07:54:34 tomman: heh. in the distant past, you couldn't have any kind of standard non-web access to Hotmail, I think perhaps Outlook Express supported it like Netscape did support AOL(?) webmail. Now they do IMAP 08:06:32 IanN_Away: throwing through the window a *working* terminal to see how the CRT exploded? 08:07:41 yeah, I'd be annoyed 12:27:56 hi, how do I make use of the zipped crash symbols at WG9s' nightly build server? is it not possible to bundle them to the build like what the beta builds did? 12:29:00 it sucks that I can't provide a complete crash report everytime I get an AsyncShutdownTimeout, like this one: http://crash-stats.mozilla.com/report/index/bp-8cbd32f7-05db-4d48-86b3-895200210927 12:30:15 if i budle into the builds then people compalin abou tthe build size. we should maybe develop a tutorial page on how to use the symbols file with gdb for linux users and how to sue them under windows. 12:30:36 the beta builds had crash symbols bundled, but they weren't 300+ mb 12:31:19 the zipped symbols are around 10mb, so it should be possible to only include the relevant crash reporter symbols, not the full one 12:31:38 one would think this info should already on the mozilla developers wiki but Iif it is I can;t find. this issue will perhaps dissapear once we have our own crash server becuase i will probly then be able to upload the symbols 12:51:43 njsg: back in the Dark IEisms Ages, only Outlook Express (not even full Outlook) supported Hotmail access, but it wasn't over POP/IMAP 12:52:08 it used a unhealthy dose of OE widgets over ActiveX, with the whole thing served over HTTP(S) 12:52:31 at some point they started offering POP access, for a fee (similar to Yahoo) 12:53:21 dunno when they finally dropped the fee, I've been using my long-forgotten Hotmail (now Outlook) account with Mail&News over POP3 since 2019 with almost no friction 12:54:14 (other than being forced through cellphone SMS crap if you dare using alternate identities because MS will think you're a spammer, but that seems to be a one-time unlock) 12:54:54 Yahoo STILL does free mail, and STILL charges for POP/IMAP, and their email UI is STILL garbage (but now JS-rich!) 12:55:08 job looks like this one https://crash-stats.mozilla.org/report/index/833441a7-6add-4983-9342-44ca80210925#tab-details 12:55:24 do they *charge*? aren't they part of the whole Yahoo-AOL-Verizon-etc service? 12:56:19 my aol mail account has imap for free 12:56:51 job looking at the related bugs not much luck it seems. Suspect extension related but just a hunch. I usually see this when I test using a web extension but not the case here. 12:57:10 I surely hope they don't charge for "8BITMIME" SMTP access. 12:57:19 s@access@service@ 12:57:38 or maybe getting 8bit-clean smtp is a paid extra 13:07:03 well job has left but njsg is helping me develop some info I can add to a README file in my symbols folder 13:22:31 njsg: yup, Yahoo Mail charges for POP3 access (dunno about IMAP, as I don't use it) 13:22:50 they also charge for getting rid of ads (which are quite intrusive, even with a DNS-based adblocker) 13:24:02 while Y!Mail accounts are a rarity here, I do know (and regularly help using) of someone that still keeps her Yahoo account 13:24:19 their webmail UI gets increasingly bloated and unusable, even on vanilla Firefox 13:25:11 in other news, I'm amazed that Google hasn't purposely broken GMail on "legacy" browsers 13:25:24 ...yet 13:26:14 (I still have to use their webmail UI to manually flag junk that manages to get past the spam filters - thankfully Mail&News is my final line of defense!) 13:53:58 stupid question, do *I* still have a yahoo account? 13:56:24 oh, apparently, possibly yes... 14:02:23 I did had one, like 15 years ago or so 14:02:31 never used it for email, but for groups 14:02:46 ...ah, mailing lists about random hobbies 14:02:50 I miss them~ 14:03:23 hopefully there are some corners of USENET which are like that 14:03:40 (the Yahoo Group where I was eventually migrated to Farcebook, and that's where I dropped off the bus... ironcally it was a group of fans of busses!) 14:04:22 with the death of Yahoo Groups, my Y! account lost all its meaning in life, so I just abandoned it 14:05:24 similar fate had my Hotmail account, until I got forced to revive it because I couldn't afford paying my personal domain anymore, so I claimed it back in 2019 14:05:27 I wonder if they're still mangling outgoing messages 14:05:50 (I wasn't joking about 8-bit-clean being an optional extra, no idea if it's an extra, but it at least isn't part of the base offering) 15:00:13 wat 15:00:16 habemus release? 15:00:47 I'm getting prompted to update now here to 2.53.9.1 15:05:23 tomman oh it is in https://archive.mozilla.org/pub/seamonkey/tmp/releases/2.53.9.1/ but not yet in release. Seems ewong pushed it already to the update server. If you are running 2.53.9 go for it. Minor release and should make things better not worse :) 15:05:38 awesome then~ 15:06:01 ...and the autoupdater failed: "unknown reason" 15:07:50 tomman probably because code not yet in final location. You can grab the full package from tmp if you want it now. 15:08:03 Will wait until the dust settles then 15:21:47 OK since I got nothing but bad response to my trying to include symbols for my builds that it was too much trouble to do that and they are no longer avialbale 15:28:26 so bakc to not enabling debug-symbols but not doing a strip 16:57:14 so you people pissed me off about waht you wanted for debugging. my feeling is if you want more debugging than I provide you should be doing youur own builds 17:10:01 for anyone who asked for full debugging symbols and then compalined that you did not no what to do with those, I am no longer doing that. as a compromise i am includeing the sytem form a notmal compile and not stippeing those. my feeling is anyone who has a need for further debugging sybols shoold be doing their own builds!