11:17:43 I am Roshan Salian and looking forward to contribute to SeaMonkey project. I would like to help with QA. 11:17:43 Is this community active? 11:18:20 roshan[m] yes it is active 11:21:50 roshan[m] what would you like to do? bug verification or testing? 11:30:16 Either is fine honestly 11:30:16 I landed here looking to contribute to open source/mozilla. 11:30:59 and I found SeaMonkey interesting and aligned with my skills. 11:32:34 roshan[m] SeaMonkey is actually not mozilla. We still share some resources like bugzilla and the source repos with Thunderbird and Mozilla but on the other side this is no longer any real interest in this. So we slowly move away with our own infrasturcture and services. If you want to help out you can look at bugzilla 11:32:35 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?order=Importance&list_id=13985985&resolution=---&chfieldto=Now&query_format=advanced&chfieldfrom=2018-01-01&bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&product=SeaMonkey 11:34:31 Some unconfirmed bugs need confirmation but some are about website breakage and I frankly don't look at them any longer. I know that google and company break us frequently and we need to expand support for better web compatibility. 11:35:27 If you want to build SeaMonkey it is a bit compicated. Basically the 2.53 tree is the only one fully working. comm-central is frequently updated but we still play catch-up. 11:40:14 I will first try building the 2.53v. 11:40:14 Thanks 11:42:46 The 2.53.9b1 sources in our gitlab repo are the most up to date right now unless you want to go bleeding edge with a hg repo based on Gecko 56 and about 10000 patches :) Final 2.53.9 branches are already there but not populated yet. 2.53.9b1 tarball can also be used. 11:43:12 roshan[m] Which OS Linux or Windows? 11:43:20 Windows 11:45:37 You can check out mozilla central and use mach boostrap to get a working environment. mozbuild 3.3 is supported. We also support VS2019 for x64 and VS2017 for x86 and x64 builds. SDK up to 19041. The latest one seems to break shared mailnews code. 11:46:04 Preliminary support for VS2022 will be in the next release. 11:48:04 Some mozconfigs you can use: 11:48:05 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=9228223 11:50:03 Thanks, I will start setting up the environment. 11:51:18 mapi headers are now integrated with 2.53.9. You no longer need to download them. MS has also removed the source package. If you run into problems send me an email. I have a prelininary setup gude for compiler and tools. But a but outdated now. 11:53:25 I will contact if I am stuck. Thanks. 11:53:51 ^bit outdated :) 11:54:05 * frg_Away typing too fast again 12:04:56 * WG9s_ says he is 71, so his butt is outdated also! 13:30:09 hi WaltS48 13:30:36 hi WaltS48 13:30:42 Meeting in 30 minutes - https://wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2021-08-22 13:30:46 Hi WaltS48 13:30:53 Hi WG9s_ and IanN 13:31:06 I am here for the meeting! 13:31:29 since my conflicting things were all cancelled due to impending hurricane! 13:31:55 I was just going to ask about that meeting, Didn't see the forwarded email, or am I just impatient. 13:33:46 WaltS48: just go to https://wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings select the most recent meeting and it will say when next meeting is 13:34:02 Henri has been downgraded. 13:34:25 or will be the date of next meeting 13:34:56 I have the meeting in my calendar, but... 13:35:13 I don't get any email announcements 13:35:49 WaltS48: it appeared on dev-apps-seamonkey list 13:36:04 Well, it was forwarded to the a.c.s.seamonkey newsgroup. 13:36:08 WaltS48: i know if you miss a meeting you might miss announcement that due to vacations or local holidays the next meeting is in three weeks instead of two 13:36:37 WaltS48: yeah, looks like it was missed on the newsgroup this time around 13:38:16 WaltS48: anyway you are at the right place at the right time! 13:39:03 :) 13:39:36 both of my events were outside so rain and potential flooding was enough to cancel both things! 