01:37:18 <Fraser_Bell> Hi.  Seamonkey suddenly today is not showing YouTube, just getting a blank page.  Tried a fresh profile, still no luck.  Anybody know why?
01:37:51 <tomman> Google?
01:37:56 <IanN_Away> Fraser_Bell: bad sniffing by YouTube
01:38:09 <tomman> ...works fine here
01:38:31 <IanN_Away> tomman: do you have any useragent exceptions though?
01:38:36 <tomman> I rarely -if ever- use YT, but just loaded some video
01:38:44 <tomman> IanN_Away: not for YouTube
01:38:46 <tomman> but for Google
01:39:14 <Fraser_Bell> IanN_Away: Was working all along, including last night.
01:39:18 <tomman> ...and even the Google one is set to FF61
01:39:59 <Fraser_Bell> Ideas how to fix, or ???  Firefox is working fine, but that is not really what I want.
01:40:14 <tomman> Fraser_Bell: are you running any adblocker?
01:40:21 <tomman> or script blocker?
01:40:36 <tomman> oh, you said it doesn't work on a clean profile
01:40:50 <Fraser_Bell> Nothing at all in Seamonkey.  Adblockers and so on in Firefox, and it is working just fine.
01:41:21 <IanN_Away> Fraser_Bell: what is your HTTP Networking set to under Advanced in preferences?
01:42:02 <MrMazda> Fraser_Bell: long time no see on IRC
01:42:04 <a-865> Fraser_Bell: long time no see on IRC
01:42:25 <IanN_Away> Fraser_Bell: and what does the User agent string say when you do Help, About SeaMonkey?
01:42:36 <Fraser_Bell> HTTP 1.1
01:43:01 <IanN_Away> Fraser_Bell: sorry I meant the User Agent part of that page
01:43:35 <Fraser_Bell> Identify as Seamonkey is currently chosen, but I tried the other two (ID as Firefox, then ID as Seamonkey but advertise Firefox compatibility) but none worked.
01:43:58 <tomman> Fraser_Bell: Two things worth trying, just in case Google is doing A/B testing with you
01:44:15 <tomman> 1) Check the error console to rule out any Javascript errors
01:44:49 <tomman> 2) Try with a user agent override (Google *really* dislikes SeaMonkey these days)
01:45:44 <Fraser_Bell> IanN_Away:  User agent says:  Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.53.8.1
01:46:52 <Fraser_Bell> Switched to advert as FFX, now says:  Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/60.0 SeaMonkey/2.53.8.1
01:47:15 <tomman> try an user agent WITHOUT the SeaMonkey token
01:47:23 <Fraser_Bell> How?
01:47:58 <tomman> general.useragent.override.<DOMAIN> on about:prefs
01:48:17 <tomman> I already had to set up one for google.com, otherwise I would get cellphone pages
01:48:52 <tomman> curiously, I have none for YouTube (as I've said, I don't use it), but maybe it still works because I'm logged in, or the Google override does somehting, or...
01:52:58 <Fraser_Bell> MrMazda:  hi
01:53:13 <Fraser_Bell> a-865: hi
01:54:57 <Fraser_Bell> tomman:  More specific?  Is it "general.useragent.override.youtube.com", or "general.useragent.override" with the String set as the YouTube address?
01:55:04 <tomman> the first
01:55:30 <tomman> general.useragent.override.youtube.com = Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/68.0
01:55:40 <tomman> or try first with one for google.com
02:01:00 <Fraser_Bell> I put it in both, but I used rv:91.0 and Firefox/91.0
02:01:11 <Fraser_Bell> Those are the versions of FFX installed
02:01:14 <Fraser_Bell> It worked.
