hi

someone on IRC ?

?

someone know how use gdrive with seamonkey 2.53.11.1 ? any command don't work..

.seen miciomicio22

!seen miciomicio22

*/whowas*

heh, cz really likes the "attached" lingo :D

Did you guys add some performance improvements into 2.53.12b1?

Is there any chance SM would implement this?

I know I asked maybe year ago, so just to keep updated on this, cheers

JamminUnit Lots of stuff in 2.53.12b1 and feels snappier to me. But might be wishful thinking :)

mahdi[m} it is in 2.53.13b1 pre

wau, let me try WG9s build then

frg_Away: yeah, same here.

it works, fantastic! thanks frg_Away I guess my tiny FOSS budget for this month goes to SM :)

It was actually a backport from Waterfox Classic which was a backport from PaleMoon but lots of other things in 2.53.13b1 pre which are not :)

Yeah also noticed it looks somewhat shinier (reloading tabs icon etc), really happy project is alive

frg_Away: what was?

and how can anything from UXP/GRE/ARE be a backport when our orginal base is older?

:P

mahdi[m] The complete NPAPI removal might have to do with it. Lots of code in hot places gone.

I got htis for WFx Classic: wg9s.com/comm-253/patches/seamonkey…atches/WIP-1539694-allsettled.patch

^from WFX Classic

I plan to globally disable plugins by default but removing NPAPI is more trouble than it is worth at my level

oh yeah

i helped athenian get into the right mindset and asked the right questions to get him to fix this after Moonchild flamed out on the task

sucks they both betrayed me.. but oh well

btw I intend to revive the InstantBird project as a fork on my platform codebase

I plan to call it Axion Instant Messenger .. or .. wait for it.. AIM

;)

will have XMPP/Gtalk and IRC and likely be able to backport matrix from the later chatcore work

just no WebRTC relient protocols or the dead ones

seeing as I am gonna setup XMPP server eventually when I get around to it.. and I despise chatzilla.. would be nice to have a BinOC Product that can access BinOC Services

SOMEONE has to keep the XMPP federated system from total collapse after all

i wonder why someone doesn't take XMPP and just replace XML with JSON responses

JMPP

:P

good to know frg_Away feels also snappier using it for few minutes, let's see after few days ... anyway really happy I can still be on SM as my main browser ever since NN gold :)

IF I was SMART I'd rebase everything on 56

mahdi[m] well technically it is now well beyond the Quantum Marketing Fx 57 level when it comes to source. There really was no Quantum but there are still believers in this :)

but too much has been done to my base so i guess I will have to try and continue evolving it up

frg_Away: remember MANY things done in 57-60 were illadvised and were reverted or refactored away in later codebases

opening up security holes that were only dealt with with deletion or complete refactoring or rusticals

I know. I did go thru all 57 patches and skipped the worst offenders. As for security always checked the bugs and picked the regressions and crash fixes.

frg_Away: yeah but not everything is caught especially if an entire blog is just outright replaced

blob*

or slaved into servo

stylo

the orginal codepath could have an exposed vulnerability because it isn't taken into consideration anymore until its eventual removal

NewTobinParadigm: that is one of the problems with trying to support the old non-stylo style system. It si no longer being updated with security patches

we really need to get stylo to work

stylo and webreder have so many regressions it will take time to stabilize. Not enabled and webrender was only really a thing in 91 anyway.

I take the patches but at least for webrender I don't think it will come in this life to SM. Personlly I think with this one they limited themselves to the latest set of gfx cards with the latest drivers. Anything older will behave badly because of driver bugs or missing os support.

i think that would be a mistake

not doing webrender for now is fine as i am not sure it is still enabled in all cases to the old code still works and is supported. stlo on the otherhand has not been supported for a long time even for security fixes.

NewTobinParadigm Rust is a mistake but can't be helped.

webrender is a bit too only works on certain graphics cards so they still supported the old code as a fallback at least fairly recently so probably still supported for security fixes.

i dunno what people expected really..

it is literally corroding the codebase

WG9s_ baically webrender is now enabled in 91 and old code removed. Can't say I like it. They use now a software render path there.

i'd punch emillio in the face if i could for what he has done

stylo is another issue. not sure much there that would be security issues but is kind of why a lot of sites display incorrectly because recent changes to the CSS standard are only implemented in stylo.

yeah a software renderer targeting systems that all have compositors .. what sense does THAT make

NewTobinParadigm: is a way to make webrender work for older GPUs that can not do it I think

I don't punch anyone. It is just code.