13:41:56 When I lived in New Orleans I went out on a date in a tropical storm. The lady decided the weather was too bad and wanted to go back home. 13:42:16 WaltS48 I forgot to repost in a.c.s.seamonkey. But the last time basically no feedback and so not important I think. Usually I see the same faces here :) 13:43:17 WaltS48: so a win there? 13:44:43 or was it she wanted to go back home alone? 13:45:59 We went to separate homes. Don't recall ever seeing her again, but I am old. 13:48:23 Meeting in 12 minutes - https://wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2021-08-22 13:49:42 Back then I was younger and dumb enough to go out in weather like that being from the north. 13:50:30 Now, I'm back north and don't go out in a drizzle. 13:51:08 WaltS48 I still like to do this occasionally. Feeling a bit more alive when the world seems to end flooded around me :) 13:57:19 I'm going to read the notes. Just checked and I need to get ready to catch a couple bands at Picklesburgh since I rely on public transportation to get around. Have a good meeting! 13:57:42 Meeting in 3 minutes - https://wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2021-08-22 14:00:04 Hi everyone 14:00:35 Meeting time - https://wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2021-08-22 14:00:53 hi rsx11m 14:00:54 Hi rsx11m 14:01:05 hi rsx11m 14:01:09 hi WG9s_ frg IanN 14:03:31 who's taking notes? 14:03:36 me 14:03:43 thanks frg 14:03:46 late as usual probably 14:03:51 nominations for FotFT? 14:04:03 Rainer Bielefeld for support work 14:04:28 seconded 14:05:51 Action Items 14:06:29 Nothing new I think. 14:06:36 bau 14:07:56 Still have libera fixes on the radar but always sidetracked or something else coming up. 14:08:57 yeah 14:09:12 Status of the SeaMonkey Infrastructure 14:09:42 Updates seem to be not working currently. 14:10:10 i've just emailed ewong about it with the error message 14:11:02 ewong stated that they are a bit slow recently so I thought it was latest beta only but all over the board. 14:11:44 i've checked with both 2.53.7.1 and 2.53.8 14:11:58 2.53.6 yesterday too 14:12:04 looks like a server side issue though so might not be a reason to delay release 14:12:35 No did work with the releases previously so server side. 14:12:45 ewong: would be looking at the updates server as part of the release so best he has a heads up 14:13:51 anything on rust? 14:13:56 or VS? 14:14:43 rust 1.54 is supported with 2.53.9b1 and up. VS2022 will be supported in 2.53.10. 14:15:06 Status of the SeaMonkey Source Tree 14:15:37 VS2022 is still prerelease stuff and I am not a compiler expert but builds and runs fine. Mostly the same as VS2019 but now moved to the 64 bit program files dir. 14:16:39 All building I thinl. I started to sync 2.57 with the latest 2.53 fixes. Slow go because mozilla reformatted ESR60. Neither the original nor the 2.53 patches for c c++ stuff apply clean. 14:16:59 ^I think 14:17:38 yeah, a painful process 14:18:08 frg: and some fun and games with intl? 14:19:08 IanN there will be. When I was younger and dumb 3 years ago I initially backported intl fixes without takes some prerequisites. 14:19:40 Need to fix this for further applying Spidermonkey fixes. Takes too much time. 14:20:08 Maybe next week. 14:20:39 Release Train 14:20:44 hi 14:20:47 * njsg is definitely late 14:20:52 Hi njsg 14:21:01 hi njsg 14:21:08 As long as you are not the late njsg :D 14:22:42 frg: https://c.tenor.com/If4TI1VXxzMAAAAM/smack-slap.gif 14:22:58 the ghost of njsg past! 14:23:32 so we are expecting to release 2.53.9 during the next week 14:23:55 target is 25th but we will see how things go 14:24:50 Probably finializing fixes which will go into it today. Also translators have updated some languages. I think the are all mostly complete now. 14:25:05 cZ still has a few rough edges in some 14:26:04 cZ didn't have strings exposed until recently so some locales were behind anyway 14:26:56 Yes and more changes to come. So better than before in any case. 14:28:11 yes, keep on keeping on 14:28:58 Extension tracking 14:29:53 github-wc-polyfill is on version 1.2.3 14:31:33 what is left on Flash removal? 