02:01:30 <Fraser_Bell> tomman:  Thank you
02:01:43 <IanN_Away> Fraser_Bell: 2.53.10 will have Firefox/68.0 as default in the user agent
02:01:47 <tomman> Iiiiinteresting
02:02:08 <tomman> ah, I'm using 2.53.10b1, that's why I haven't noticed, I guess
02:02:22 <IanN_Away> tomman: yeah that would have 68 in too
02:02:29 <tomman> Google still serves me cellphone pages as soon as it detects the SeaMonkey token, no matter which Firefox version it reports
02:03:22 <tomman> and now, it also blocks me from using Google Drive too, unless if I pretend to "just use outdated Firefox"
02:03:34 <tomman> Alphabet Inc. really wants us gone :/
02:04:06 <tomman> amazingly, after applying the required overrides, stuff works (mostly) fine
02:04:16 <tomman> the big outlier for now is GMail
02:04:27 <IanN_Away> tomman: yeah, which shows poor coding from them
02:04:50 <tomman> it's the only Google product that doesn't reject SeaMonkey (or complain that "YOUR BROWSER IS OOOOOOOOOLD; AND NOT CHROME!" just yet
02:05:46 <Fraser_Bell> IanN_Away:  Now grey matter, but I think I tried the 68.0 before trying my 91.0 and it didn't work.  Of course, maybe I just needed to close & restart the browser after changing to 68.0.  I did that after changing to 91.0 (closed and restarted) to get it to work.
02:06:47 <Fraser_Bell> Thanks, guys.
02:07:19 <IanN_Away> Fraser_Bell: what OS are you on btw? Is it downloaded or part of the distro?
02:08:34 * IanN_Away is now listening to the sound of thunderstorms on youtube
02:08:37 <Fraser_Bell> IanN_Away:  openSUSE, of course!  There isn't anything else, is there?  Yes, it is part of the distro
02:08:57 <IanN_Away> Fraser_Bell: hmmm, so they're still on 2.53.8.1?
02:09:17 <Fraser_Bell> IanN_Away:  You mean Seamonkey?
02:09:26 <IanN_Away> Fraser_Bell: yep, of SeaMonkey
02:10:15 <Fraser_Bell> IanN_Away:  Yep, looks like it.  Let me check who provides.
02:10:31 <IanN_Away> Fraser_Bell: 2.53.10 is due out in the next few days
02:12:02 <Fraser_Bell> IanN_Away:  Yep, with my distro.  And, I take it, your last mssg means due at openSUSE?
02:12:40 <IanN_Away> Fraser_Bell: no, as in released by SeaMonkey project
02:13:04 <IanN_Away> Fraser_Bell: each distro then does it's own thing
02:15:16 <Fraser_Bell> MrMazda:  Just tried to private chat with you, got this:  MrMazda :You must log into your NickServ account to message this user
02:16:41 <a-865> Fraser_Bell: I think it means no private messaging unless logged in to a registered account with libera.chat
02:17:31 <IanN_Away> never knew you could restrict it, then again I am always logged in via a registered account
02:18:24 <a-865> I didn't do anything to cause any restriction
02:18:37 <Fraser_Bell> I do not know if I have hexchat set up properly since the IRC was switched to libera
02:18:42 <a-865> at least, nothing I know of
02:19:02 <IanN_Away> maybe something libera.chat have enforced
02:19:12 <a-865> This is Chatzilla in SeaMonkey 2.53.10b1
02:20:28 <Fraser_Bell> I am not sure if I am signing in properly with hexchat, or if it is even registering with NickServ properly, or what.
02:23:09 <Fraser_Bell> Not even sure if I have my cloak anymore, either.  Long time away from the Community with Recording my Music and taking care of all the Marketing and PR associated, as well as learning about Releasing Recordings as and Independent and getting attention.
02:23:44 <Fraser_Bell> ^ as an Independent
02:24:37 <Fraser_Bell> a-865:  Felix, DuckDuckGo for Gerry Jack Macks
02:26:08 <a-865> Fraser_Bell: hit1 is FB?!?
02:26:36 <Fraser_Bell> Cowboy hat?
02:26:43 <Fraser_Bell> Shadowy figure?