I punch Emilio just for causing thouse utf=8 check-ins!

WG9s_: See.. we CAN agree on something :)

NewTobinParadigm: just in case you don;t know there some odd kind of charatcer enoding issue beween git and hg with our patch queues with his name inthe hg headers

I don't doubt it

unicode should go away

And I punch you all if you continue to tell that you will punch people. Just watching the news and Adolf Putin is enough for 10 lifetimes.

stick to plain ascii and maybe ansi sometimes

frg_Away: so you don't punch people but u'd punch me?

I'll have you courtmarshalled, shot, and sent to the russian front!

basically an issue with anyone whose name has Diacriticals in the "# User" line

We refer to this as the Emilio issue!

Well 90 years after my country and our glorious fuehrer did it to them they do it to another country the same way. Must be progress I think.

he doesn't just cause a few issues.. it is a whole subscription

NewTobinParadigm: emilio seems to be the one doing the most to break us, but also seems to be the only one trying to implement new stuff in Firefox.

because his work relies on obliterating the netscape and classical mozilla legacy

if it didn't he wouldn't do it

prove me wrong

also likely has the correct opinions as well

you know that is of paramount importance

back in the day was a community project kind of even supposedly less supported than seamonkey called camino whch was trying to get the browser to run on a MAC. was not supported at all by mozilla but still had a you break it you fix it policy.

you know what astounds me in this day and age.. even when we are super pissed off at each other we can eventually be civial again and that 4chan and kiwi farms were more civial than the Pale Moon community

figure that shit out

was not a your patch would be backed out but would be required to work with the Camino people to make it work.

I remember Camino

was the mac solution because Firefox's orginal project goals were to NEVER be on mac.. only unix and windows

in principle I agree with you break it you fix it.. but it can be applied so badly most of the time

The problem with mozilla is 99% caused by management.

the problem with mozilla was 99% caused by MozCo

not MozOrg

at the time

but we are talking 2005-2009 era

and yeah I was observing back then as I tend to do

And now really on focused on WIndows. the whole reason Firefox took off was back in teh early days when trying to get non-technical people to use the web, they turned to their techy friends who were all UNIX people and they advised the people who asked for help advised them to use FIrefox.

I am aware

what a fuckin mistake that was in hindsight

eh lol

well, the alternative was IE

Firefox 4 really fucked everyone over.. gecko/2 killed easy embedding.. Firefox 4's UX nearly killed the skinning community as well as had a big impact on the extension scene.. then came bootstrap and jetpack and mainstream of lightweight themes

and then eventually Australis and then Quantum and now no one cares

and Mozilla's marketshare shows that

endless mobile failed projects and compramises

yep

Of course Netscape screed up by abandoning Netscape navigator and having the suite being the onl thing they provided.

that was AOL

Who owns Netscape these days?

Verizon Media

wasn't Facebook?

ah, Oath

no it is Verizon Media

I'd KILL to get the trademark

"brand necrophilia" would say JWZ

my Borealis branding is as close as I can make it without actually infrenging on it

does that mean it is hyahoo are they not Verizon now?

IIRC that became Oath, which at some point was bought by Verizon or something like that

Yahoo is still TECHNICALLY under Oath proper but still that is under Verizon Media

while Netscape is str8 up Verizon Media

well

technically still under AOL

the last remnants of Yahoo are in Japan, but that's owned by Softbank

which is Under verizon media

aka the one doing the firesale of ARM

AOL and Oath are at the same level organization wise under VZM

not a square not a circle.. blue purple instead of blue green offset ship wheel instead of centered and the font is RedHat's

that is as close as I dare to get to Netscape's actual branding

wonder how much is the Netscape brand worth for Verizon these days

i think the ISP still makes them some money

I guess the answer is "zero, but you still need to put some extra zeroes in front of that number on the check"

the domain name makes them money.. but the tangible brand identity worth? not much but more than releasing it to someone else would

more or less tomman

reminds me when JWZ tried to get the mcom.com domain back

he nearly got for free... until Verizon lawyers got in the middle

they wouldn't let him but they did set the dns to his shit

at least he did got that

I remember using Mosiac Netscape 0.9 on Windows 3.1

jwz.org/blog/2019/03/help-me-keep-home-mcom-com-online ah, this

I think my first Netscape release was 4.something

I am stuck for ISP service where I live. I don't like Verizon, but I HATE Comcast!

still better than Soviet Venezuela, where for 90% of us there is no choice but the state-owned ISP which makes your USAian ISPs look like shining angels

ironically, before Chavez, Verizon owned a significant part of CANTV

toommanthat was around when things went wrong theu came up with Netscpase Navigaotro version 4 and then soon after came ojt with Netscpe Communicator version 4 and then deicded thehy did not wnt 2 products so driped the stand-alone browser to have the wuite also and did your parents really need an IRC client or an html editor?