14:32:37 Much. When backporting I don't take npapi but but need to be careful. 14:33:59 Even not working still want to keep eme support 14:34:14 ok 14:34:26 is eme tied to flash? 14:34:39 thought that was for html5 videos... 14:34:47 No but ppapi plugin support. 14:35:08 So just can't rip out everything with plugin in the name. 14:35:23 ah, interesting 14:36:00 easy to confuse npapi with ppapi 14:37:02 Always testing with a Firefox built from our code when I do rip outs. CDM is now at V10 but this can be done. Waterfox already did. I think some mouse support might be broken with Amazon watching free trailers at least. Pause needs keyboard interaction. 14:37:23 But overall works. 14:37:41 * rsx11m thought "pp"api was a typo 14:38:18 EME is still crap but we know how much bomus points we get by making a stand against it ... 14:38:32 Well not working anyway in SM currently. 14:38:40 IanN I thought it was obvious npapi was n for netscape aka Mozilla. ppapi was p for pepper aka Google. 14:39:47 Hi tomman 14:39:55 yo frg~ 14:40:02 coming back from a 8-hour blackout 14:40:17 including no less than 4 failed startups because, well, our power grid is a meme 14:40:36 is today meeting day? 14:40:54 tomman: why yes it is! 14:41:01 tomman in the middle of it 14:41:16 at extensions 14:41:30 https://ircbot.comm-central.org:8080/seamonkey/20210822 14:42:28 2.Next, Feature List, Planning and Roundtable 14:42:35 wrt npapi. Want to get rid of the gtk2 stuff next. Not sure how many prerequsiites it needs. 14:43:27 perhaps i should have mentioned this during source tree 14:43:44 i thought that was abbout m/c -central 14:43:47 always scheming and planning as usual bau 14:44:20 2.53 with current gitlab patches now builds and runs on aarch64 hardware but without gecko proviler 14:44:45 2.57 with current gitlab patches now builds and runs on aarch64 hardware with gecko profiler 14:45:22 Might get an M1 mini mac too in the next 2 months. More fun to play with. 14:45:29 based on my success here I might try to get macOS cross compiles for macos for the new apple arm processor working 14:46:08 WG9s_ mac needs some more stuff first I think. 14:46:47 but mozilla gueus are now doing firefox for trhat processor builds on nightly 14:46:48 Persoanlly I also would like to not do universal binaries. And native arm might need notarization. urgkkk. 14:48:29 What about ARM64 on Linux? 14:48:47 tomman works 14:48:59 or should do 14:49:07 yes 14:49:27 would be a interesting experience for RPi owners 14:49:37 tomman: aarch64 IS arm64 so should work. 14:52:38 Anyone suggesting 32 bit builds? If yes I will come over and try to make some personal statements: https://www.guerilla-marketing-blog.de/images/ikea-kloppe.jpg 14:52:42 biggest issue our tester had was confused about autoconf and did not realize that 213 was the specific version needed so had a later version and thought that was fine 14:52:42 :) 14:52:52 * frg waiting for the fish 14:53:16 2.13 14:53:27 all sorted now? 14:53:44 * njsg suggests 16 bit builds 14:54:08 I have an old 8-bit processor 14:54:16 Have the needed patches for inlining 2.13 in but needs more build fixes first 14:54:20 anything for my 386SX-40 with Windows 95? :D 14:54:39 rust to the resuce here. No 8 bit or 16 bit ports. 14:55:26 I think all, uh, desktop/laptop computers I have here can do IA32, not sure about the other computers 14:56:31 so back to 2.Next, Feature List, Planning and Roundtable 14:56:42 bau 14:56:52 yes, 2.Next, Feature List, Planning and Roundtable 14:58:38 still bau :) 15:00:01 On feature list frg gave me a patch to look at to get webextensions working. does not look easy, but I am willing to try! 15:00:16 thanks WG9s_ 15:00:44 BAU from me too 15:01:26 how far are we in the road to Google WebComponents? 15:01:31 initial tabtracker implementation. 15:01:54 tomman I decided we need stylo for this and busy putting backports in 2.53. 15:02:49 Almost finished with 57 where this was inially working but unfortunately later rust version broke this hard so still on the way. 15:04:07 stylo is also the reason why 2.57 still needs rust 1.37 15:04:46 All crap but one application with a few devs against the world will again not bring in bonus points. 