02:26:57 <Fraser_Bell> a-865:  If so, yes.
02:27:23 <IanN_Away> time for some sleep, nn all
02:27:43 <Fraser_Bell> IanN_Away:  G'night, and thanks.
02:28:46 <Fraser_Bell> a-865:  GerryJackMacks.ca GerryJackMacks.net and YouTube:  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3V-gTkPx81SWRPnZa0TBwA
02:29:35 <a-865> pests get my tomatoes b4 I do
02:29:40 <Fraser_Bell> .net is my Official Site and Store at Bandzoogle, .ca and .com are my own private domain.
02:29:53 <Fraser_Bell> LOL
02:30:21 <Fraser_Bell> Also on Fbk and Instagram
02:35:24 <a-865> Fraser_Bell: your scale only goes to 250lb?
02:37:07 <Fraser_Bell> a-865:  Weight scale?  No, only goes to 11 pounds, or 5 kg
02:37:47 <Fraser_Bell> small kitchen scale
02:37:48 <a-865> bathroom scale works for me
02:38:38 <Fraser_Bell> I don't own a bathroom scale.  My weight doesn't change much at all.
02:39:07 <a-865> they're handy for weighing more than just people
02:40:18 <Fraser_Bell> ... and, I don't need to worry about it.  I just go by how many notches on the belt.  Winter, let the belt out more, Summer tighten it up (actually, this summer I had to add another hole!).
02:41:06 <Fraser_Bell> a-865:  Yes, it might be worth thinking about for next year, just so I can keep track of how my produce is doing in the garden.
02:41:23 <Fraser_Bell> PS:  You on the Libera channels?
02:42:30 <a-865> Fraser_Bell: besides here? a few, including opensuse-admin
02:43:12 <Fraser_Bell> a-865:  Okay, I am closing hexchat, will restart it properly, I can then private chat with you through Libera
13:51:07 <frg_Away> Another reason why you should not use google: https://groups.google.com/g/mozilla.support.seamonkey/
13:58:49 <njsg> the still haven't solved that?
13:59:12 <njsg> I'll say again: a silly thing here is that what probably got it "banned" was content posted using google groups
14:03:23 <frg_Away> njsg well it is "only" the archive.
14:30:10 <IanN> Meeting starts in 30 minutes - https://wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2021-11-14
14:44:56 <WaltS48> Hi ewong, frg, IanN and all
14:45:20 <IanN> hi WaltS48
14:45:24 <frg> WaltS48 Hi
14:45:28 <IanN> Meeting starts in 15 minutes - https://wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2021-11-14
14:52:54 <WG9s> HI all I am here for the meeting
14:54:01 <WaltS48> Hi WG9s
14:54:15 <WG9s> hi WaltS48
14:54:18 <tomman> hi again, coming back after today's latest blackout
14:54:22 <tomman> will there be pancakes?
14:56:06 <WaltS48> waffles
14:56:16 <WG9s> tomman: hi perhaps a better idea than Friends offthe Fish Tiank tholse who participate in the meeting get a gift certificates for pancakes, but hard to make that work Internationally.
14:56:29 <frg> ice cream
14:56:47 <IanN> Meeting starts in 5 minutes - https://wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2021-11-14
14:57:52 <njsg> hi .*
14:59:10 <IanN> hi njsg
15:01:38 <IanN> Meeting time - https://wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2021-11-14
15:01:41 <IanN> hi rsx11m
15:01:51 <frg> Hi rsx11m
15:02:02 <rsx11m> hi there!
15:02:10 <WG9s> hi rsx11m
15:02:26 <IanN> Who's taking minutes?
15:02:38 <frg> me and probably late again
15:02:53 <IanN> thanks frg
15:03:05 <IanN> Nominees for Friends of the Fish Tank?
15:03:12 <frg> Would like to nominate JustOff for the password backup tool: http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?p=14908756#p14908756
15:03:57 <rsx11m> sure
15:04:20 <WG9s> rsx11m: was that a second?