I also remember the first post-Mozilla Netscape releases: they were unusable bloaty abominations for someone on a 128MB Deceleron shoebox

...when they dared starting up, which was not often

tomman: there was the one AOL thing that has a unified front end and someohow worked with the IE and gecko backend and you could select show as IE or whow as Netscpe.

I think that was called Netscape version 9

WG9s_: by then I had already settled on Firefox

version 8 I missed by a key there

IIRC I dumped IE6 for Mozilla Suite circa 2002

(IE6 was faster, but very crashy)

but netcpae 4 was last version with the stand-alone browser before the AOL netscpae 8 thing

after that was suite only

Prior that, I used NS4 but many sites I relied on back then were unusable (sounds familiar?)

they skipped verion 5 becuase anted to catch up wiht Microsoft becuase they were at verion 6 and did not want seem to be behid becuase of verion numbers

also, NS4 felt more heavy when compared to IE, but was clearly lighter than initial Mozilla Suite releases

Netspce 6 never atchally seemed to work and Netscape version 7 did not work correctly with proxies so 7.1 was teh next version I actually thought even usable.

back then Google was just the fallback that Yahoo used when it ran out of results, and "chrome" was a word I heard first on Mozilla :D

netscape 6 was based on pre-1.0 gecko

andI think that was actullhy the last actul before Mozilla spit version I think version 8 was a last gasp AOL thing.

version 8 was modified firefox

with whore features a shit done of them

I ran NN 3 gold on 386sx, NN4 was far away needing Pentium to render same sites

anyway the reason on xr that i indexed 0.9.4.1 was it was the basis for the last version of Netscape 6 so it might be significant.. Netscape 7's last version was gecko/1.7

WG9s_: xr.binaryoutcast.com

i should add comm-1.9.2 and comm-esr24 and comm-esr38

at some point

for reference

... cross reference

lol

I don't remember if netsacpe 6 had this issue but netscape 7 was unusable for me from work because our only access to the internet was via proxies but the browser even if using a proxy refused to let you connect to anything it could not resolve in dns.

i am pretty happy with what I have done with the navigator component

red logo on throbber because trunk build

windows 8+ personal.mattatobin.com/image/captu…8f1-2af3-4f6f-8304-719af1d9b80c.jpg

SPEAKING OF.. there are some patches you might want.. like not having WHITE dialog color n such

Funny thing is I also wrote some code for the ill fated never released Mosaic version 3 which implemented a proxy method called split DNS. the way it worked was if the hostname resolved, it connected directly if it did not resolve then it used the defined proxy. This worked great!

did not need a complicated proxy.pac file to try to determine which things were inside and which were outside

Hmmm, has this caused any issues for seamonkey? bugzilla.mozilla.org/1535761

those

some may not be desirable for you frg_Away but they are there if you want em

basically frg_Away WG9s_ mine aura-central (or uxp) for anything you want or need

such as code.binaryoutcast.com/projects/aura-central/commits/TRUNK/js/src

FUCKING GROSS

vord[m]:

NewTobinParadigm I am now on Server 2019 most of the time but still run 7 and 8.1. Will export them and check but no promise. Swamped with stuff.

Btw. this should be applyable to an originally 52 based one too: comm-central/994b05cff95d

frg_Away: i was just offering it up if you want

NewTobinParadigm: I assume the underlying implementation still relies on XPConnect, its just hidden more

frg_Away: oh will THAT actually fix the feeds issue?