15:05:04 So just porting the stuff. 15:05:19 as time permits 15:08:16 AOB? 15:08:25 bau 15:08:54 frg wins an award for most "bau" in a meeting ;-) 15:09:44 rsx11m you see I am a boring guy and just chuck along with the tide. 15:09:59 8-) 15:10:34 or float with or on the waves? 15:10:52 it's all those fish 15:11:39 yes. Slapped time and time again. 15:15:28 next meeting September 5th? 15:15:54 okay, thanks for your time everyone 15:16:06 next meeting in 2 weeks time, same bat channel, same bat time 15:16:15 almost fall already... 15:16:20 rsx11m: yes 15:16:21 time flies :-p 15:16:24 that is labor day weekend here in the states 15:16:34 i will not be there 15:16:42 but perhaps that is a good thing 15:20:02 I'm around on either 5th or 12th 15:20:34 ok with me either way 15:20:46 5th is fine by me 15:23:47 let's keep it on the 5th then? 15:23:51 yep 15:24:01 i'm calling this a meeting 15:24:10 yepp2 15:24:40 WG9s_: happy BBQing 15:24:48 c u next time rsx11m 15:25:02 have fun 15:25:10 bye 15:25:19 Coming up next on SeaMonkey TV... 15:25:29 bish, bash, bop 15:26:16 Holly holiday IanN 15:26:16 ran out of bosh, so had to use bop 15:27:21 More: https://www.66batmania.com/trivia/bat-fight-words/ 15:28:11 ZLOPP! 15:28:35 none of my words were in the list :) 15:29:44 Yes unauthorized content it seems. 15:33:48 2 more: https://www.fastcompany.com/3055253/every-batman-fight-scene-onomatopoeia-in-one-alphabetical-gif 15:35:20 "GIF" 15:37:25 it can be requested as gif, but it looks like the document only mentions image/gif on a title text 16:42:30 So, Danbooru freezes SM/PM when you try to look at their Ruffle-enabled Flash posts 16:42:35 the proposed solution by someone? 16:42:41 https://danbooru.donmai.us/forum_posts/194017 16:42:49 "just block the Ruffle scripts" 16:42:56 ...yeah, that's hardly a solution 16:43:03 also, I don't run an script blocker 16:44:25 (also: if Tobin were here, he would eat that poor XP holdout alive) 16:45:22 tomman probably needs better wasm support. Not sure. Or is it custom elements again? 16:45:53 frg_Away: when I interrupt the script, I get this: https://pastebin.com/ngiFFz6L 16:46:08 I see no mentions of customElements anywhere, unlike in Ruffle's test pages 16:46:49 https://github.com/danbooru/danbooru/commit/c8d7f94d7e552d1c9dcb93b6f028490adaee9595 this is one of their recent Ruffle updates 16:47:42 tomman I see something similar with some third party seo tracking scripts. oracle.com is broken without a script blocker. Probably new google inspired code. 16:48:58 https://github.com/danbooru/danbooru/commit/55980c6fbf1d38dcb33e91c1b55380d72a8b6f2e the initial Ruffle commit 16:49:19 tomman: I suppose the scariest part in that pastebinned message might be "1:bignumber" 16:49:52 njsg: yeah, JS minimizers are a gift that keep giving on and on and on... 16:50:20 so easy to go read the code, isn't it? 16:50:31 bigint support is not yet in. Nur sure about bignumber. Probably also new. 16:50:51 frg_Away: I mean the locations in the code, line:column 16:51:09 FWIW, the only third-party tracking junk that Danbooru uses are a couple scripts from Cloudflare and "js-agent.newrelic.com" 16:51:18 (those two get blocked by my DNS adblocker) 16:51:34 amazingly they have resisted the temptation of WebComponents! 16:51:46 so the Ruffle bit caught me off-guard 16:51:51 njsg Ah possibly only a few megabytes js code :) 16:52:39 did the 2.57 devtools debugger have the ability to "unminify" the code? but that still requires opening the devtools debugger in that page. If the code weren't minified, I could just use the line and column numbers in any text editor. 16:53:39 njsg 2.57 debugger might be broken. I think they switched to e10s for it at least for chrome debugging. Unsure. Unminify it will not do I am sure. 16:53:53 > We're using Some Random Guy's unofficial NPM package for Ruffle, since the Ruffle project doesn't publish an official package themselves. We should build our own package. 16:53:57 :O 16:54:04 Usually copy paste into notepad++ and format. 