15:04:27 <IanN> I think it was :)
15:04:29 <rsx11m> sure+ :-)
15:04:39 <IanN> thirded
15:04:57 <IanN> Action Items
15:05:44 <IanN> frg has just removed another freenode reference, but nothing else I am aware of
15:06:35 <frg> Yes I think freenode is now gone. Given that they are totally irrelevant now I would not add them as a backup irc channel and close my action item here.
15:07:12 <IanN> at some point may need to remove them from cZ
15:07:34 <IanN> yeah, close it :)
15:07:44 <IanN> Status of the SeaMonkey Infrastructure
15:07:52 <frg> IanN can do this.
15:07:59 <ewx2> :)
15:08:09 <frg> Hi ewx2
15:08:10 <IanN> hi ewx2
15:08:16 <ewx2> hi guys
15:08:23 <ewx2> managed to make it to a meeting for once!
15:08:38 <frg> ewx2 cool
15:08:40 <frg> Nothing new on the Windows server.
15:08:43 <IanN> welcome ewx2
15:08:49 <WG9s> Is freenode that irrelevant now?  if they are just irrelvant for mozilla and SeaMonkey but still a relevant channel for support of other things we should not remove.
15:09:06 <ewx2> WG9s irrelevant in most aspects...
15:09:07 <WG9s> hi ewx2
15:09:14 <IanN> WG9s: no plans to remove from cZ unless it dies completely
15:09:37 <tomman> who still uses Freenode?
15:09:46 <frg> We can switch to VS2022. Server 2012 R2 supports it. Did setup a dev env and built 2.53.10.
15:09:55 <IanN> ewx2: any updates on crash stats/reports server?
15:09:59 <WG9s> OK so not removing freenode just not promiting
15:10:01 <frg> But not for the initial release for sure.
15:10:11 <tomman> it doesn't even let you login without SASL, which makes some users run away
15:10:22 <ewx2> IanN no..  still figuring the symbols info
15:10:42 <njsg> tomman: doesn't it require registration via the website now?
15:10:52 <tomman> njsg: haven't really bothered
15:11:02 <njsg> won't affect existing accounts, but it'd be another barrier for newcomers
15:11:02 <tomman> but it sends me to register on "irc.com"
15:11:20 <frg> Yes totally dead without a registration. I would remove it from cZ
15:11:57 <tomman> at this stage, pretty much everyone switched to Libera (or something else) and moved on
15:12:23 <WG9s> so is kind of the non-free node
15:12:50 <frg> Finding only references for shady crypto mining channels searching for freenode.
15:13:13 <IanN> maybe they will rebrand?
15:15:13 <rsx11m> frg: there is another channel showing up on our logbot which looks a bit "shady" or is it legit?
15:15:16 <IanN> 150 channels with 10 or more people in
15:16:16 <IanN> vs 3000 channels on libera.chat with 10 or more people in
15:16:30 <frg> rsx11m I saw. Probabyl a legit channel but all crypto is shady  :)
15:16:43 <rsx11m> very cryptic 8-)
15:17:42 <IanN> Status of the SeaMonkey Source Tree
15:18:12 <WG9s> comm-central builds all work with the patches in gitlab
15:18:14 <frg> All building thanks to WG9s.
15:18:55 <WG9s> 2.57 and 2.53 builds also all work with the gitlab patches
15:19:05 <IanN> rust 1.56.1 is out
15:19:26 <frg> 2.57 is still very much on the back burner for me. Sorry. I donÄt find the time for the rebases. But with 2.53 advancing needed less any day.
15:20:07 <IanN> did I see that patches to make 1.56.1 are being tested?