NewTobinParadigm if it fixes stuff I usally always want to.

a one liner

have to find and revert my half-assed didn't actually fix shit commit lol

least that means i can put off moving to Phoenix RSS code for a while longer

yes fixes it. Accidently removed. Thought it was time to actually do someting in suite for a few hours then.

thank you frg_Away

guess it makes sense for browser.html

but i think for what I am doing I'd like to keep es modules and js modules as a seperate thing

besides.. moonchild STILL couldn't get dynamic es modules working

only basic es modules

I believe there is a long list of things moonchild can't get working

but in mozilla's view relying on shitty sandboxing that doesn't work in multiprocess with a backup of principle scope in browser.html it makes sense

vord[m]: yeah

but 5 critical things

but maybe the tobin hate will fuel new development and then i will simply come along and import it to MAH platform

right vord[m]

so while it sucks there won't be a unified front and i have to make extra sure what I import doesn't go off the rails.. there IS something easier about this now from my perspective

so in the long term I think it will be a win for me

despite the difficulies in the short term

I don't really get what the pale moon community (whatever is left) wants

Firefox 3.x UI was peak browser UI

we've been on freefall since then

tomman: except for places

default theme wise 2 was superior

3 was fine on AREO

but not on luna or classic

I'm surprised places hasn't been abandoned yet

vord[m]: The Pale Moon community wants every Firefox Extension ever made to stay working while having all the latest chrome shineys AND for the UI to never change unless they want several conflicting changes that will piss one majority or another off

lol

they also want full theme and persona theming to customize everything but for nothing to ever change

they also want to know how to do everything without actually learning how to do anything

This is what the userbase wants

NewTobinParadigm: I don't see the point

Most firefox extensions were not very good

they won't read or retain anything but will spread false conclusions made by people who have never used the software to every corner of the earth

vord[m]: the earlier extensions were fantastic

jetpack extensions were mostly shit or service extensions targeting an incarnation of a service from 6 years ago

I'm just saying, at the peak, there was a lot of garbage

It seems accepting some breakage to move the platform forward would benefit users in the long term

only because Mozilla went to automated review and the hoo-mons were purged or reassigned

hell now they just slap a banner that says not a recommended extension

how do they expect chrome shineys without platform changes that break extensions?

It sounds like pale moon users don't understand the software they're using!

vord[m]: of course but PTSD from Mozilla taking away everything from them results in pitchforks and torches whenever a single pixel is changed

vord[m]: they really don't

when Moonchild introduced a 1px gap between tabs the entire userbase revolted

lol

Mozilla has seen its own stuff like tabs on top

which no one wanted but then removing tabs on bottom was even worse

oh god, Chrome 100 is now a thing

WHY

Actually chrome 101 is now a thing

because version numbers are merely marketing fiction now

(and soon, FF100 will also be a thing)

FF100 is shipping in like 10 days

Nightly is already v101

hope $FORMER_BOSS has fixed that version check regex on $A_CERTAIN_PRODUCT production releases :)

i wrote that in 2014

I should get back to writing again

the New Binary Outcast site will have a blog/news post-based content feature and it would be good to start writing again

Meeting notes are done:

and now back to real life and way.

^away

>real life

the day Real Life™ ships version 100, I'm out

well tomman seems this isn't real life

according to frg

"TypeError: this.attachShadow is not a function"

GAAAAAH, GIGGITYHUB!!!

how many times we do need to work around the same Chromeism?!

oh wait

D'OH!

I forgot I had enabled dom.webcomponents.enabled for pleasing Pixiv

that of course breaks GitHub (even with JustOff's addon - I guess it doesn't expect "native" WebComponents® support, or falls back or whatever)

so yeah, my fault

must pick: cute Japanese anime drawings, or bugtrackers

...both are infected with the Chromeisms

i am eventually gonna have to get homerchu building so a buddy can produce their Basilisk fork

australis is gross

basically I am kicking Firefox components out of my platform and will redesign or replace components with communicator style versions

which unlike Firefox 4 and 29 shit has a rather application agnostic design

basically consider it XPFE 2.0

:P

I'll gaurd those behind MOZ_LEGACY and the application can provide its own shit if it wants

but yeah

i am building a communicator platform

not a firefox one

heh

so basically a Non-Chromeist Electron?

of course I know eventually web clients will fail without help but by the time that comes I should have a decent offering of applications that aren't web clients that will keep it going

tomman: no not XULRunner

things like the cookie and permissions manager .. the true download manager etc will all be considered "toolkit" components

tho i don't use the toolkit name

in my restructure i merely have components in a components/ directory

tho this is largely irrelevant HERE

but i don't explcitly intend on advertising or whatever

idc if no one uses my stuff

has no barring on me doing or creating things

tomman: code.binaryoutcast.com/projects/aura-central/issues/10