16:56:23 and of course I want to download that stuff to try it locally: https://www.npmjs.com/package/ruffle-mirror 16:56:29 but That's Not How It's Done on NPMland 16:56:36 zipfiles? Nah, that's for dinosaurs 16:57:30 ir tells me it's about ~5MB of JavaScript (holy cow!), and 7 files 16:57:36 but I can't download anything of that anywhere 16:57:37 frg_Away: tomman: possibly customElements, indeed? https://github.com/ruffle-rs/ruffle/blob/HEAD/web/packages/core/src/source-api.ts createPlayer calls registerElement 16:58:21 https://github.com/ruffle-rs/ruffle/blob/HEAD/web/packages/core/src/register-element.ts#L62 16:59:17 "Install: npm i ruffle-mirror" 16:59:29 how about you just give me a zipfile I can unpack and test locally!? 17:00:03 I'm ABSOLUTELY AND POSITIVELY NOT INTERESTED into deploying a full-blown NPM setup on ANY of my machines, please 17:00:26 the AI detected you typed "I'm" "ABSOLUTELY" "POSITIVELY" "INTERESTED" 17:00:31 initializing installer... 17:01:05 I thought installers were for dinosaurs too... 17:02:43 it's made in flash 17:03:06 but requires realplayer to show a short animation 17:04:42 https://stackoverflow.com/questions/50933603/download-npm-dist-package-without-having-to-install-npm 17:04:59 OK, so I have to parse JSON with my brain, no biggie 17:05:03 and finally I got a tarball 17:05:47 seven files: but the most important ones seem to be ruffle.js and a big fat ~5MB wasm blob 17:05:57 will try bringing up a local test then 17:08:21 oh... 17:08:27 ...forgot how to embed Flash files on a webpage, because it has been THAT long... 17:08:32 it tries defining the custom element 999 times 17:09:47 oh wait, that's after it checks for window.customElements? 17:12:17 but I can't see the same check in https://danbooru.donmai.us/packs/js/130-61a5f0ed9a15966d0be6.js but perhaps it's in another file? 17:13:13 I managed to do a local test 17:13:16 I get no hang 17:13:18 instead 17:13:20 "Serious error encountered when polyfilling native Flash elements: Error: Failed to assign custom element ruffle-embed" 17:13:40 so indeed this thing wants customElements 17:33:14 OK, tried using the official WebComponents polyfill junk, and instead of Ruffle doing something, I get some vomit on my console 17:34:15 https://pastebin.com/BmwSb7Hs 17:34:27 I guess I'm misfit for the JS ecosystem :) 17:45:25 of course the one and only WebComponents polyfill that seems to exist is the official one 17:45:32 and it seems Ruffle doesn't like it 17:54:35 ...got it working! 17:54:50 don't try using Ruffle's "plug and play" legacy mode 17:54:58 instead just instance it through a script 17:55:08 it WILL take quite some time to load the SWF 17:55:20 https://www.npmjs.com/package/ruffle-mirror => use the JS API way 17:55:36 got it working with the standard Google WebComponents polyfills 17:57:09 for whatever reason interactivity doesn't work, tho. 18:07:49 I guess I should tell the Danbooru guys to just add the polyfills, just to be dismissed with the customary "update your browser!!!" BS :D 18:37:01 curiously enough, running the same Ruffle demo on FF78ESR complains with an "Something went wrong" box telling me that I Am Doing It Wrong™ by not using a web server because file:// has been deemed UNSAFE DANGER MINES by Google and friends 18:38:08 is it possible the ruffle code danbooru is using is older? I wonder if this explains why it loops instead of failing: https://github.com/ruffle-rs/ruffle/commit/a171883d3970e14d3ed57a25458cfb7fbac903d1 18:38:32 I also imagine the minified code might do something in a different way... 18:40:33 the older code handled NotSupportedError by incrementing the counter and continuing? 