15:20:08 <WG9s> 2.53.11b1pre builds with my patch queue work with rust 1.56.1
15:20:19 <WG9s> thanks to frg
15:20:54 <WG9s> my 2.53.11b2pre are built using clan-13 and rust 1.56.1
15:21:01 <WG9s> clang-13
15:21:02 <frg> IanN Have them ready for a 2.53.10 point release too. But Only if we do one. I don't want to delay 2.53.10 ayn further.
15:21:37 <WG9s> my idea was on the if you are doing your own builds providing the required patches there
15:21:40 <IanN> Release Train
15:22:05 <WG9s> on the how to build form the tar file page saying if using rust 1.56.0 or later you need these patches
15:22:10 <frg> Depending on how fast 2.53.11 progresses maybe a 10.1 point with some more sec fixes and the 1.56.1 rust patches later.
15:22:33 <IanN> 2.53.10 should be pushed tomorrow(ish)
15:23:05 <WG9s> i also had an idea to just make it a roll-up patch that does it all in one patch
15:23:15 <frg> I installed it on some more real hardware and vms here and so far all good. Mostly Windows but also on my OpenSuse 15.3
15:24:22 <WG9s> so like for using the tar file tnis rooll-up single patch is all you need to build with 1.56.
15:24:27 <frg> The new default 68 ua might cause problems with Google if you don't advertize SeaMonkey compatibility.
15:24:59 <WG9s> we can do this offline probaly not required to wate time in this meeting
15:25:04 <tomman> actually, Google gets all angry if you DO advertise the SeaMonkey token
15:25:19 <tomman> like, breaking YouTube or sending cellphone pages for Search
15:25:22 <rsx11m> you mean both SeaMonkey and Firefox tokens, or *just* Firefox alone is allowed?
15:25:29 <tomman> just the Firefox one
15:25:37 <frg> IanN We could do 2.53.10.1 branches and I put the 2 patches for 1.56.1 in. Even if it does not come to a release they could be picked by maintainers.
15:25:55 <tomman> also Drive needs a SM-less UA
15:26:00 <tomman> only GMail works fine for now
15:26:15 <IanN> frg: yeah, I guess we could
15:26:23 <frg> I built a Firefox from the 2.53.11b1 pre code and It just shows blank items in youtube.
15:26:28 <njsg> gmail now keeps insisting in loading the full version. the option to load "simple html" used to stick in the past
15:27:22 <IanN> frg: but works in SM
15:27:30 <rsx11m> hmm, there is no mechanism to omit the application token entirely from the UA, as far as I remember, thus would need a full override
15:28:03 <frg> tomman youtube works with 68 only if you add the SeaMonkey. At least without login and my experience. They are crap anyway and if you use there services with login you should use a chrome based browser.
15:28:56 <frg> rsx11m Advanced->Http networking and Identify as SM and avdertize Fx compatibility.
15:29:11 <IanN> Extensions Tracking
15:29:13 <tomman> frg: there was an user last night that reported that YT wouldn't render at all on 2.53.9, even on a clean profile
15:29:24 <rsx11m> yes, I know - bt it will give you both tokens, not just the Firefox one alone
15:29:35 <tomman> ...but .9 of course still advertises an old FF version that YT doesn't want anymore
15:29:43 <IanN> polyfill is now on 1.2.8
15:29:43 <tomman> worth testing, but eh, I don't use YT anyway
15:29:57 <frg> tomman yes might also be another problem with their cryppy ua detection.
15:30:20 <frg> rsx11m there is also an identify as Firefox.
15:31:32 <frg> And if you need a password im-exporter there is now https://github.com/JustOff/password-backup-tool/releases/tag/1.4.1
15:32:45 <frg> The legacy generator detection in 2.53.9.1 and up seems not to work always. I am not sure I am able to fix this better. Deeply buried in Spidermonkey code.
15:32:51 <IanN> good stuff, someone should give the author a FotFT nomination
15:33:08 <frg> IanN see above :)
15:33:27 * IanN knows
15:33:39 <rsx11m> frg: I see, the "full compatibility" was added in bug 1242294
15:34:00 * frg wasn't sure
15:34:18 <frg> rsx11m yes.
