:42:16 <IanN> thanks again for your time
14:42:31 <rsx11m> bye then!
14:42:37 <frg> and back to work.
14:42:47 <rsx11m> ... to breakfast 8-)
14:42:49 <IanN> bye rsx11m
19:28:07 <NewTobinParadigm> as an addendem to the Status Meeting, all things are fully operational and responding correctly to the Cross-Reference update code following the text file in master branches
19:28:52 <NewTobinParadigm> I hope it has been useful to you all
21:26:50 <frg_Away> NewTobinParadigim yes the crossref helps. Using it frequently. Thanks.
21:37:46 <NewTobinParadigm> frg_Away: I dunno why Mozilla ever abandoned it.. their successive replacements were inferior to this ancient hacked up mess
21:44:12 <WG9s_> THe people who supported the old cross reference system all left.
21:44:26 <NewTobinParadigm> WG9s_: that would make sense if they were purged
21:44:53 <NewTobinParadigm> say in .. well the 2016 purge and cross reference was discontinued and replaced with dxr wasn't it
21:45:42 <WG9s_> well origianl system used was lxr and that guy left a new guy took over and wrote mxr then he left 3rd guy and we got dxr and then he was gone also
21:45:58 <WG9s_> i think was kind of a thankless thing to maintain
21:46:15 <WG9s_> and not enough people willing to help
21:46:39 <NewTobinParadigm> the old lxr was modified by mozilla to do multiple trees
21:47:00 <NewTobinParadigm> and yeah lots of infra work is a thankless job
21:47:19 <Harzilein> meanwhile i recently made another go of adapting gnu global to what i want. very tiny steps. at least i can make it output a function's body now instead of just the start
21:47:19 <NewTobinParadigm> i learned that long ago
21:48:43 <NewTobinParadigm> i am still gonna continue replacing parts of the cross reference with php the only thing i can't do for the forseeable future is display of actual source files OR ident search that would have to stay perl.. but listing the directory and freetext search is fairly easy I just need to DO the work
21:49:06 <frg_Away> Well usually you pay people to maintain it and get it fixed. Sometimes replacements are needed but with mozilla it seems every new employee seems to design a new one :) Can't say I see a general plan...
21:49:15 <NewTobinParadigm> i could display the source files but they wouldn't be ident linked
21:49:57 <NewTobinParadigm> well when you run an organization subject to political will of your benefactors .. you get 2010s+ Mozilla
21:51:54 <NewTobinParadigm> UNLESS i could potentally modify HOW identifers are linked and JUST use perl to do that without generating the whole page.. the same could be done for ident search.. leaving a reduced scope of perl code to ONLY do ident cross referencing, linking, search results possibily even given back to PHP as json or something
21:52:11 <NewTobinParadigm> just get perl components stripped down to bare nessessities and php to do everything else
21:52:11 <WG9s_> for the wource wonce i find the file i want to look at i jst use https://hg.mozilla.org to list and click on annotate to get blame.
21:52:37 <WG9s_> but if you are looking for something to work on your source and not mozilla source that would not reallh work for you
21:52:46 <NewTobinParadigm> eyah i need to figure out the perl code that allows git and hg parsing.. it was written VERY specifically for mozilla's setup
21:52:57 <NewTobinParadigm> tho gogs for me doesn't seem to have git blame
21:53:19 <NewTobinParadigm> but it is something to look into
21:53:27 <NewTobinParadigm> tho it does slow down processing
21:53:38 <NewTobinParadigm> which is why I only use mozilla hg for the central repos
21:55:02 <NewTobinParadigm> i used to know more perl back in the very early 2000s when i ran Yabb and graymatter and some orginal cgi-bin shit
21:55:17 <NewTobinParadigm> but i forgot almost all of it
21:55:38 <NewTobinParadigm> me reading perl today is trying to just use basic c-style skills plus regex reading skills
21:55:53 <NewTobinParadigm> a shame perl is almost a dead language
21:58:38 <Harzilein> as i see it, perl and ruby have merely switched places. still perfectly fine to read perl for me, the problem for projects to adapt perl these days is that the knowledgeable people can't be easily replaced.
21:58:47 <Harzilein> adopt*
21:58:50 <NewTobinParadigm> ruby is just terrible
21:58:52 <NewTobinParadigm> imo
21:59:08 <NewTobinParadigm> also
21:59:09 <NewTobinParadigm> There is nothing wrong with your television set. Do not attempt to adjust the picture. We are controlling transmission. We will control the horizontal. We will control the vertical.
21:59:24 <NewTobinParadigm> We can change the focus to a soft blur or sharpen it to crystal clarity. For the next hour, sit quietly and we will control all that you see and hear.
21:59:32 <NewTobinParadigm> You are about to participate in a great adventure. You are about to experience the awe and mystery which reaches from the inner mind to – The Outer Limits!
21:59:44 <Harzilein> wesley blew up the earth!
22:00:36 <Harzilein> </spoiler> &gt;;)
22:05:16 <Harzilein> i recently read some perl code that looked like it was transliterated from javascript. so apparently some people try and succeed to take up perl in the third decade of the 21st century.
22:05:43 <NewTobinParadigm> Harzilein: all i can really be sure of though
22:05:49 <NewTobinParadigm> is the future ain't what it used to be
22:05:51 <NewTobinParadigm> Harzilein
23:30:44 <tomman> Perl!? Ruby?! Isn't those, like, for ooooold people?
23:31:02 <tomman> the rage is JavaScript, YAML, and the hipster language of the week!
23:31:06 <tomman> oh, and Rust
23:31:27 <tomman> I have a grand total of like 5 minutes of experience on Ruby
23:31:56 <tomman> and that was over a decade ago because I had to hack a Amarok lyrics plugin that broke because lyrics sites suck
23:57:45 <WG9s> the future ain't what it used to be sounds like a Yogi-ism!
23:59:41 <WG9s> In case you don;t get the reference these are quotes attributed to Yogi Berra who said this like this but no evidence he ever actually said this particular thing!