18:41:46 but if .customElements is not defined, it'd still throw 18:42:30 except the minified code appears not to throw it 18:44:22 tomman: I'm leaning towards older version, the minified version has for (;;) and at some point the code was while(true) 18:44:35 njsg: they have updated their dependency, but that hone hasn't gone live yet on the production site 18:44:41 --that one 18:44:59 https://github.com/ruffle-rs/ruffle/commit/20480ef6d8299646f4cb41953396924b95da302f#diff-8b806bf58cf7f08d300041ce39bb97169be1b46c2d38d0a94547b3b7f9123ded 18:45:32 this one is probably needed to break the loop - at that time *infinite* loop 18:46:31 * njsg wonders why is the number of tries 999 in the current version of the code, wouldn't that be too high? 18:47:02 but I don't do this kind of javascript programming, so I'm probably missing some context 18:50:51 https://github.com/ruffle-rs/ruffle/issues/3729 and as you mentioned XP: https://github.com/ruffle-rs/ruffle/issues/3568 18:51:37 https://jsfiddle.net/rjmhcpkq/ horriblehorriblehorrible 18:51:43 but that's how far I got 18:52:06 (the rolling "circle 9" should be clickable) 18:53:14 oooh, so it MIGHT have happened on Pale Moon too 18:54:43 the test file DOES work fine on FF78ESR, including interactivity and "the SWF should render inside the specified container, and not elsewhere!" 18:55:17 something screwy might be going on with the polyfills, I guess 18:56:16 but judging from the comments on those two bug reports, their idea of "polyfill" is "fallback to the Flash Player plugin" 18:56:44 in that case, the problem is that ruffle getting stuck in an infinite loop was preventing any kind of fallback 18:57:49 it's possible there are still other issues in ruffle 18:58:25 At least I went from "hangs my browser" to "it can play movies, but you can't interact with them" 18:58:37 worthy material for a bugreport for them 18:59:14 so it also needs shadow DOM? 18:59:52 (See the last sentence in the last comment in https://github.com/ruffle-rs/ruffle/issues/3729) 19:00:39 or is this actually considered a part of webcomponents? I need a dictionary for this :-P 19:01:34 it's part of WebComponents, indeed 19:01:39 both Custom Elements and Shadow DOM 19:02:16 hence why the official polyfills serve all that junk 19:02:35 oh, turns out that python3 -m http.server gives you an instant web server 19:02:41 now I can test properly on FF78ESR 19:02:55 and indeed the whole enchilada works fine, but then, the polyfills just get out of the way 19:03:07 Is that the module formerly (python2) known as SimpleHTTPServer? 19:03:10 yup 19:05:45 so even if the Danbooru folks accept bundling the polyfills, we would still end with broken Flash animations that don't really work 19:05:57 time to upload some screenshots 19:09:45 https://imgur.com/a/utn5sCv 19:11:00 ...and it had to be THAT old Flash video that made me enter into this wormhole 19:11:11 fitting for the mood (Javascript makes me feel like a baka) 19:12:39 Dumb idea: can you disable Web Components on Firefox to force the polyfills' usage? 19:13:30 ...nope, you can't 19:21:05 tomman dumber idea can you get the people who posted the flash video to post in a supported format? 19:21:14 difficult 19:21:23 that Flash is at least 15 years old 19:21:41 and the group that did those stopped doing Flash videos somewhere in the previous decade 19:21:49 oh 15 year old flash is not an issue 19:21:57 at this stage those Flash videos reached memetic status, so... 19:22:23 back when flash was origianl macromedia product was a usefull way to get animated content on the web. 19:22:41 most likely there are transcodes floating in the YouTubes of the world 19:23:01 but of course, they don't have the charm of those pixel-perfect unlimited-HD vector graphics 19:23:20 ..man, why noone ever came with a vector-based STANDARD video format for the Internet 19:23:22 ? 19:23:28 ...oh wait, that was Flash :/ 19:24:06 then adobe bought macromedia and decided to monetize flash and made it evil and added it new features that added a lot of vulnerabilities never in the original product. 19:24:23 a vector format for videos would have been killer for animation 19:24:40 it would have saved considerable bandwidth, and would have infinite resolution by design 19:25:20 adobe decided to provide a way to inject ads into flash playback that was frougt with vulnerabilities. 19:26:20 was not an ad in the flash was a wah that plying bavk a flash video wout fo to an adobe server to injeft ads 19:27:59 and it is adobes inabilit to fix those vulnerabilities which is why borwsers no longer support flash content. but I see the point a 15 year old flash thing should be able to be viewed. 