15:35:15 <IanN> i must remember to add more emojis
15:35:35 <frg> IanN yes it was too straight forward :D
15:35:47 <IanN> 2.next, Feature List, Planning and Roundtable
15:36:33 <rsx11m> IanN seems to be in a hurry today ;-)
15:36:42 <WG9s> but i think the point is fi we are beint bloicked because they don;t know what SeaMonkey is, instaed of providing a completely ogus UA string to try to get around it we need to ask then to permit our string and if they refuse consider a restaint of trade lawsuit
15:37:26 <WG9s>  but cn we get back to the technical stuff?
15:37:37 <frg> google plans to no longer accept new manifest v2 extentions in 2022. Exiting ones need to switch till 2023. That might mean crippled ad blockers in 2023 only unless you run a browser still supporting xul or maybe Firefox for a while longer.
15:37:49 <frg> ^extensions
15:38:00 <ewx2> sorry... gotta head to bed..  will get teh release started tomorrow
15:38:21 <ewx2> g'night all
15:38:22 <frg> ewx2 nighty night
15:43:43 <rsx11m> frg: so, the problem is that google insists on a new manifest for extensions, which we don't support, but we assume that all add-on developers will support v2 then only, thus no longer other browsers including Firefox?
15:44:23 <rsx11m> specifically for add blockers?
15:45:37 <frg> rsx11m they want to update to manifest v3. This cripples the blocking webrequest api among other things. Other browsers might not implement this fully including Firefox but I won't bet on this.
15:46:25 <frg> Search for manifest v3 and you will find the facts fast. All in the name of privacy of course...
15:46:58 <frg> Oh I forgot in the name of security too.
15:47:06 <rsx11m> yepp, first hit is https://developer.chrome.com/docs/extensions/mv3/intro/
15:47:33 <rsx11m> "and performance"
15:47:50 <rsx11m> :-p
15:48:08 <WG9s> so I am back on the sue them for restraint of trade idea!
15:48:11 <frg> Mostly all bullshirt of course.
15:48:38 <rsx11m> they forgot "and $$$"?
15:49:38 <tomman> "CLOSED WONTFIX USECHROME HEALTHYECOSYSTEM PRIVACYFIRST"
15:50:41 <WG9s> once again can we get back to technichal and non-political issues!
15:51:02 <rsx11m> sorry, slightly off-topic ...
15:51:31 <WG9s> rsx11m: a d probably my fault as mush as anyones
15:52:55 <frg> It affects us on a technical level later. Depends how Mozilla handles this. So i think it is important. All the discussion around it is mostly irrelevant. Will be implemented.
15:53:34 <rsx11m> shall we add USECHROME as resolution to bugzilla? :-D
15:54:19 <WG9s> rsx11m: funnything with what m$ is doing with version 11 would need a USEEDGE
15:54:19 * frg groans
15:54:38 * rsx11m shuts up now
15:55:12 <WG9s> they just changed things so that you cannot override using edge as the borwser for some functions no matter aht you change in settings
15:56:27 <frg> Nothing to add to planning. bau
15:56:45 <WaltS48> What functions does one use a browser for other that visit web sites?
15:56:47 <IanN> ditto
15:57:04 <WG9s> let me find the article
15:57:57 <WG9s> https://feedly.com/i/collection/content/user/fc29a1f6-3d5c-476b-bf57-11ee13640de5/category/global.all
15:58:49 <frg> Maybe as a addendum to extensions. cZ is now localized in a few more languages. el was just completed for 2.53.10.
15:59:10 <IanN> all good :)
15:59:43 <WG9s> a better link https://www.thurrott.com/windows/windows-11/259208/windows-11-to-block-windows-11-browser-workarounds
16:00:41 <frg> IanN maybe you can ask flod to clean up strings again. Merging back to 2.53.x is a bit hard right now becuase of all the removals.