19:28:05 yeah, Flash was fine when people used only for cartoons, adbanners, and simple games 19:28:25 then Adobe came in and tried to make it into a full blown OS 19:28:44 complete with more bugs than the city dumpster 19:29:08 there was a flash viewer not a paer that only permitted seeing those similar to the JavaScript pdf viewer. 19:29:44 there was a flash viewer not a player that only permitted seeing those similar to the JavaScript pdf viewer. 19:30:30 IIRC there was Gnash, which never went anywhere - it only supported simple old animations 19:30:38 (Flash 7 and under, perharps?) 19:30:52 then Mozilla stepped in with Shumway - whatever happened to it? 19:30:59 but then 15 years ago woul work 19:31:08 oth yes sumway 19:31:19 and the latest rage is Ruffle, complete with the latest hipster webjunk 19:31:31 shumway 20:00:14 > If you have a question about Ruffle, you can ask for help on our Discord chat: 20:00:33 since when Open Source Software projects decided that the only way to ask for help is Discord?!?!?! 20:00:50 the newer the project, the more likely is to only offer Discord as a support channel 20:03:42 OK, I have a final test to do before I file a bug with Ruffle regarding the polyfills 20:03:46 test with... ew, IE11 20:11:07 nope, IE11 doesn't support ES6 arrow operator, and you can't workaround that with polyfills 20:11:20 so I guess it's a "old Firefox"-specifc issue? 20:11:30 Ah well, I'll go and file the bug with Ruffle anyway 20:25:15 What was the Seamonkey release that finally dropped NPAPI support? 20:25:54 6 or 7 I think. 20:26:53 2.53.7 20:29:30 https://github.com/ruffle-rs/ruffle/issues/5118 done~ 20:29:48 now let's pray, bleed a chicken, or something 20:33:18 tomman It is SeaMonkey with a capital M :) 20:33:48 always forget it on IRC, but I always take care elsewhere~ 20:34:06 Hmmm, testing another SWF without interactivity renders it fine 20:34:09 with music et all 20:34:26 so I guess this could be workable, either at the polyfills side, or maybe even at Ruffle'sside 20:34:31 --Ruffle's side 20:39:09 gotta look if there are any alternative WebComponents polyfills, aside of Google's 20:44:06 Touhou is always a good excuse to debug issues with horrible code... NOT! 20:57:29 I think "horrible" might be better than "minified" 21:01:03 tomman: there is lightspark too, gnash and lightspark supported different versions of ActionScript, I think? Or of the AVM? 21:31:47 never heard of Lightspark 21:31:59 hmmm, they still target NPAPI 21:55:58 https://github.com/ruffle-rs/ruffle/issues/5118#issuecomment-903334611 21:56:20 in other words: "get lost, your browser is ancient Firefox" 21:58:30 also, new shiny WASM stuff, so yeah, "your browser is not old, but for us it's old" 22:05:34 https://github.com/ruffle-rs/ruffle/issues/5118#issuecomment-903336554 22:06:00 slightly less ominous answer, aka "we are all-in with this WebComponents stuff" 22:06:16 > This is actually quite unfortunate, as porting Ruffle to NPAPI would have actually been a good long-term option for targeting forks of old browsers that don't track web standards. 22:06:20 ...WTF!? 22:14:33 at that point wouldn't rust be just another flash player? 22:15:14 I'd say there should at least be some interest in understanding what precisely is breaking ruffle 22:15:20 do they have a list of features they require? 22:15:29 it's possible they have a bad check or lack a check somewhere 22:15:47 probably not as bad as looping infinitely if customElements aren't supported, but still problematic somehow 22:25:17 most likely they don't even have a list of features 22:25:41 other than "oooh, Chrome 125 introduced $NEW_FANCY_API,gotta use it!!!" 22:37:03 however, I don't discard the notion that the polyfills could be broken or lacking features 22:37:36 I mean, they're just a stopgap measure, and it's likely they barely receive any testing these days, for the same reasons 22:46:15 it's possible the shortfills have some issue, it's possible there's some other feature this relies on, and it's possible their code has a problem.