16:01:41 <IanN> frg: yeah, i'll ask soon
16:02:59 <frg> Adn we could use a few more localizers for a few languages but not sure if we can do something about it. Didn't see complaints about untranslated stuff either.
16:03:06 <IanN> Anything else on 2.Next, Feature List, Planning and Roundtable
16:03:47 <frg> no++
16:03:57 <IanN> AOB?
16:04:30 <IanN> current AOB seems to be out of date...
16:04:35 <rsx11m> 28th is the Thanksgiving weekend
16:04:38 <rsx11m> don't know about other, but I'll be away
16:04:38 <njsg> WaltS48: run webapps, apparently :-)
16:04:54 <rsx11m> I left it open on purpose
16:05:10 <IanN> still plan to meet on 28th
16:05:32 <tomman> njsg: remember that the browser is the new OS, sadly
16:05:36 <frg> 28th is ok with me too.
16:05:36 <rsx11m> ok, someone else will have to send out the invites then
16:05:47 <WG9s> iam open to a week off already fixed the timezone issue in my calendar alerts i think
16:05:50 <tomman> we don't do Thanksgiving in South America
16:06:03 <rsx11m> I can still prepare the meeting notes early in the week
16:06:36 <njsg> we don't do thanksgiving here but I think black friday is now becoming a thing
16:06:38 <IanN> unless we push back a week and do 5th Dec and 19th Dec?
16:07:54 <frg> Would be better I think 19th and 2nd then
16:08:15 <frg> plus the 5th
16:08:29 <rsx11m> I'm fine either way, missing a couple of meetings in any case
16:08:58 <IanN> might start back on 9th
16:09:09 <WG9s> i mayh have misspoke when i said skip a eeek i was not suggesting skipping a meeting my idea was doing it a week later and going on fromthere
16:09:34 <rsx11m> WG9s: the week after the 28th would be the 5th
16:09:35 <IanN> WG9s: yeah, that is what we are saying too
16:09:55 <IanN> same hymn sheet
16:11:56 <IanN> so next meeting is in 3 weeks time on 5th December
16:12:04 <IanN> thanks for your time today
16:12:15 <rsx11m> sounds good!
16:12:17 <IanN> same bat channel, same bat time
16:12:43 <frg> 9th might not be so good for me. Still planning a pinball event on the 7th and friends might still be here. But we can discuss it at the last dec meeeting.
16:14:29 <WaltS48> pinball! Have I mentioned I used to repair those back in the 1970s?
16:14:32 <rsx11m> AOB updated for next time ;-)
16:14:50 <frg> WaltS48 yes
16:16:22 <rsx11m> bye everyone
16:16:23 <IanN> thanks rsx11m
16:16:25 <IanN> by rsx11m
16:16:28 <IanN> *bye
16:17:34 <frg> bye rsx11m
16:18:34 <frg_Away> away and here
19:29:54 <frg_Away> mlh85386 The rust target is derived from the build target. I doubt there is any version specifically targeting such an ancient cpu available.
20:12:17 <mlh85386> frg_away: thank you for providing the information. I hope I got you: The rust compiler rustc gets the settings made for the build procedure in general, i.e. for gcc in the case here
20:21:18 <buc> Seeing clean "Firefox >= 63.0" in UA string (without SM mention), youtube assumes that the browser should support customElements.
20:24:36 <buc> What sites (for example) have recently started demanding FF >= 68.0 ?
20:29:57 <tomman> buc: Google Drive
20:30:04 <tomman> lemme recheck just in case
20:30:40 <buc> Could you also provide an example link here?
20:31:08 <tomman> just go to drive.google.com
20:31:36 <tomman> with FF <68, it will redirect you to an help page telling you that you're doing wrong by not using Chrome, er, using an outdated browser
20:32:13 <tomman> with FF>=68, it loads, although it warns of "incompatible browser", but it doesn't block you anymore from using it
20:32:40 <buc> toman: Hmmm.  Seems work for me (without any redirects)...
20:32:53 <tomman> in 2.53.9 or .10?
20:33:01 <buc> tomman: 2.53.8.1
20:33:03 <tomman> remember that .10 now identifies as FF68
20:33:19 <buc> tomman: plus 'identify as Firefox" only
20:33:46 <tomman> on .9 with stock settings, it identifies as FF61, and Google will block it
20:34:07 <buc> FF61 ???
20:34:46 <tomman> er, FF60
20:35:09 <tomman> just checked on my other setup
20:35:26 <tomman> Another fine (and more egregious) example is Google search
20:35:38 <tomman> it will accept any Firefox version...
20:35:50 <tomman> ...but as soon as it sees the SeaMonkey token, it serves cellphone pages
20:35:58 <tomman> drop the SM token and you'll get regular pages
20:36:16 <buc> tomman: Google search is OK, since we (in Fedora) just do not mention SM by default.
20:36:46 <buc> tomman: You have chekced drive.goole.com under your es_AR locale?
20:36:58 <tomman> yup
20:37:17 <tomman> locale doesn't seem to matter
20:37:35 <tomman> all Drive cares is that it wants FF68
20:38:31 <tomman> in this case, the SeaMonkey token doesn't matter
20:38:44 <buc> tomman: All works for me even with es-ve . FF60 without SM token.
20:38:44 <tomman> who would have guessed it: different Google teams have different priorities
20:39:02 <tomman> only GMail doesn't actively exclude our "ooooooooooold" browsers
20:39:07 <buc> tomman: Maybe clear cache on your tests?
20:40:45 <tomman> cleared cache
20:40:47 <tomman> results are the same
20:41:12 <tomman> FWIW, I'm logged into my Google account
20:41:27 <buc> tomman: Then maybe safe mode?
20:42:26 <tomman> Better yet: I'm testing with a clean profile which has never seen my Google account, ever
20:43:48 <tomman> ....and the result is interesting: drive.google.com lets me log in to Google (as expected), then.. "Update your browser"
20:43:58 <tomman> so yeah, it's purely user agent based
20:44:44 <tomman> once again, can't rule out that Google is doing A/B testing based on your location, etc.
20:44:57 <tomman> In any case, here is what I know:
20:45:18 <tomman> 1) Google search: serves cellphone pages if it detects the SeaMonkey token
20:45:47 <tomman> 2) Drive: wants FF68 at least, will redirect to an "update your browser" help page otherwise
20:45:58 <tomman> 3) YouTube: also wants FF68 at least
20:46:10 <tomman> 4) GMail: doesn't seem to care!
20:46:48 <buc> YouTube wants customElements if FF >= 63, so stay on FF60, or mention something (like SM)
20:47:10 <tomman> An user last night was complaining that he was getting blank pages on YouTube
20:47:21 <tomman> after switching his user agent to FF68, it started working
20:48:29 <tomman> can't remember if he did dropped the SM token or not
20:48:34 <njsg> let me see the post
20:49:00 <tomman> https://ircbot.comm-central.org:8080/seamonkey/20211114
20:49:22 <tomman> and oh joy, it's at the very beginning of today's log
20:50:19 <njsg> Barry, who said it started working, has "[...] Firefox/68.0 SeaMonkey/2.53.10"
20:51:09 <njsg> in news://news.aioe.org/smq8u2$9m3$1⊙gao
20:54:50 <buc> njsg: Yep, working because of SM mention. Does not work with FF68 only.
20:56:06 <buc> tomman: Well, cannot log in into my old gmail account, since it is no more login+password :(
21:12:05 <buc> tomman: Does drive.google.com start page works for you when you are NOT logged in?
21:23:55 <buc> Well, believing that youtube is more important to users than google drive, I'll tend to keep the old FF60 for a while at downstream level...
23:15:21 <mlh85386> It's getting late in Germany. Good night.